This is a long shot – I know. For years, iLok License Manager (v.2.5.3) has been working fine on my MacPro (Snow Leopard) – yes, I know it's all old but it's always worked!

Today, I'm getting a message from Pro Tools to reauthorise. I open License Manager but can't sign in, getting the 'Server Unavailable' message. The internet connection is fine (browsers etc, all work), and I can connect License Manager on another Mac.

Does this ring any bells? Maybe delete preferences? Any thoughts would be most welcome. Rather desperate!

Now it's time for my long shot.. Did you manage to get iLok License Manager 2.5.3 to connect to the iLok server under Mac OS 10.6? Thanks

There was a lot going on at that time, but I contacted iLok, and from memory, I simply went through what they said despite some of it seeming to be unnecessary! It's probably a case of 'a little knowledge' on my part – I shouldn't make assumptions! Below is the reply – I hope it helps.
________________________________________________

Please perform a fresh install of the latest version of the iLok License Manager and synchronize your iLoks. The latest version of the iLok License Manager is available for download from the iLok License Manager tab on iLok.com.

To perform a fresh install, you will need to uninstall the current iLok License Manager from your computer.

The first step is to download a fresh copy of the installer from iLok.com, making sure you delete any old copies of this installer that may also be in your Downloads folder.

On a Mac, please use the "Uninstall License Support” application included in the License Support/iLok License Manager installer to uninstall.

*** IMPORTANT ***
Make sure to uninstall all anti-virus and security file-monitoring software (i.e. AVG, Avast, McAfee, Norton, etc.) before continuing with installation. These product are known to interfere with the installation and operation of our components.

After uninstalling the current version of iLok License Manager reboot the system and then run the newly downloaded iLok License Manager installer.

With the latest version of iLok License Manager installed, plug in your iLoks and perform a synchronize operation on the affected iLoks one at a time. To perform a synchronize, double-click an iLok to open its detail pane and click the "Synchronize" link. A synchronize may also be performed by right-clicking the iLok and then choosing "Synchronize" from the pop-up menu.

Thanks. Did exactly this again (actually did this the first time), but the server is still not available. Will probably need to contact them myself. Important part is: you DID manage it to work! That's encouraging.

Got the response from iLok Technical Support: "I'm sorry, but we do not support that version of our software or that operating system anymore."

Wondering what else they told you, that left you satisfied..

Crappiocca, not working for me either and this computer I'm posting this on is the same one ilok alleges has no internet connection

Yeah, this concerns me a little... I have a 5,1 Cheesegrater with some machine auth's that I want to take off of it, and it is running either Sierra or Mavericks iirc.... and I'm concerned I won't be able to obviously if the iLok software isn't supported, .... this reads as a problem right? Or am I overlooking something?

if I am understanding this correctly, then this could be a problem.
arrising from lack of backwards compatibility.

so as iLok make advances along with contemporary technology, at the same time they are signaling an unwillingness to fix any legacy operating system incompatibility issues, which break the authorisation protocols ability to function.

so that inability to any longer function of those security protocols, are then potentially equivalent to total authorisation failure. so if what fails to become able to be authorised, represents a catastrohphic failure, then this can be what you are left with. and all based on the OS version becoming unsupported.

the effect of that would be, you can't authorise the plugins any longer, and failing to do so causes them to no longer load, in any current or previous project in which they had been instantiated.

hopefully this isn't the case but, this would represent a worse case scenario.

Yeah, I think you raise 2 good points, of which only 1 I was worried about at first.... (which was removing my machine auth from a legacy system)... but as you bring up, this does NOT solve the problem of having that as a LEGACY system with my Soundtoys/Eventide/Melodyne what have you plugs being able to damn RUN in a legacy sense....

(hell, I should feel lucky that my SoundToys stuff is still machine authed and on there, as I leaned on that a lot.. and if it won't recognize a currently updated iLok dongle to authorize... wtf is a legacy system worth?

hmmm....

So, yeah, I don't know yet, but it something to consider, and another fail of the iLok system 'if' indeed that is the case...

as someone who uses primarily osx/macOS stuff for audio, this could be a bit of a pickle with the assumption of having authorization on my purchased products being able to be operable with a means that it might not recognize.

great....

