www.steinberg.net • View topic - Mixdown is out of sync when using Elastique algorithm

Since Cubase 6.0 ... now 7.5.10 ...

A basic function like Audio warpings ...

Is this a supposed professional DAW, or a Tesco product?

Yeah, this is a problem... The exports don't sound the same if you've used audio warping in your project. My solution has been to bounce all warped audio events before I export. I will usually duplicate my audio tracks and bounce the copies, in case I need to go back and make changes to the originals.

Pretty sure you'll find if you test properly that the result of this is still out of time.
My opinion after much testing is that there is no way to bounce elastique warped audio in time because it doesn't play in time in the first place.

So thats what the culprit is, I was wondering what the hell was going on!!!

You may be right. I haven't fully dived into this, because I rarely use audio warping. But it doesn't surprise me, because Cubase is full of bugs!

I was just told in another thread to create hit points on the warped file to lock it in.

Can you link to this thread please.....seems unlikely but willing to try anything.

Why do Steinberg hide behind anonymisness of this, why can't they put it on the list of known issues?

There's rumour that several years ago one moderator made one post saying something "it will get better", and since then the official Steinberg moderator policy when someone brings the topic up is to ban them, and maybe make all their posts disappear.

Steinberg growing a set and acknowledging the issue won't help fix it (or maybe it will, if it is then sent to the coders ), but it would go a long way towards healing the mistrust and disdain, and reversing the widespread opinion that all they are good for is kicking people off the forum who raise "troubling" questions.

July 2012 in the thread "Warped Files Bounce Inaccurately" it was said that the algorithm would be improved....however if you read through this thread the answers from the Steinberg guy still seem to be completely missing the point (or purposely avoiding it)

Well if Steinberg have acknowedged it, why won't they put it on the known issues list? Do they think that is a winning business model?

I'm happy to stay on C6.5 and use the money on other things instead of updating to C7. I don't need new shiny trinkets like DJ PadUltimate,or a 49th synth I don't use. I'd break out the credit card if they fixed the old problems. Maybe there are too many other people who feel otherwise, so they move ahead with a profitable, but arguably unethical, business strategy of charging for software with known malfunctions they won't acknowledge (... and actively work to hide).

A rotten smell from Hamburg, that is for sure.

The known issues list has been useless for as far as I can remember.
Steinberg's strategy regarding bugs is to remove all traces from their forums by deleting posts and threads or moving them to dark places in the forums where most users rarely if ever go, essentially keeping the main forum as clinically clean as possible.
Check for yourself, where would the following threads (random examples among a multitude) belong, presales (who would ever check there for program issues, this is for questions like "where should I put my dongle") or the main C7.x forum, especially considering they were started to collect hands-on info from the first 7.5 update users ...
7.5 - any fixes ?
7.5 keycommand focus
Obviously I can't link to all the deleted stuff, none of which contained any false claims, offensive language or similar btw, just discussion about the many unfixed heavy bugs in C7.x, making it the first main Cubase version I actually had to uninstall ever since I started with SX1 ...
This was when it became obvious C7.5 did not fix any of the critical issues, so it essentially marks another wasted year for development added on top of the wasted time with C7.
Like for you, me and most of the day in, day out Cubendo users I know it's still C6.5, or N5.5 for the Nuendo folks.
Check out the recent graveyard silence in the Nuendo forums ...

ymmv,
Rhino

I guess I got lucky and got a good copy of 7.5...

Now THAT is funny!

After almost 4 hours wasted today trashing preferences, removing hardware, removing plugs trying to figure out why my project suddenly kept on crashing, turns out it's the 1 note of pitch/transpose i applied to 1, yes 1 sound in the whole damn project using elastique audio

sometimes i feel like I complain too much about this product but it's clear that's not the case as every single problem i have there's a f##king thread about it. Steinberg are you actually listening?

To be fair, there are two types of complaints:
1. the system dependent complaints, about overall stability, performance etc. More often than not you can't really blame Steinberg alone for these (though other software often is more fault tolerant), and you certainly should not generalize going by a single system.
2. if a certain malfunction / bug can be reproduced identically on several systems, the ball is in Steinberg's field - unfortunately there is a boatload of stuff right now in 7.5 - what can you expect, they released an unfinished alpha version of 7.0 back then to meet the ominous X-Mas deadline, that's not how you write a good program. And much worse, they hardly did any serious bugfixing, and the few things they claimed to have fixed tragically were less than successful (7.06 "The windows configuration and layout of MixConsole is now fully captured and restored when using Workspaces" - rotflmao, brave claim !
Who wrote this obviously never ever used the program).

And finally, about people claiming not to have any problems - again, two types :
1. those that don't have any problems in general, ever - let them enjoy the honeymoon phase, when they finally start getting serious they'll see the (lack of) light.
2. if however somebody (who appears to be trustworthy) can't reproduce a certain issue you experience (and have provided a clear repro painting-by-numbers for), you should seriously consider having a system specific issue.

Unfortunately most long-standing complaints about 7.x are real Steinberg bugs, no two ways about it. The current crew doesn't seem to be capable of cleaning up the mess, or they don't care. Both is unacceptable ...

ymmv,
Rhino

this is not directed at you, Bobby, can't check your issue since I uninstalled 7.07 and was wise enough not to upgrade to 7.5, all the 7.0 bugs seem to have survived the .5 transition unharmed.
I'm sure one of the happy 7.5 fans can spare 5 mins to doublecheck your issue.

