im looking for a new 8ch interface that i would like to pair with a dbox. is the ls pro 56 a good enough interface to spend the extra money? or should i wait to be able to buy an ensenble or apollo. thanx for any opinions....

Look into Motu stuff - I think the converters on them are better.

I think liquid pro thingie has the same converters as the old saffire pro so you might as well go with a saffire pro 40 if you want focusrite.

Focusrite is known for preamps though, not converters. If you are not going to use the preamps much then it would be a bit of a waste to get an integrated solution from focusrite.

You can get some motu stuff quite cheap. 828 mk II is good and the 2408 and 24 io is even better if you can get one used with a card that is not ****ed up which I had the miss-fortune to get.

This is incorrect. The LS56 and SP40 have the same converters and preamps.
The main reason you would choose the LS56 is the Liquid preamps and the extensive i/o at the $1k price point. I'm not sure why someone would post a statement as fact that they clearly have no clue about.

I have been using an LS56 for over a year now on numerous projects and have been very pleased with the results. I use all 10 analog outputs for OTB summing and monitor via S/PDIF with a TC Electronic BMC-2. I use a passive summer and make up gain with the Liquid preamps when returning the mix back ITB.

Yes The liquid saffire 56 is a great interface and would work great with the dbox, and would be a great added enhancement to get some analog gain staging and analog summing, from an already very nice unit, that has some of the best pres that you can get. You can get closer to an analog board sound from it with a dbox.

I disagree that a MOTU unit is better than the liquid saffire 56, it is not better or worse, just has different strong and weak points, than the LS 56, wich also has it's own strong and weak points. The only things that the MOTU has above the LS 56 is, that it is has PCI based controller, for the possibilty of lower latency, and 24 analog I/O out of the box, but that is really the ONLY things it has that the LS 56 does not. Not that the liquid saffire 56 has a latency issue, I have experienced 0 latency with either of the two units I have purchased.

If anyone says that the converters are BETTER than another in this price range, don't trust them they are listening too much to the wrong information and myths. ALL of the the converters in this price range are 100% equal to each other, and I will guarantee that most if not all will not be able to tell the difference among them (if there is any), the differences will be in the analog circuits not the converters. I know that lots of people on this board swear that the mr816 is in the leagues of a prism in the converter, but I don't think that is the case, I have played with all of the ones in this price range and the LS 56 just stands out for many reasons (the mic pres, the converter is transparent, two ADAT connections, 10 alaog outs, for summing, etc). The converters do the job and do it well, they are VERY transparant (which is what you want). The liquid pres are stellar, and above most if not all in this price point. I am not saying that anything is wrong with the mr816, at all, just that the converter is not in the same league as the prism, I have used and owned both units.

Now does the liquid saffire 56 compare with a prism orpheus, no, but neither do any others in this price point. I do have the SSL alpha link with a delta link and a native core card (in the tracking/mixing rooms), and a prism (in my mastering suite) and an LS 56 (in my edit/overdubs suite) at my pro facility, and an LS 56 at home now, after having several other interfaces, I think the LS 56 is just above the others in this price point for the features that I pointed out above. It really does have a great sound to it, and it tends to lean more to the analog tone/color than a sterile digital one, a lot like the Apogee 16x series tends to, not that this compares to that, but just that it tends to have more of an analog feel/sound than most interfaces, similar to the apogee 16x.

So yeah an LS 56 and a DBOX or other summing mixer will be a great combo.

Jim

thanx for the replies, the ls 56 is looking good. i am however worried that it is only fw 400 and no new macs have 400, only 800. right now im using an original duet. i have a mackie vlz 3 that im using as a sub-mixer and bringing the outs of the duet back into 11/12 on the mixer. i dont like what the mackie does to the sound, i do like the duet, but i need the mixer to get my work done.

There was nothing incorrect about my statement. You agreed with me that the converters are the same so what the hell are you giving me shit about?

This forum is ridiculously aggressive in this manner.

You incorrectly stated that I was wrong and then proceeded to sell the 56 even though you even added yourself that the preamps are the same of which I have no idea because In my research for a different thing I only looked at the converters and saw no worthwhile difference between the 56 and the old focus-rites.

Do I need to come in and sell a product if I want to mention a SINGLE detail about something?

You completely ruined my morning coffee with this stuff. I came here to just have a chat about gear and mention what I noticed and I am being schooled becouse I din't mention all the details.

Logically your statement is incorrect by the way as "the preamps" are not the same. "some preamps are the same" would be correct. I don't know though because I din't test these preamps as was interested in conversion mainly.