I imagine some companies like Soundtoys would or will be cool with tossing me an additional authorization for my ST Bundle or whatever, but I certainly don't expect that to be necessarily easy or quick with either them or a lot of devs, (especially some that don't exist anymore...)

yeah I've been trying to strategise around these issues for quite some time now. to actually even try to figure out what might go wrong and why, is a whole rats nest of problems to think through in the first place, and that's even before i am able to start thinking if there any viable solutions.

ultimately i considered the problem sufficiently complex that I was unlikely going to ever be able to not get caught out by some unrecognized factor. so then I started to target specific tools and the least number of them as a way to minimise the likelyhood. but I understand it's not a strategy that most people are likely to adopt.

one of the reasons why I think it's now comon to hear people state that they always render everything in a project to Audio, is because in some real sense or another they have recognised the insolubility of these problems in the round. but have also recognised that, even if they buy the most up to date system and also keep it up to date, they are still just as able to get hit hard.

because they are often especially vulnerable to any single important clients request being unable to be met, due to any single projects failing to load, or any single plug-in failing to load, and for any of the possible reasons at all. and the failure to serve the client is also often time sensitive.

I reckon this is why you also see power users start arguing that what they do at some stage is, disconnect a particular system from the internet and also stop updating the software on the system. I'm sort of one of those, except I can keep my system connected still at this point, and I also have so radically minimised my toolset, that I hardly have anything to go wrong. but I still understand that it could, so I slowly try to back up what I consider the most primary and critical data which underpins the functionality of my system, to iCloud. so that I can reconstruct my system from say, a combination of the second hand hardware market and cloud data storage.

so for example, I could probably backup the bulk of the core of my system, to about 30 to 40GB on a cloud server. and if I also did a Time Machine Backup, I could probably do it to a 1TB drive. or with a 2TB drive I could potentially also partition it for other storage.

but of course, I don't want to have to do any of this and have to undergo a recovery nightmare at all. and I certainly don't want to have to do it under a condition where nothing works or I can do nothing creative whilst the system is totally downed. so for that, I have other tools or creative subsystems if you like, that I can use for the creative satisfaction factor, if I am hit with that kind of catastrophy. for me it's mostly that creative core element which matters most.

I think the problem becomes more accute, the closer down the line you are to the finished product as it were. wether it's for your own purposes or for a clients. so if you get paid to produce a finished product, then your whole systems integrity is dependent on it funcitioning completely. and that's why I reckon you even hear from those people that they have adopted a strategy of printing everything as Audio. so that tells you that they in a real sense, have had to place all thier eggs in one basket.

so if your basket of eggs is a complex integrated system and you depend on it in whole, your are inevitably sailing close to the wind. and the more often those winds change, the closer you get to the breakdown case. so what I try to do is develop strategies which can help mitigate against being too close to the edge of those breakdowns. if your a single person having to keep every part of a complex system up and running, it's arguably akin to being expected to be one single person who is expected to be able to keep every part of a commercial studio functioning. realistically, no one would expect anyone to be able to cope with that, but this is what people now expect they will be able to pull off.

so even though I have designed simplicity at the core of my system, I still can tell that it still almost one hairs breath from being out of my control. so I have plan B's and Plan C's which are subsystems not dependent on the larger system being functional. I couldn't come up with any other sure fire way to handle it. in other words, it seemed realistic to have to imagine a scenario where a main system suffered a complete failure. so if you think about it, if you have a condition where a significant number of the plug-ins that all you projects depend on go down, you have sort of met the criteria for a complete system failure. e.g. it is sufficiently equivalent in implication, to one.

Well I'm glad you have been chewing on it @ Muser , as if I have issues, it will be nice to bump some results or ideas off you...

Yeah, I have so so so many legacy projects and a fair amount of legacy systems on ice.

Last summer I went through a bunch of stuff on one of my cheesegraters to bounce as audio etc with a move from intel to m chipped etc, and the fact that I was losing some older 32bit plugs kept alive by SoundRadix's 32Lives! etc... and whatnot....

and many had many iLok stuff, and it worked "then" without problems to my memory (should probably double check...).. and the machine never touched the internet in the process, so at least it seems to have worked with iLok from last year etc...

