I have the Model 16 after returning the Model 12. I wanted to use the 12 together with a Tascam 16x08 I have. Drum mics in the 16x08 etc. As a PC guy I wasn't able to successfully do an "Aggregate Device" setup like on a Mac. So, I sent it back for a 16. So, Now I'm using an Iconnectivity midi2+ for my Midi In/Out and using a cheap Droid phone with Apps as remote Transport while sitting at the Drums tracking....

That's part of the reason I invested in a Radar and an analog desk. I didn't like the feeling of facing a computer screen all day long. I didn't like mixing the senses...sight with sound. It's especially not good for someone trying to learn about listening.

I'm actually very glad I went the way I did. It really forces a person to play and perform, or you get nothing.

The only thing I miss about the computer is the eq and automation.

Pyeguy,

I totally agree on all points.

I really wanted the 24 when it first came out but I also wanted to get better at my craft
of songwriting and better understanding my sequencer on my Roland Fantom.

I do not miss the PC/MAC moving notes and obsessing eq etc.

Playing skills is paramount to live performance.

I want to achieve that goal this year as I have already done the studio thing.

Cheers

I don't miss computer based recording/mixing either. I still do use the computer/DAW to alter stereo files, but only once they're done recording and mixing on my (mostly) analog setup.

I see myself as a musician/songwriter that's also recorded/worked with a few bands.

I have limited editing capabilities. I record, play and sing parts 'all the way through'. I don't use loops, samples, etc. Everything is recorded 100 percent off the floor. No autotune. It has to be re-recorded until it sounds ok or in tune. I try to get things sounding as compelling as I can with pure performance...and some mixing effects, etc.

I don't have clients. This is just for me at this point. I basically use my recording system to lay down song ideas.

I did think about the ability to use an alternative midi device of some kind to get midi in/out of the DAW as a solution for the Model 16 & Model 24 since it doesn't have that onboard like the Model 12, so not too great of a let down there. Too bad the same thing couldn't be done for getting digital audio, either s/pdif or ADAT In/Out of the DAW in the same way, at least not on a PC.

Being that Tascam made an update to the Model 24 (likely the Model 16 too) so that it's transport buttons can at least start/stop a DAW (nothing more, unfortunately AFAIK), but I'm sure your Android app likely has more capabilities though.

While I like the layout and workflow of the Model 24 (aside from having only 2 inserts), my unit has had major issues with quality control. I have had to send it back to Tascam 3 times. They replaced it with a refurbished model twice. I bought it new so they should have given me a new one. This went on for over 6 months. There were long periods of time where I was without anything to record with. Their customer service was absolutely horrible! I will never buy another Tascam product. I primarily use outboard preamps, Rupert Neve, Aurora Audio and Phoenix Audio. I just picked up an Audient ID44 MK2 and I am noticing a huge improvement in recording quality. I thought my recordings on the Tascam were sounding pretty good, but they are lifeless compared to the things I've done with the Audient. I assume that it must come down to the converters. Now that I finally seem to have a working Model 24, I'll keep it to use as a studio mixer and an easy way to track rough ideas, but any serious recordings that I do will go through the Audient. The ID44 Mk2 is easily expandable. I have no experience with it, but you might also want to look at the SSL Big Six.

When I hit this wall, I download Audacity, get hands on a cheap interface, and down get to it.

Yeah, customer service at large has taken a hit since Covid. But many companies are holding it up pretty well. I have no Tascam stuff, so don't know there.

I've used a lot of converters, from Behringer to Antelope to MOTU, RME, Avid, Focusrite, etc... and have never experienced this.Used a TASCAM unit for just a few weeks as a loaner while the Orion was on backorder, but didn't notice lifeless audio coming from it. It was very OK. When the Orion went in, it was not like... "WOW! That sounds so much better!" I do think that the analog electronics in interfaces can make notable differences.

If I was looking to retool a small project studio, I'd have a hard look at this, yeah.

Bot or shill?

Has anyone compared to the 12MTK and 22MTK of Soundcraft, or Mackie Onyx 16 or 24? All are analogue mixers with multi-track USB.

Exactly this ^^^

Your cheap digital recorder will have vastly lower noisefloor and better fidelity than a multi million dollar studio from not too long ago.

The most important aspect of good sound is the space you record in and the engineering. Gear is becoming incredibly irrelevant as it's all so good these days.

Can anyone shed light on this?

Is the signal flow of the Tascam 24 100% analog?

Is this only the case when one is not also recording channels to SD?

Or is it possible to use the main stereo out to record to tape, while also recording the tracks digitally to the built-in SD at the very same time?