Sometimes it's best to just laugh instead of getting
I'm reading your post whilst waiting for my system to reboot after a major crash because i added a midi track, a midi track, one more time, a midi track

Cubase crashed every time I used a midi track for years, rendered my $2000 Roland XV 5080 useless!

Come to find out it was mM-audio shitty drivers! I emailed stieny and they told be to check the midi drivers and M-audio had just updated their shitty drivers! It was never Cubase fault...

Don't.
Just ........ don't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OueMVr9bKlQ

lol,
Rhino

Sometimes it's better to remove the wall than to keep on banging your head against it.
Old Chinese wisdom ...

lol, still waiting to get my project back up but this cheered me up a bit,

Feel a tiny bit naughty asking this question in this thread but then again i wouldn't be asking it if Steinberg fixed bugs and left things that worked in previous versions as they were.

Any hardcore Cubase users here get to Beta test Bitwig? I'm extremely interested in this product, can't wait to try it hence wanting to ask a few questions nobody ever asks as they're clearly Ableton users. And yes i know i can demo it at the end of the month for myself, i can't wait though, haha. Cubase 7 to me is like that girl you know you shouldn't be messing with anymore but, she lets you do a few things you can't do elsewhere as easily or the way you've become use to

I want to know if Bitwig has the following as I'm so damn use to it now,

software control room?
right click tool bar menu?
external instruments and hardware with pdc?
uad2 compatible?
something similar to Cubase arranger (i'm sure it does something similar but like to confirm)?
ability to upsample vst instruments on export?
folder tracks and lanes for recording several takes?

Thanks in advance

Remember those posts about how Steinberg is trying to change, and Guillermo is such a good guy?



Postby Guillermo at www.steinberg.net • View topic - [ISSUE]Mixdown out of sync when using Elastique algorithm . Please notice the date ... » Tue May 27, 2014 1:20 pm




So, let's just take a step back and look at things here:

1) This bug has been present since Cubase 5 ... 6 years.
2) Steinaberg has known about this all this time.
3) For about 4 of those years, they dealt with the bug by ... banning people who spoke about it, deleting posts. Great customer service model that!
4) Now they deal with it by ... banning people who speak about it. But wait - grate improvement - they put it in the "issues forum".
5) But STILL ... it cannot be moved to the "collected issues forum" because ... they have not assigned a " ... correct R-XXXXX number" to it! heh
6) And why not ...



These guys are absolutely fusbing INCREDIBLE!!!!

I will use Cubase 6.5 until one of the others gets to the point that it is markedly better ... then switch over. Stone Mountain is dead to me, and apparently to a lot of other users too. Good luck with that Loop Mash ... that is a real THING!!! ... wow, what an incredible music creation tool!

Hello,

#21, Actually, thank you for bringing this up. It has been moved to the Collected Issues forum.
Here is the longest thread about this issue: www.steinberg.net • View topic - [R-6259]Mixdown out of sync when using Elastique algorithm

Please read our official statement on that thread.
You are free to keep discussing this on our forum, just search for the duplicated threads.

Best regards,
GN

6 years is nothing... turtles are like really old... and there's always loopmash...

Right, so here's the link he supplies in his post above, from Steinberger's reply via our favorite guest moderator, Mr. Guillermo N!




********************************************

Re: [R-6259]Mixdown out of sync when using Elastique algorit

Postby Guillermo » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:00 pm
Hello all,


There where so many duplicated reports about this issue linked to each other that it took me a couple of hours to find the father of them all.

We have a developer ready to work on this, but this is a pretty complex fix.
It has to be discuss together with Zplane as it seems there is also work on their side that needs to be done.
This is a huge task, we are ready to work on it but it can only be performed once Zplane delivers something new to us.

Best regards,
GN

**********************************************

These guys on Stone Mountain are FAST!!! All it took was some due diligence on their part (I personally don't think 5-6 years to confirm a bug is overly cautious, there was every reason to believe the scores of posters who helpfully pointed out the same bug could have been part of a conspiracy to make Steinberg look bad, or they possibly could even have been suffering from some paranoid sort of IMP ("InternetMassPsychosis.net"), maybe NOW it's clear why they tried to ban them all. Of course it's to be expected they weren't able to ban ALL of them, there were so many, but I think it can be well-agreed they did a good job of trying).

OK, before getting down on our good friends in Hamburg, let's look at the facts: Zplane won't help them out to fix the bug!! If only they would, the programmer Steinberg have allocated could have START to work on this! It's NOT STEINBERG'S FAULT!!! It's just really bad luck that they are the only DAW whose coding can't support Zplane's Elastique. And really, it's not up to them to think of alternative ways they could move forward. They are just a small company, staffed 95% with managers and marketing department experts, LET'S NOT BE UNREASONABLE!!!

And it's CLEARLY not their responsibility to remove their "INDUSTRY-LEADING!! TIME CORRECTION!!" claims from their marketing. That would be against their ethos of selling as many units as possible to new and unsuspecting customers, no matter how faulty the product.

So - all you lot whinging on about how they can't do this or that, and "I paid for this!!", get a life, and try to look at it from GUILLERMO AND STEINBERG'S POINT OF VIEW FOR ONCE!!!

Thank you

In heavy debates I've brought up the fact that all daw can't sound the same with one has a broken pitch shifter.

At any rate I'm demoing Protools 11 and I own Protools 8 and Logic X so I feel strongly about Cubase being a great daw. They all have really bad things about them but Cubase features are second to none.

Ive decided to use Kontakt for all pitch shifting task, well I love Vari-Audio tho!