That's disappointing.

For me, the issue wasn't so much the key width (I don't mind reaching from C-F instead of C-Eb...) but the key LENGTH. If I'm playing C-G-D on one hand, my index or middle finger is usually towards the top of the G key, especially if I play C-G-Eb... On keyboards that are not as deep, that finger ends up on the casing and not on a key!

Anyone else have THIS problem?

Got my Nektar LX61 today(Keystation still delayed in the mail...).

- 32 13/16" key width.
- Keys are light, not very weighted at all. I can see this keyboard causing me wrist/finger pain, from lack of action weight.
- Black keys seem a bit more sensitive than whites(similar to V61, but nowhere near as bad), so if you press black+white together with equal force, the white notes seem softer volume.
- After changing to velocity curve 3 or 4, the actual velocity output is acceptable, I would say.
- The board itself is flat and square, not slanted. I like it.
- Key plastic feels good. I like it.
- Some keys feel slightly lighter than others.. It actually feels like the weighting is graded!
- Pads are fairly stiff, I can't see myself using them.

So, if the action on the Keystation is significantly better, I will likely return the LX61, or return both, if the Keystation's keys are too thin :( Yamaha YPG-235 kit, otherwise, and no more MIDI controller BS for me!

Edit: Went back to Guitar Center today, and tested all the keyboards again; Yamaha YPG-235 will be my final choice. The key response is fantastic(!), although the action is a bit on the light side. Casio WK-6600 was a close 2nd place, but the key response is not as good, and the internal sounds are much "cheaper" sounding/toy-like. All the keys on all the mainstream MIDI controller keyboards just. suck.

Wondering if there's anything new on the VI61 front. Has the editor software been released yet?

Any firmware updates allowing for semitone transpose?

Considering this, the LX61 and axiom air 61 at the moment. Any thoughts appreciated.

Just an update to my own question. Heard back from Alesis and I'm told you can semitone transpose using the editor software.

My assumption is that one can make this adjustment (and others) even after loading a project with the editor. Can anyone confirm that this is the case?

Also, any comparisons with the LX61 keybed? I see that it's synth action and I prefer semi-weighted. Is the keybed decent?

if it's only software transpose, heck, you're better off just transposing the MIDI notes in your DAW after you record them.

@LX61 (impact/nektar):

Own it, love it, use it all the time. But keep in mind:

-It's a budget board. It's not semi-weighted keys. The keys don't feel as good as the impulse 49 I have, but nektars integration is LIGHT YEARS over novation for reason or studio one (even though I refuse to associate with presonus anymore)
-No expression pedal.
-The pads are not bad, but if you turn the keyboard off, it resets and does not remember the settings. The pads default to a setting I do not like. (there may be a way to save a snapshot or something that I just never took the time to learn.
-No ableton support directly (though apparently it's not hard to setup)

Still, for my needs (drums, keys, synths) it really suits me. Someday I'll get the P6

My assumption is that it will output the midi transposed. I use cubase so using the input transformer to do this is possible but a pain since I would have to set it up on every channel.

I should have one coming in next week. In the meantime, I gave the LX61 a shot:

Keys are synth action with slightly more resistance than typical synth action keys. They don't feel too bad, much better than you'd find on an oxygen 61 for example, but worse than the a800 pro. The way they travel, they feel like they should have aftertouch, though they don't. I wasn't a fan of the velocity curves. Tried all 4 settings with piano and the combination of the synth action and piano just didn't quite do it for me. I've used a m-audio 61es for a while now after trying most of the others (novation, akai, arturia). I would have kept my SL61 if it wasn't for automap. Arturia keys feel like they will break. The MPK 61 and 88 I tried was way too stiff. THE 61es is super basic and no frills but was inexpensive and the action and velocity curve worked for my needs. Probably just got used to it.

The controller section is well done, though I did find a few quirks. For example, when an instrument channel is not activated, and you move to it first, using fader 9 wouldn't control the volume fader for that track. After activating it, the fader works and all subsequent faders work. Also some instruments would not take the lx61's learn feature. Assigning midi through the instrument midi learn itself failed on occasion. A little weird but overall really well done.

The knobs are fine and really responsive to their midi assignments. Felt very real-time. Pads are actually really nice for onboard pads. They were the first built in pads I would have used no questions asked. To the above poster, I believe you can save your pad settings onto the board.