Also, Behringer make the professional Xenyx line of analog mixers with built-in audio interfaces. Engineering wise, regardless of price, the features, preamps and audio quality of Xenyx line of analog mixers are far ahead of anything the Tascam Model series have to offer. In terms of creative cosmetics and looks the Tascam Model series take they cake but it matters not when the features aren't their. Xenyx analog mixers offer very usable onboard effects plus "inserts, EQ bands, aux sends/returns, monitor mixes/talkback, post fader/EQ" and printing EQ is possible and live mixdowns are a breeze. All this is also true with Behringer's digital mixers too. Assuming the producer/mix engineer actually has some talent and knows what he/she is doing and not an idiot, and assuming they purchased the Xenyx mixers brand new, use only high quality audio cables (as recommended in all beginning pages of Behringer manuals) and the mixer's AC power supply comes from a voltage regulator/power conditioner/line filter unit (Furman, Tripplite, APC...etc), you will like have a workhorse at your disposal with huge amazing audio quality results every time that pretty much rivals whatever you want. I know all this directly from daily personal experiences.

Hello AI bot :-)

Tha f*ck? Am no damn ai bot, lol. What I said is true because I have use with many gears of different brands! In my assessment, audio engineering war is the game Behringer likes to play at targeting price points and they're almost impossible to beat. The specs of the preamps on the Xenyx analog mixer alone are still hard to beat and probably has no worthy rival. Imo from critical listening and comparing them, Xenyx preamps way better than the Midas designed preamps (which are already superb btw), and they are way better than uad's offering, way ahead of SSL's offering. Audient preamp on the ID14 series comes close but they only match Midas designed preamps. The audio quality from the Xenyx preamps are exactly like the sound quality you'd expect from a high-end and mastering grade units because they are! And Behringer found a way to basically give it away at such affordable prices. It is not a price war, it is audio engineering war, period!

Not all Xenyx mixers have audio interfaces - many only have ADC on the mix bus - and the Xenyx pre's are pretty nasty affairs - bearable at clean levels but fall apart badly when you hit them hard. The later Midas branded mic-pres on their interfaces and the mixer are far nicer. I've always really liked the sound of Tascam pre's - Although I must admit tobnever hearing the ones in the Model xx mixers.

oh is that all?
man, I would absolutely hate to work without EQ and automation.

I guess the reason, most people don't get the unearthy quality of those Behringer preamps, is that they connect dusty old garbage mics like for example those Neumann U47s to it, instead of trying it with a decent Behringer C-1.

That post is from 20 months ago. I am fully back ITB and loving it. All of my mixes on Youtube and other recorded songs were done ITB...including the soundcloud clip in my sig.

I still have my Radar/Analog mixing desk but it's currently stored away in the basement.

I've plugged different brands of mics in my Xenyx preamps directly and indirectly and those Xenyx boards are so transparent you here exactly the mojo, tone, color, character or whatever your chain is doing before hitting those pres. Most people suffer from self-inflicted chronic Behringer bashing and likely never even owned one of their products nor even owned any other high priced competitive products where they actually did a used mix/mixdown and printed the stereo mix or tracked out mix/stem for comparison or that the mix engineer can send for mastering (or self master). Those Xenyx mic pres have damn good transparency and sounds exactly like the source and no one will ever know an engineer mixed it on those Barry gears, lol!

So, I take it you never owned an actual a brand new Xenyx analog mixer that was connected to a well treated ac power source, registered with Behringer and strictly only used high quality audio cables and accessories? Can you list those Xenyx products that "only have ADC on the mix bus"?

Why do you need all these stipulations about cables etc? Is there something wrong with the mixer? My little Xenyx mixer I use for krapioki gigs etc (the Xenyx QI1222USB) only has two bus ADC - as do all the others around it in the range as far as I remember from investigating them when I bought it. I bought it as a throw away mixer and it's lasted well. But top-end sounding it isn't - which is not surprising given the budget price - although it's not bad as long as you don't drive the pre's too hard.

Far ahead of Tascam? So, they are perhaps right up there with Neve and SSL? Your post is absolute nonsense because it's all subjective. As for fearures you should research the Tascam model series a little more because they have a number of features the Xenyx line doesn't have. I could detail it here, but I suggest you go read up on them.

I use a model 12 and the preamps are quite good. That said I also use my 500 series Neve, CAPI and Cranborne for color into the 12 inserts bypassing the 12 pre's. But the Tascam pre's are transparent and have enough gain.