Edit: When I talk about converters I am not talking about the chips for gods sake I am talking about the conversion offered by the whole channel.
Maybe I am just not fitting to this board as I am a musician and I don't care about converters versus converters in their analog circuits around them, to me it's the same as I need the unit to work and not just offer technical specs and in my experience the MOTU sounded better at the time.
Hey maybe I was high or I dreamt it up but that was my impression and just talking generally about sage truths does not invalidate this.

Technical specs are there, what people hear is different.
I am starting to believe that this board is being actively used to hype up products because in my day to day life I never saw so many people be so vocal about some bits of gear in such an irrational manner.

Also stating that everything is the same at this price range is ridiculous. If you actually do some tests you will see that even new generations of old products priced at the same level often tend to be completely different in what they actually offer.

Some products are just really slick like some of the stuff from RME so yeah sure often is worthwhile just for that or the drivers but that is beside the discussion about sound quality and if you just want some conversion for a summing box then I would go for whatever gives me the best conversion for the buck.

The question was about something to couple with a summing box - why sell a product which strong points are preamps and slickness?

Gotta stand up for the LS56 as a fantastic interface. Tons of I/O and features for the money. Has been a joy to work with for the past year that I've had it.

Graham

I am pretty sure no one attacked you here. Just like in the real world and being face to face, people are going to have differing opinions. No one is trying to sell anyone anything here, just recommending a product that we know and own, and all feel will fit the bill for the OPs request, which was, is a Lquid Saffire 56 is a good enough interface to use with an analog summer/summing mixer.

There are a few issues that I see with your statements, however,

1) You are thinking of this whole thing from the point of a musician buying some gear. Instead, think of it as if you had to buy gear for a pro studio. You would want to know which conversion chip does it have, how does it compare to a prism, or a lavry, are the pres clean and clear, does the unit color the sound, if so, how and what is coloring the sound. Does the coloring improve my current rig or is it just not going to fit right.

2) The MOTU gear that you mentioned is not actually in the same price point "new" so the converters in the MOTU may be better, and it might have a better chip in it, but it is a little bit older than the LS 56, so other issues may come up. It is also not a real strong analog contendor, it is a great digital unit, and I am sure it has a lot of "digital sparkle", but it will not help if you are trying to get to that whole analog & digital mecca, that everyone is aiming for right now. I am guessing that is why the OP would like an analog summer/gain stager.
As I have already mentioned I have owned most of the gear in the just below 1K area, as well as a lot of gear in the well over 5k, and even 12k with the prism ADA-8. I can say with 100% sureness that the chips in the just below 1K price point are all pretty much the same. As I have stated above, that it is going to be the alalog circuits and thier components that will contribute or change the sound, and that is usually where one should put thier focus in this price point. Now in contrast, if you are looking to spend 2K or more, even in the 2K range there are 4 units that ALL use a different converter chip, some will be better but the analog circuits will be cheaper, and vise a versa. In the sub 1K range, there is not that much leeway to change the types of parts used to make the gear.

3) The people on here not only tend to be your average joe, hobby engineer, or musician, but there are pro engineers on here as well (I happen to own my own pro studio), so It would be a real good idea to make 100% sure that any statements you make that they can be backed up via google or otherwise, before posting. I like most engineers tend to know the specs of most of the gear on this board pretty well, but if I am going to state a fact, I will ALWAYS look it up first, just to CYA, because someone might know it better than I.

Oh, and don't be so worried about posts like in this thread, this one is very civilized, I have been in some that have been very bad, with name calling and worse, not that I have participated in that, but all I am saying that people assume since it is music that you should already have a thick skin so to speak. This was not an attack, just some freindly criticism.

What board did you think this was again? This is gearslutz, where people are very passionate about studio gear.



Jim

Get a fire wire 400-800 converter, I use one to connect the LS 56 to my macbook pro, when I need to.

The one that I have, came with a firewire 400 cable.

Here is an example of one that is KNOWN to work with a mac:
Sonnet - FireWire 400 to 800 Adapter

Jim

i was on the focusrite website and i saw that mentioned with the same adapter you listed. do you think the sound will be a big step down from the duet and do you have any experience with the saffire pro 40? (is the sound the same as the ls56 without the bells and whistles. thanx agaoin for your help.

No neither of the focusrite units will be a step down from the apogee duet, I think they are quite equal units, the pro 40 and the LS 56 really are the same minus the liquid channels.