Transport section was great in cubase. I do like the fact that you can open/hide the mixer or channel instrument with a shift+click. The fader 9 use of controlling whatever channel is highlighted is a really simple and common sense feature. I had to return my unit because it was intermittently losing contact with my DAW. Did some testing and I think the usb port on my board was going bad.

All in all, I would have kept it if the usb port wasn't bad. I'd pay an extra $50 today for a semiweighted version. I'm gonna try the VI61. The action feels very similar to the 61es and hopefully one of the velocity curves works for me. I'm also hoping that setting up the transport controls and assignments won't be too difficult but I've seen lots of complaints online.

If the VI61 doesn't work out, I'm just gonna get the LX88 and call it a day.

The VI61 has a physical button that transpose up and down. Don't know where you guys are getting your info from.

That's an octave transpose. My question was regarding semitone transpose. This can only be done in the editor software, according to Alesis.

Oh ok sorry guys...

Which did you go with?! I'm in a similar boat where I own an Novation SL61 (before the mkII) and to me it feels FANTASTIC. However I never could get automap to work for me, and I dont use all the knobs and faders (have another unit for that) so it seems overpriced to get another one. However I have yet to find a keyboard that feels comparable. The Native Instruments does, but its even MORE expensive!

So I'm curious if the VI61 had the same feel as the Novation SL? BTW, for those bashing Novations feel, please note which keyboard you actually played. I've tried their lower models like the Impulse, and its no where close to the feel of the SL line. So to judge all Novations on their lower models is doing yourself a disservice IMO.

Dont know if I should keep using my SL61 until it no longer works (has some water damage so the knobs dont work, but they keys still play fine) or if I should try an VI61, or just grab a new SL61MKII even though I won't use half of the functionality. Unfortunately dont have room for an 88key. I'm actually a bit scared of the SL61MKII. I recommended one to a friend and one of his C# keys in the middle of the keyboard no longer works for some reason! I wish someone just put the novation keybed in a Nectar iX61 body! Or that a Roland A-61 existed!! Thats actually what excites me about the VI61, if the keybed is actually professional that is. Anyone care to comment?

I currently have the VI61 but it shipped with a defect as well. Maybe it's just my bad luck. One of the drum pads is more depressed than the other 15 so it doesn't trigger the same velocities as the others. Sometimes it doesn't trigger at all.

The midi editor for the VI is very underwhelming. It looks clean, but there's some issue with it's programming. For example, one of the buttons is assigned to the same midi cc as the sustain pedal. So if I assign a key command to that button in cubase, every time I use the sustain it triggers the command. Reassigning the button or the sustain to a different midi CC is possible, but then it does not follow the command. Some of the buttons trigger a default midi cc of 41 from time to time. Not good but maybe I have a bad board. Also, I don't see a way to disable the aftertouch through the editor, though I haven't looked very hard. Finally, having to save multiple presets just to have a quick way to semi-tone transpose is annoying. So is the fact that the editor opens in a default mode that doesn't reflect the last preset saved or the one currently active on the hardware. You also have to assign the midi channels every time you open the editor. It's pretty clear that Alesis did not take the time to make things easier for the user.

The hardware itself is pretty decent. The keys feel much better than the LX61 for my tastes. There's more key travel and a little more resistance without them feeling too springy. One issue is the velocity curve settings. It's hard to play softer notes with them and the black keys clearly trigger higher velocities than the white keys. The action feels really nice, but you end up triggering higher velocities than you want to. Tried various curves and some are better than others for piano, but none gives you the right kind of touch.

If I could have this keybed with the LX61, it would be ideal. Trying to get a return on the unit. I just don't have a need or space for 88 keys, but it doesn't look like Alesis will be doing any firmware or editor updates anytime soon.

Also, if you don't use the SL 61 knobs/sliders, then getting an MKII probably isn't worth it. The keybed is the same is it not? The SL keys feel the best out the midi controllers I've owned. The VI61 keys feel alot like the axiom mkII keys but slightly better. Again, feel pretty decent but the velocity triggering feels off.

Thanks for following up! Well, the uneven velocity worries me a bit, as well as the midi cc problems as a fellow cubase user. But if they keyboard action is better than the LX61 I might give it a go. Let me know how the new board fares!

Yeah, its just mine got water damage and I'm a bit worried about it though I guess I'll run it into the ground and then search for alternatives.