Correction: I think you meant Xenyx QX1222USB. So, for a device to qualify as an USB audio interface the device must have both ad/da chips implemented, so I don't get what you're talking about. Also, "budget price" shouldn't determine how you treat a well made professional product (regardless of price), or how you treat any audio tool for that matter. The problem seems to be in your own expression as your statement precisely suggested you treat your equipment like garbage: "I bought it as a throw away mixer"? That disposition also suggests you are highly inexperienced. Even your question about audio cables suggests you're inexperience and have a poor approach to gear maintenance. So, many folks treat their equipment like absolute s*hit because they lack very basic and elementary pro audio maintenance ethics, etiquette and know-how. Even worse, they may not even be interested. Talent mixed with a knack for finding creative ways to achieve best quality representation of your creative expression goes a long way. The manual which comes with Xenyx mixers specifically states: "Use only high-quality professional speaker cables with 1/4" TS or twist-locking plugs pre-installed". https://www.manua.ls/behringer/xenyx...usb/manual?p=2

Please detail what features the Tascam Model series have over Xenyx analog mixers don't have. Tascam Model series look good and that's about it. In terms of audio quality and routing possibilities, Tascam's offers stands no chance.

So, yes sir, Xenyx preamps are far ahead of anything offered in the Tascam Model series of mixers. Even if I was being subjective I've owned Tascam products featuring their Ultra-HDDA preamp and they are sound very nice. Yet, in comparison to my Xenyx preamp, they are so far ahead of Tascam's offering that there's almost no need for the comparison. My Xenyx preamp performed way better than my Audient ID14 preamps to bits and I really like my ID14 preamp and still use them (excellent recording unit without breaking the bank)!

I wouldn't hurt you to pick up a brand new X1204USB from Sweetwater and put it up against your Neve and other pricey pre's you may own and post the results.

Here, I'll make it easier for you to get an idea of what how that might turn out and what I mean when I say Behringer isn't pre-occupied with the price game, they are pre-occupied with serious competitive pro audio engineering at unbeatable price points.

https://rumble.com/v3ix9a0-september-19-2023.html
https://rumble.com/v3ixu5q-september-19-2023.html
https://rumble.com/v3ixuuu-september-19-2023.html

Would you rather build a house with a hammer and hand saw or use power tools?

I'd rather buy a house.

Yep - you got me - I've only been messing around in studios for about 50 years. I (mostly) make up my own cables.

and yes it's a throwaway mixer for rough pub/krapioki gigs - if it gets trashed by some lager lour vomiting over it - I'd throw it away and buy a new one.


What I'm getting at is calling them an interface does imply (in this day and age) multi (over two!) channel operation (like the Tascam Model NNs) ie the ability to track as many individual channels as there are discrete inputs. All the Xenyxs I'm aware of just have 2x2 on the master bus and old well past it conversion at that - and I'm not one to normally obsess over convertors - most modern converters do an amazing job, it's been a long time since bad converters were made - the majority of Xenyx mixer range do not have modern converters and sound a bit grainy and, well, digital - which is not surprising as half of the Xenyx mixer range still have 16bit/44.1kHz converters (believe it or not!) which puts them firmly in the "toy town" category and the rest are only 16/48! When did anybody doing anything serious last rely on 16 bit conversion? Even my little sketch-tool Zoom R8 does 24/48! Are you seriously calling this obsolete junk an equivilant to Tascam's 24bit/48kHz 12/16/24 (respectively) channel conversion? Xenyx mixers are great value for money and do a solid job as budget live mixers - but purlease! 16bit conversion? I wouldn't let the conversion aspect of them anywhere near one of my recordings - and I certainly wouldn't consider anything limited to 16/44 ot 16/48 to be an interface today as it's not fit for purpose.

Workflow that allows me to record with no computer, the Behringer doesn't come close to the Model 12 in this regard. Another is bringing USB returns on all channels back in to the mixer, and to setup DAW control, the Xenyx doesn't come close.

I could care less about preamps. I have never bought an interface for it's pre's. I'd like to see Behringer come out with something that would directly compete with the Model 12.

[QUOTE=U_CREATOR;16688814]Please detail what features the Tascam Model series have over Xenyx analog mixers don't have. Tascam Model series look good and that's about it. In terms of audio quality and routing possibilities, Tascam's offers stands no chance.
/QUOTE]

So, these mixers USB audio are 16bit. How on earth can you be saying they have higher audio quality than the Tascam's? Why would any company build 16-bit converters into their products in the 21st century?

Sir, am nowhere near 50 years of "messing around in studios". I'd rather take 10 good years learning, refining and reinforcing the fundamentals.

Again, you make a lot of what seems like cycles of redundant non-existent gear beef, just for the sake of going back n' forth, and it hint further as one who is very inexperience. Here's a technician tip that might blow your top: 16-bit 44.1khz/48khz are mastering-grade conversion rates.

Have a good sir!