My problem is with bouncing everything to audio is multi fold, as not only was there not enough time in a hectic work situation sometimes historically, and even with an assistant etc... although the kinda scenario is a lot easier today than it was a decade + ago, where you really couldn't even trust it unless you heard it and double checked, as I've seen some really sh1t bounces at some really inopportune times etc...

but is what it is.... and just having so much... as the years add up... so higher priority projects and whatnot would get that treatment more commonly then some one day things, ... but then I get called about one of those one days things and.... and revs or things that need or may need to be done are not easily done off straight audio as some cakes are harder to take the egg out of or unbake or recreate than others... not to mention parts that are interdependent on others for certain things from modulations to etc etc..

but yeah, audio dumps and bounces should just be done regardless and is reasonably the way to deal with most situations... it would be easier if I generally just worked in a straight up 'rock' or classical scenario or something in which what was what was what was what...

whatever, you know what I mean and hell, this has been somewhat of a bane since the beginning of all of this for me from the early 90's and whatnot...

and I'll type more later (I'm pretty sick right now so not displaying much acumen in typing it out..)..

-but a side point you raise I think is a good one, in minimizing ones tools to some degree, as obviously cuts down on herrings to chase... and even though we all like new toys and those things can sprout all sorts of inspiration and ideas... sometimes that thing/instrument/plug you use just 'once' unfortunately can have more weight in a particular track than it should kinda thing... and with my newer system, I've been approaching things with more discretion involved, and things that don't pass mustard are quickly removed for the most part... but that's kinda another conversation to some degree...

..but tl/dr, I guess I hadn't thought about it in terms of removing a machine auth and moving it to an iLok (ala Soundtoys etc) WITHOUT going online in the process, ....

thanks for your thoughts as always.

Is there a reason you guys don't have your licenses on an ilok dongle?

Does that not work either?

I'm likely missing the scenario that keeps a dongle out of the equation.

I DO have my stuff on an iLok dongle... for a situation or two I did machine authorizations via iLok on my main home machine or something which may now be problematic to withdraw is what we are talking about.... or in addition to what Muser was talking about, that legacy systems may have an issue with outdated iLok software regardless of having the physical dongle in place on said systems etc...

I see. Well, does that mean that moving errant licenses from machine to dongle....and also ...gathering all the ilok site legacy installers (for snow leopard etc) to install (overwriting any current pace software) as needed on say, a 2011 system....also isn't a test-able peace of mind thing? Or does that still produce a non-connect or whatever?

Maybe you guys already discussed that route.

It ~could~ be a problem, I will try later this week... the licenses were put there on purpose back a decade ago or whatever, so not so much errant, as just so much I'd probably rather be able to get them back should I need...

but again, I have to boot up the legacy machine and see if it's all copacetic with my iLok dongle with older versions of stuff like Eventide and whatnot etc without going online, (as I said, I just keeping those systems 'on ice' for legacy projects and dropping them out on a per need basis kinda thing...)....

I'm concerned if I put that machine online, it's gonna want to update iLok drivers or other things that may take it out of its place in time.

On the other hand, having the machine(s), I guess I can lose a machine auth here or there if need be to keep them still running solid etc and doing what they are intended to do... and politely ask SoundToys or something for another license should a problem occur...


so tl/dr, that said, I haven't tried yet, it's on my list of things to do this week... I just want one machine locked in 2019 and one locked in 2016 or something in regards to that.... and I don't see them kissing the internet 'helping' that cause, and could possibly create some friction or break things...

While those systems DO have bootable clones of their system drives etc, I really don't want to go too deep down the meta rabbit hole on that unless I have to...

When you go online, Ilok with pop up a window advising you that there is a newer version of the Ilok manager to install; however, it doesn’t force you to download it.

Ah, that is good to know that it's not a forced update.

Thank you for that bgood!

(now to wonder what else might want to phone home and etc, but probably not a big deal and beyond the purview of this thread...)

I recently did just that for a 4,1 Mac Pro running El Capitan. I was pretty nervous about the whole thing with everything being so outdated. Got an iLok 3 usb from guitar center - opened iLok manager -plugged it in, it then asked to register that iLok usb to your account which was simple enough - selected all the licenses (they were all machine authorized) then dragged them to the iLok usb.

That was it, it worked no problem. All plug-ins open and work just as before. The Mac Pro has iLok manager v5.4.1 which is the latest version for macOS 10.11.6. In the iLok manager I always uncheck the auto-update preference and just check the iLok website if I have the latest version for the operating system. I’ll check the website from a different computer because the 4,1 Mac Pro safari can’t connect to the website obviously being so outdated. But yet the iLok manager does still work. There were a lot of licenses including the full soundtoys bundle, Eventide Anthology 12 and more.