I ended up with an Ensoniq VFX-sd which is like an ASR-10 but much less expensive because it's not as sought after. No, it's not buss powered, and no it's not USB, but it has polyphonic aftertouch, and great key feel. Plus it has some cool sounds and looks great. If you have an interface that has a MIDI port, or another piece of gear (AKAI MPD32, etc) or get a MIDI-USB cable, and get an ASR-10 if you can afford it, or one of its siblings if you can't.

Plus, anyone who comes into your studio will be immediately impressed by your cool vintage gear hah!

I am definitely having trouble finding a quality feeling 61 key controller that fits my requirements, which I'd like to think are not that unique:

-Using on a desk with computer monitor, need a keyboard with as thin a depth as possible. I don't really need lots of faders and knobs.

-Controller doesn't permanently reside on desk, I would just throw it on there quickly when its time to play. That means it should be at least somewhat lightweight, quickly connect with a single USB cable, shouldn't require a separate power cable, etc.

At my current house, my "home studio" is integrated into the living room and the family desktop computer, so I don't want to leave the keyboard hooked up on the desk at all times on a computer that others use.

The above requirements rule out using an old synth just for its better quality key bed, which is a shame, they really did used to make them better from what I can tell. Past keyboards I have owned (Korg DS-8, Roland Juno-60, D-10 and JV-90) all had WAY better feeling keyboards than any of the budget and not so budget controllers I have tried these days, which is frustrating, it's like we're moving backwards in quality as time goes by.

I ordered a Nektar ix61 and have it here, but will probably be sending it back. I wanted to like it, but all the keys all seem to be connected to a common spring so when you play with even medium strength, the whole keyed flies downward within the housing, very distracting. Every other aspect of the product was great (price, appearance, amount of hardware controls).

The new Alesis V61 seems pretty thin in depth but after what happened with the Nectar I'd like to try it before buying. The only local pro audio store does not stock those boards to try in person.

The 61 key controller I tried and really, really liked the feel of was the Roland A-800 Pro, but it has lots of sliders, controls and pads that add to its depth, like most models. They make a 49-key model (A-49) without all those extras that I think has the same great feeling key bed, but they don't not a 61-key model.

So from what I can tell, the product I am looking for doesn't seem to exist. If you want a 61 key controller that's thin and without all the extra real time performance controls, the only choices are budget models with low build quality and feel. Then, if you are willing to pay more money for a better quality playing feel, you have to get it with tons of knobs and sliders and pads that you may not want or have the room for.

Maybe my situation is more niche than I think it is. If I had a situation where the keyboard could stay out at all times, I would likely just buy the Roland a800 Pro and be done with it. It's expensive, but at least some of that is due to the quality keyboard and that would be worth something to me.


Thanks!

I agree that the Roland A800 is the best, and it's been making me insane for years. Currently I'm using some old synth that is heavy and big, but I will recommend the M-Audio Keystation 61-es

it might have transport controls (play, stop, record) and pitch/mod wheels plus one slider. Thats all I think it has. Pretty small, pretty light weight, and decent build quality. I haven't tried the Nektar stuff, but from everything I've heard and seen (and I'm a Propellerhead myself), I would stay away. Alesis has similar low-end quality, but I can't say I've ever felt an entire keybed go down when I press one key, so that's hard to relate to. Maybe its' something normal that I'm used to and you noticed?

Anyway, try Amazon.com they have the best return policy anywhere.

I 've only tried the Nektar P4 which I didn't like the action, which it is advertised as full-weighted and IMO is not even close. The rest that offers are usefull if you need them.
I also tried roland rd64, and doepfer pk88 and bought doepfer but I was looking for the most realistic piano action and didnt need the extras.
My post about that two on another thread https://gearspace.com/board/11065141-post112.html
Hope that helps.

The P4 should not be labeled as full-weighted, even at NAMM they say it is synth action... The P6 may have been "semi-weighted" but I don't even think their 88 is hammer action.

There is no such thing is "full-weighted" that I have ever heard. Real pianos use hammers that swing up and fall back down, and there are MIDI controllers (like the Roland A88 and Doepfer master keyboards) that have hammers, but they are expensive. Then there are digital pianos which have hammers at a certain price point, and can work fine, but this thread was really about 61 (like an organ would have) and that still doesn't exist, especially after M-Nukailesis became a monstrosity of 'pro'sumer gear...

