Hello,

I have to record a athipic orchestra. It's composed of 15 South french Galoubet-Tambourin (tambourine galoubene) accompanied by a string quartet and a piano.
The recording will be done in a room of a castle, so with a little reverberation.

The galoubet-tambourin is a Provençal instrument composed of a very treble recorder with and a drum with a string on the skin.



Could you help me with placement of musicians and miking.

Microphones available:
- 2x Shoeps MK2s OMNI
- 2x Neumann KM184 CARDIO
- 4x LineAudio CM3 WIDE CARDIO

I had the idea of ​​a main stereo OMNI pointing the galoubet-tambourines groupe and the quartet in front of them, and the piano behind the spot microphone (KM184).

I thought put also spot microphones on the galoubet-tambourine and on the quartet cause of the room reverberation.
But I only have Lineaudio (wide cardio). I do not know if there are goods spot microphone cause diagram and because of the proximity of the galoubets with the quartet.

See the diagram:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4vmr58a21...20son.jpg?dl=0

Thank you.

Hi, this is a "drum line" with spot piano strings and a reverberent space. There are many threads here about micing a drumline. Get a rehearsal recording and don't obsess about what others might do better. You're on the right path, good luck and tell us how it went,
BRgds,
WalterT

Which compositions are planned and by which composers?

Dança à Provençau (traditional Provençal dances) use two rows of Galobet-Tamborin in a procession and then a flattish U shape with dancers in front.

Telemann or Rameau compositions, for example, are often performed with the Galoubet-Tambourin (creating an almost V shape) either side of the orchestra (seated in the middle), with the piano or harpsichord behind.

Thanks for answering.

@ audibell , my problem is not the drums but the musicians and microphone placement. How to place spot microphone without obtaining a degradation of the sound due to the phase problem


@ reynaud , Musics are arrangements. I'll get more information tomorrow.

A few months ago, I realized a test with galoubets-tambourine and piano.
I placed a main omni microphone between the galoubets-tambourine and the piano, pointing the microphone towards the galoubets-tambourine.

What do you think about the sound ?





My current problem is that in the new recording there is the same musicians but with an extra string quartet. I don't know where place the quartet because I'm afraid the strings are too strong or the galoubets-tambourin are too strong.
If I use spots microphones in addition to the main microphones, the spot microphones will be too close to one another (2 meters) because the musicians are close

Not the best acoustic to judge, but the piano, to my ear, is perhaps a little too present in the balance, instead preferring it to play a more supportive role. The snare rattle of the Tamborin is also too apparent (overpowering the drum resonance), not providing the Galobet dominance, but again, that may well be due to the acoustic space.

This looks and sounds like the sort of ensemble that needs space and a large room to breathe in...an amphitheatre outdoors would be even better !

Think about miking an organ in a church or cathedral..the room is a pivotal part of the sound. Mike the room rather than the ensemble, but still find enough immediacy and attack..so not too far away. Too close is like dissecting an animal in a medical lab.

Yes, despite the main microphones directed towards the galoubets-tambourines, the piano is too strong. The two spot microphones on the piano (shown on the video) have not been used.

Therefore, it is rather the Galoubets that need spot microphones. But with the quartet in addition, how to place the spot microphones and how many ?
Any idea ?

Thursday, I'll visit the room where we will record. It's a room in a castle with a little reverb. I'll do a test with just one galoubet-tambourin and piano.

With the quartet, it depends if they are they to provide textural colour, or whether they are carrying the essential backbone of the melody.

They could easily be drowned out by the attack of the percussion...but if they are accompaniment only this might be appropriate (and intended) ?

So the intention of the piece, the arrangement, will dictate where they are situated in the space, and how prominent they need to be. A simple ORTF pair should focus them enough, if you wanted to highlight them as a section within the larger ensemble.

They are likely to be placed in front of the main group...so it's possible your main central miking will capture enough of them, without additional spots ? The castle acoustic will assist in 'glueing' the assorted elements together...but beware that omni miking may capture too much wash of ambience, so perhaps regular or wide cardioid mics will tame this percussive slap delay somewhat ?

This will very much be room dependent, as this will affect the placement of each instrument before even thinking of microphone placement.

In larger spaces (with more flexibility in terms of instrument placement), the arrangement outlined above is usually employed.

I went to the castle today to do a little test.

Test NEUMANN - NEUMANN KM184 (AB 34cm) main microphones between the piano and the galoubet-tambourin (microphones directed towards the galoubet, the piano behind the microphones, with LINEAUDIO CM3 spots)

Test SCHOEPS1 - SCHOEPS MK2s (AB 34cm) main microphones between the piano and the galoubet-tambourin (microphones directed towards the galoubet, The piano behind the microphones, without piano spots) - NEUMANN KM184 - AB 34cm


Test SCHOEPS2 - SCHOEPS MK2s (AB 34cm) main microphones. The Piano and the galoubet-tambourin are side by side. No spots microphone used.

Just a brief listen on earphones, the Neumann sample is closest.

In which castle is the performance planned to be? How large is the performance space?

la Copa Santa never tires:
Copa santa,
E versanta,
Vueja a plen bòrd,
Vueja abòrd
Leis estrambòrds
E l'enavans dei fòrts !

Here the castle picture :

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/db...0_1280_s_2.jpg

The room dimensions are ca 8m x 8m

Do you mean the Neumann is better ?

The Neumann is the closest to a good balance between performers.

Are you based in Marseille? Is this recording in connection with Musée du terroir marseillais?

Are you french ?

I'm not based in Marseille but it's possible that the recording session will be in a room of the Musée ? Do you know ?

The test was done in an empty room, with just 2 musicians but the recording will be done with more than 15 musicians. The reverb will be less.

If the neumann balance is better, what placement of musicians will be the best?
Do you think it would be better to put a main stereo microphone or just spots microphone to the different groups of musicians (Galoubets, Quartet, piano) by placing them in the 4 corners of the room(The farthest from each other) ?

The problem of this room is that it is small and a cardioid microphone records a lot sound of an instrument placed at the other end of the room.
Mixing all spot cardioid microphones will give phase issues.

While my family is originally from Avinhon, and the surround farming areas of Vauclusa, French wasn't ever spoken in the home, rather a rural "Rodanenc" dialect.


Simplest is often better, don't overthink. Start with the musicians, place them so that they are firstly comfortable and then ensure that all performers are able to hear each other without straining.

Start with the simplest micing approach, and then just emphasise that which is lacking in the final musical balance.

How small is the room the final recording will take place in?

Is there video involved?

Nice to meet you Reynaud !

I don't have a video. The room measures ca 8m x 8m and has a high ceiling with ogive and openings without doors.

And you.


I meant the performance won't have a video recording? So you don't have to worry about mics on camera.


Any chance of doing a recording with all the musicians prior to the recording date?

Unfortunately, no, I just have an hour to install the D day and a few minutes to do tests

I've found a video of the room

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1I2EN7LjQk

If it's an apethetic orchestra, they probably don't care.

What?

Oh...

Never mind.