I did beforehand make sure all the plug-ins were updated to their last compatible version for El Capitan.

Just make sure you’re running the latest version of the eye lock (yes I’m gonna leave that auto correct - eye lock lol) manager software for whatever operating system your 5,1 Mac Pro is running and then make sure the plug-ins are updated to their last possible versions too. And boom it should work, now you don’t have to worry about all those machine authorizations going down with the hard drive just have to worry about something happening to the eye lock usb lol…

it just took me an hour to figure out why a bounce of a clap sound I bounced in place in Reaper, by glueing a midi item which had a sampler as an item FX in it, didn't sound the way it did when I played the item itself.

it was because the track offset was offset negative by around 1500 samples. so when I was playing back the same loop selection time, the start of the bounce was playing back with the begining clipped. what a shit show.

so I checked every wrong thing before I eventually found the problem. so speaking of dodgy bounces, even though the bounce was actually ok, that could have just as easily been a dodgy bounce as an ok one. so yeah, I think it's still as easy to make dodgy bounces these days as in the past. just a different kind of dodgyness. so even now you can't always know if the bounces are exact unless you have some method to check that they are. maybe some method of an in place place with null test. then look at the null render and make sure there are no signals. easier said than done though.

I don't tend to bounce to audio myself much btw. though one advantage of it I guess, is it cleans out all the clutter. so you just have audio at that point and know that's all there is. thoug hI sometimes make multi track audio bounces, so I just have one file which is also like a bunch of stems in one multitrack audio file. so I can just drag one file in and all the audio tracks are there.

but as for all the backwards compatibility problems, I don't actually think you can really win eiither way. you either are going to have a bleeding edge problem or a trailing edge problem. so if you try to keep fully up to date, you have trailing edge unsupported legacy failures, and if you try to keep older trailing edge systems running, then something like iLok is going to run with bleeding edge security inovations and then one day, pooooof. or something is going to want to check into some up to daye protocol with which you are no longer going to be compatible.

even with my simple system, I can find projects made on older versions of Reaper, begin to fail to load on later versions. someone might have made a JS plugin tool I was using and then at some stage along the time line of Reaper upgrades, (which can be fairly regular for Reaper) the tool being instantiated will start breaking the load routine.

but it would have to be true that the more tools you use, the more likely it is that you'll get a problem, regardless if you follow the bleeding edge or try to remain on a trailing edge.

More reply later possibly as it's late where I am, and I literally have a fever/flu and do not want to embarrass myself.... (so apologies if this is a ramble..)

But dead on bingo bother on your last comment.

Bounces to audio can come fraught with errors now as well, and even if it is our own fault or something we didn't foresee in our process etc... and I'm not listening to every track after, as hell, I generally haven't even had the time to bounce the sh1t in the first place... .

Logic and whatnot back in the day was a damn nightmare... bounce in place or real time bounces were laden with problems, and with projects bloating somewhat and different dependencies in things.... yeah... sigh...

it is not as bullet proof a solution as casually dropped by many as sold, but is probably still statistically the best way to kinda future proof, or capture stuff in some usable form down the road should everything else disappear whether it's extant or 32 bit or what have you..

I think I have always kinda skirted, or rather had my dance card full with both dating the bleeding edge scenarios and while also courting the legacy boat anchor scenarios simultaneously as it goes,

and using daws (like pre Protools with StudioVision to now with apple silicon or other os's and hardware that have served at different junctures...).. so I usually get long runways from my systems over all, and then put them in lucite to do what they do to be called back in to service to spit out the old work if needed, if not, ok... and with newer, hey, you don't know what's gonna work despite the lies the devs and hardware manufacturers will 'tell' you will work etc... but so it goes...

It's honestly worked out pretty fairly well so far, and over ~34ish years of that just gets more accordian like as the decades increase etc ....

and at least I've help save a lot of friends of mine, or been able to resurrect records done pretty far back... as I have had the systems that could run some things they needed for honesty some pretty large multiplatinum releases to be re-released and needed to be addressed kinda things etc... and whatever...

we know we are always gonna be chasing our tails on this to some degree, and headaches and pita are part of it.. and so it goes...

and then yet another system gets put in the "raiders of the lost ark" archive to be found later if needed for some reason.. or not...

