Originally Posted by M50k ➡️

No panning with the Onno; all four panned hard left/right.

Originally Posted by M50k ➡️

A 1984 article in Modern Recording magazine claimed Onno himself set the outer pair 12dB lower.

One one thread here, someone (I don't remember who) said they always got the best results with all at equal gain.

Myself, I've always set them by ear each time.

Mark Donahue has commented here on his extensive use of it, but has never said what relative gains he uses.

Originally Posted by mpdonahue ➡️

Onno set the gain equally amongst all the microphones. I do the same. This where the placement becomes very important. You need to find the correct distance and height where the image balances both front to back and left to right. Unfortunately the only way to get this right is to listen and adjust.
When Onno used spots, he would always start out by bring up the spot till he could hear it and then immediately dropping it 12 dB. I suspect that something was lost in translation.
All the best,
Mark

Originally Posted by dtf ➡️

Hi Mark,
Do you know if Onno made sure that all mics were exactly on one line? I am asking because I used to be pedantic about that but, recently, I have begun moving the inner pair forward just a few centimeters and preferred this.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by mpdonahue ➡️

Dirk,
Normally all the microphones were on a 3m straight bar. I don't think that moving the inner pair in a couple of cm is a big deal. The advantage of the straight bar is that it is easy to adjust the array and maintain the relationship.
All the best,
Mark

Originally Posted by M50k ➡️

In case Mark didn't have it handy:
(Mic in the middle unrelated.)

Originally Posted by dtf ➡️

Thanks, but that is not what was used on a stand during sessions, correct?

Originally Posted by dtf ➡️

Hi Mark,
Thanks! Do you have any extra info about or picture from that bar, by any chance? I only know the system they use at Polyhymnia for hanging (basically 2 boompoles with a middle piece) and else I have only seen the array on 3 stands...

Originally Posted by mpdonahue ➡️

We have made about 6 different variations of the bar, from basic 5/8 threaded pipe to fancy welded aluminum tubes with Lemo connectors to connect to Servo Reelers.
If I were doing it today, I'd get 3x 1m K&M 15mm extension poles and some fittings.
K&M 1m 15mm rod
Clamps with 3/8-16 threads
If you look around there are hundreds of different mount types for 15mm pipes from the camera industry. You can also do it with 15mm carbon fiber tube, but the cost goes up geometrically.
All the best,
Mark

Originally Posted by dtf ➡️

Thanks so much, Mark!

I found a lot of mic holders that fit a 15mm bar but have been browsing like a mad man to find a clamp that will securely hold the bar to the stand (at the middle of the entire bar).

Sorry to bug you again with this, but is there anything you can recommend? A bit of wiggling is okay, but if the bar wiggles too much when I move the stand it will make me (and everyone else!) nervous with expensive instruments nearby... :-)

Originally Posted by dtf ➡️

Thanks so much, Mark!

I found a lot of mic holders that fit a 15mm bar but have been browsing like a mad man to find a clamp that will securely hold the bar to the stand (at the middle of the entire bar).

Sorry to bug you again with this, but is there anything you can recommend? A bit of wiggling is okay, but if the bar wiggles too much when I move the stand it will make me (and everyone else!) nervous with expensive instruments nearby... :-)

Originally Posted by mpdonahue ➡️

We have made about 6 different variations of the bar, from basic 5/8 threaded pipe to fancy welded aluminum tubes with Lemo connectors to connect to Servo Reelers.
If I were doing it today, I'd get 3x 1m K&M 15mm extension poles and some fittings.
K&M 1m 15mm rod
Clamps with 3/8-16 threads
If you look around there are hundreds of different mount types for 15mm pipes from the camera industry. You can also do it with 15mm carbon fiber tube, but the cost goes up geometrically.
All the best,
Mark

Originally Posted by voltronic ➡️

I have been looking everywhere for a 15mm rod clamp that has a 3/8"-16 male screw. Thank you so much for this link!

For another rod option, I really like the look of these 5/8" rod sets from 9.solutions. The connecting piece is really nice because you have your attachment to your stand already integrated without needing a center clamp. I wonder if their diameter is really 5/8" (just under 16 mm) or that's just a nominal designation and they are actually closer to 15 mm. Regardless, I would imagine that <1 mm would make much difference in clamps fitting.

Amazon (all 5 sizes)
B&H 500 mm


B&H 750 mm
B&H 1000 mm

(I'm a big fan of the brand in general, and the Savior Clamp has been a definite upgrade from other clamp options.)

Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️

It's a bit perplexing though...the B+H photos show a pair of rods for each discrete length sold, but the text implies a "set" is a single rod plus a threaded connector end.

So, do you get 2 rods or one... per set ?

Originally Posted by voltronic ➡️

I'm not sure what gives you that impression from B&H. The overview and description text say "rods" (plural) multiple times, and if you look at the specs, the total package weight is more than double that of an individual rod. So a "set" is definitely 2 rods plus 1 connector. That is confirmed on the manufacturer site, Amazon, etc.

Originally Posted by dtf ➡️

Thanks so much, Mark!

I found a lot of mic holders that fit a 15mm bar but have been browsing like a mad man to find a clamp that will securely hold the bar to the stand (at the middle of the entire bar).

Sorry to bug you again with this, but is there anything you can recommend? A bit of wiggling is okay, but if the bar wiggles too much when I move the stand it will make me (and everyone else!) nervous with expensive instruments nearby... :-)

Originally Posted by Arthur Stone ➡️

Have you tried the 6060? I'm not sure it follows that if the capsule is smaller it must be noisier: not my experience anyway. Did you hear the audio examples I posted with the review? My experience is that the 6060 is much less noisy than the 4060. I heard no noise at all. IME it's a very good mic for music. I wish I had one to keep.

Originally Posted by Arthur Stone ➡️

With respect, I think you'd need to physically compare the mics yourself to understand that the published specs are only a guide and not a rule of practical application. The self-noise is just one spec too; in context with the other specs, it gives an indication that the performance is as I described.

I mention this in the review (below the specs section):

I don't expect anyone to take my word for it but also I'm just honestly reporting my findings.

Interestingly (after reading your post and post my own review) I read that Simon Clark at Resolution Magazine had a similar experience/impression independently to mine:

TBH I didn't read any of the specs (or reviews) prior to writing the 6060 review (I didn't actually have the time to as it was an unexpected 'rush job'); I go on vibe and intuition about the gear. It's noteworthy that Richard Brooker says:

Which is basically what I've said too.
Don't shoot the messenger, please.