Hopefully someone like Korg or Yamaha can pick up that ball again, but I doubt it. Seems in Europe there are more decent choices for that type of gear than in the states.

At least we have Roland...

Is that the reason they never made a 61 or 88 key version of the A-49?

Since I am in Europe I am buying for Thomann which says on descriprion for P4 and P6 "weighted keyboard". Which gave me the wrong impression.

Yeah there is not, by "full" I meant that there is not "semi" or similar.

Nektar Panorama P6 - Thomann Greece
Nektar Panorama P4 - Thomann Greece

But you seem to be right because there is not such a description for the action on Nektar's site.

Actually it was the P6 that I've tried. I thought P4, but it had 61keys so...
Both that and RD64, I believe fall into 61 keys section in which the thread refers to.
The pk88 was just an extra since it was on my test..

Just my 2 cents,
cheers

The VI61 has the same issue with the keybed/action. Holding a chord seems to put pressure on the whole keybed and there's a noticeable depression on the keys you're not playing. I'm not sure if the V61 is semi-weighted. I don't think it is.

I, too, would recommend the keystation 61-es if you're on a budget and want some space. It's bare bones but the keys feel better than other low end units. There's an MK2 out with minimal controls.

the new oxygen line has different keys that don't have full travel. that can be distracting. keep that in mind. not all m-audio keys are the same. and who knows about the code61...

Just an update to my situation, I returned to Amazon the Nektar iX61 that I had, as mentioned the common spring that all the keys shared was not working for me.

In its place I ordered a Samson Carbon 61, which came today and I am happy to report is much better, and I will be keeping. The keys still son't feel ANYTHING like the proper keybed of a workstation synth or old 80s synth, but they are sufficient for my needs and the product's price point.

Pros and Cons of the Samson Carbon 61, after spending some time with it today:

Pros:
-Keys feel pretty good at least among the available crappy options. Doesn't seem to use a common spring like the Nektar iX61 so pressing one key does not depress the whole keyed

-Pitch and mod wheels feel really good, nice damping, good grip and texture. Same high end feel for encoder knob and data slider

-Proper 5-pin MIDI output lets you use unit with synth hardware module, using USB port as power port, if that's something useful to you. For me it will always be a straight USB connection to Mac or iPad

-Slot for holding iPad makes for cool self contained system when triggering iOS music apps

-2 digit display very useful for seeing what amount you have transposed octaves, semitones, assigned controller values, etc. Much more useful than units with no 2-digit display

Cons

-Although keys do feel pretty good, they are mechanically pretty noisy so could be distracting when playing with a quiet track or at low monitoring volume

-The buttons on the unit are very stiff to press and make a super loud click when pressed. Funny to me that this is so when the wheels, slider and knob felt so good

-Overall design is very round, white and bulbous, looks kind of wacky for a boring 41 year old like myself. I like how the Roland A800Pro's style looks more like the digital synths form the 80s, my formative years

-USB port is very tight fit when connecting and disconnecting cable. Good for live, not so good for me where I will be connecting it only when in use.

Thanks!

Hi there!
I'm about to buy new stuff and I'm close to a decision! I must buy the Yamaha Reface DX and the CP while keeping my Roland A-33. Since the Roland A-33 has no controls I'll buy it an AKAI LPD8.
Now… Evaluating the keybed keys what do you guys think about the A-33 ones?

English is not my native language, so sorry for any grammar errors…

TIA

i don't have those issues with mind. And yes it's not semi weighted is synth action.

Let me Che k to make sure

I ended up saving some money, having the perfect sense that it is not the same "thing" but I'm very satisfied. It's perfect for me and it is what I was looking for, a good midi controller and it has some sounds. The Korg Triton Taktile 49. The keybed is not great but it serves me well, all the controls are awesome, using Logic Pro X and MainStage here, all the features are great. The built in sounds from Triton are cool too. For this keyboard to be perfect I would add it 1+ octave (61 keys) and a better keybed.

Been a long time, but I've tired of the heavy Ensoniq taking up so much space in my new (smaller) room.

Any updates on the state of the market these days in terms of controllers or affordable synths that can be used as master controllers?

Anyone have experience with the Behringer Motor keyboards? Their stuff has been getting progressively better and MusicGroup has been acquiring real companies (Midas, TC Electronic/Helicon, among others) so I wonder if it's a good way to go? Is it the same key bed as the DM12? If so, how is the DM12? I haven't played one...