But I've still got (last I checked at least, so with a grain of salt on that..). Mac IIfx/ci systems running dat/io slash sound accelerator cards to 4 channel OG PT systems to nubus PT with 8 channels(!), to pci tdm then pci-e etc and all the damn proprietary cables and interfaces and scsi drives and serial midi interfaces and all that comes with all that from 91/92 to now with many Quadra/PowerPC/os7/8/9/g3/g4/g5/intel stops along the way kinda stuff you know....

A lot of them loaned out for other projects as they were on ice etc and I'm over it... as don't care ~that~ much... but sometimes you have to, or sometimes you are glad you have it just to help a brother or sister out you know?

Right 'now', I'm trying to keep simple with a competent mbp m3max as nomadic traveling often with a lot of other stuff in storage etc, and hey... its all fine...

I'm just in a port of call where I left one of my more oft used maxed out 4,1's or whatnot and without breaking it, probably should grab some licenses off it, and if there are many projects involved that are not yet audio dropped... do so if not too lazy, and put it back in it's vault...

So yeah, again, I agree with you in arriving at the sheer acknowledgement that having more tools= more possible points of fail ...and problems going forward to to my future self (why I approach things less 'enthusiastically' now in terms of kitchen sink... but freely admit I'm still an idiot often for a new toy)...

Ultimately you just have learned to let some things go, but it does sometimes become a problem when there is money on the table for things that you own (and sometimes serious money on that), and if you have executed a little bit of foresight.... well.. It can stick in ones craw if not doing so or able to prevents you from getting a decent payday for work you've already done for the most part....

But I'm not about to spend my life obsessing about older sessions, and 'complete availability' other then just some common sense solutions that may even be too much overkill in that regard. as whatever sometimes.... but we try and do what we right? or attempt to be prudent as we can, rather than stupid... but hey...

I've got no illusions that I'm carrying boat anchors sometimes, and tossing the good stuff in the aether of whatever...

in a lot of cases, it's unlikely that many folk are going to be able to utilise the content of older sessions. but the main driver underlying that reasoning, seems to be the rapidity that people get clients constantly asking for minor updates. and even related to old projects. so then when they try to load an old project that exceeds a certain back date, then just one failure causes them to fear losing the client. I reckon that's the dynamic on why they end up bouncing everythign to audio. it's a pretty radical solution if you think about it though.

anyhow, I expect you already know all about it and I agree that even it is not going to be sure fire solution. so I bet, that what they calculate is, that the likelyhood of the screwed up render being the render the client is going to want changing is low enough of a chance, that it spreads the odds.

I don't have to keep legacy systems going for the sake of someone else over here. I only do so for the sake of myself in that sense. but even then my current system is High Sierra, and even though my systems are designed to be as minimalist and efficient as possible, (e.g. the current content of my main system partition is currently at 390GB) trying to change over to silcon is potentially going to be a large logistical problem any way I cut it.

for me, part of that reason is that most all of that parts of my system I have utilised in order to leverage the efficiency, need to work on another system, otherwise the efficiency design would break. so it tells me that another paradox is that as you leverage any complicated system to work in some way at a maximial efficiency as possible, then each of the moving parts become more dependent on one another to remain a moving part, in order to not break.

so if I try go from a High Sierra system which is running on a APFS formatted partition, and migrate it over to a silcon based hardware solution, I would probably be wise to try to have it installed on that silicon system, on a second partition which also has an OS running on it. and that would be to just try to see if the system would all run under emulation. if it did, I would probably take it as a win, even if it was running in emulation. I should still obtain significant efficient in added CPU power under that condition.

but if it breaks under that condition, I would probably then have to try to rebuild my system on the first partition on the silicon machine. which would then be extremely boring. I mean it was boring enough the first time and I would be lucky to even remeber the parts I had modified, untill I come across the situation where I go, oh yeah I remember now, on High Sierra I did X Y & Z to solve this problem. but now I forget how I did it. so I hope to hell it works under emulation and important parts of it don't break.

I look forward to a future that doesn't look like this.

Me:
hey ChatGPT, what's gone wrong with my project ?

ChatGPT:
who do you think I am ? Mystic Meg ?

Me:
I thought you were supposed to be super intelligent

ChatGPT:
shut up I'm Buisey

get well soon