I also like the saffire 40, it has the exact same converters as the LS 56, and sounds very nice, not as much of the analog thing going on as the 56 has going for it though (sort of like the apogee 16x units have). The difference is in the the liquid pre amp channels. Really if you are looking at something in this area and you have ANY need for nice pres, the LS 56 really is the ONLY choice in this price range. I have tried and used all of the pre emulations in the LS 56, and I LOVE the neve 1073 clone, and there are 9 other emulations, that sound incredible. Are they exact clones of the real thing, no, but are they quite close, yes very. I have tried them against some of the real things, and we did a blind test at my studio one day for fun and most of our engineers could not tell the difference between it and the real thing, for most of the emulations.

Really the draw is the liquid pres, compared with the saffire pro 40, otherwise the other 6 pres are the same as the 8 on the pro 40, even the 2 liquid pres can turn off the eumlation, with a flat setting, in otherwords, they can use the standard focusrite pre minus the emulation.

I will be totally honest here, when I first started to look at interfaces for a new overdub and edit suite at my pro facility, I was very skeptical of the LS 56 and its capabilities, until I went and played with one, from the pro shop out here, that I sometimes deal with. We just did a quick and dirty session with an acoustic guitar and a vocalist in thier store after hours, and I was shocked at what ended up in protools, it sounded amazing. Long story short, I bought two of these units. One of them has been in the overdub and edit suite for about 6 or 8 months now, and I just installed my home unit a little over a month ago, I went from a digidesigns audio media I to an audiomedia II, to a digi 001, to a 003, to this thing at home, and I have to say it is night and day. I think that this unit being right at 1K list, can compete with units that do cost more than it does, and of course you need to check out B&H photo, they are selling the LS 56 new for 799 USD.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...G&A=details&Q=


Jim

pretty happy with my saffire 56.. in fact id go as far to say its one of the best purchases ive ever made in terms of value for money.. used it in many different scenarios now and it has been good, hopefully that continues and i dont hit any snags with it.. My only criticism is the gain pots spike too sharp around 3 o'clock and overall can be a little too hot for some louder drum kits.. I bought a couple of XLR attenuators though just in case and in conjunction with the two PAD channels its not been a prob.. i love the flexability with routing and the adaptability, ive used it as a standalone pre amp a number of times also.. overall id say it scores a 9/10 for me.

I'm really diggin the Saffire 56 as well. Only complaint is that it doesn't play nice with my external firewire hard drive when daisy chained.

Hi, I need a little Help... Ok Im using Pt9 with the safire 56, basically In the box, I have gone and ordered a ssl x desk, the write ups kinda of opened my eyes to how I would like my final mixes to sound. only problem is how would I set this up with the Safire 56? also how would I route back my final L/R stereo mix back to DAW Via spidif! Optical digital, Ive been told that I need to buy a D-Sub Patchbay..Can I work round this without the Patchbay! I never record more the 2 tracks at once. Please some 1 out there give me the best options for this scenario without breaking the bank... Thanks Joey

I did a little research on the SSL Xdesk, and you will need to get dsub to balanced 1/4" snakes, you will connect the outputs from the Xdesk to the 1/4" line ins on the LS 56, and the outputs (there are 10 balanced 1/4" outs on the LS 56) to the inputs on the Xdesk.

I have not been able to confirm if there is actually an SPDIF connection on the Xdesk. The only mention I can find of it in the X line is in the X Panda, which is an xpander to the Xdesk. There might be a way to get at it with a dsub cable, but I would doubt it, since most dsubs don't usually connect via RCA, but There are several XLR connectors on the Xdesk, if you are lucky you might have AES on those XLRs, or get access to it from the Dsub, you could then get a converter box that goes from AES to SPDIF, like the one below.

Hosatech Digital Audio Interface, S/PDIF Coax to AES/EBU - S/PDIF Coax to AES/EBU

I have seen them for less than 100 USD.

I am really not quite sure why you would want to go back to your DAW via digital though, isn't the whole point of the Xdesk to get analog summing? I would go back into line inputs 1&2 on the LS 56, from the stereo outs on the Xdesk, and call it a day, you will still need the Dsub to 1/4" snakes/cables though, to get at the inputs on the xdesk.


Jim

If the X-desk does have AES output, the SPDIF input on the LS56 can be switched to confirm strictly to AES standard (albeit over RCA rather than XLR connector at the LS56 end obviously). However, as Jim said, why go out to analog summing but return via digital? Unless there is a really good A-D in the X-desk that you're sure will outperform the conversion in the Saffire. (If the X-desk even has an A-D at all - I can't remember offhand.)

The key for optimal function of Firewire interfaces is often the right choice of Firewire card.

My coming mainboard a MSI P77A-G45 comes without Firewire port. Therefore I will add a dedicated Firewire card. Which Firewire card works optimal with LS56? Please give the full model name not only the chip set. Thanks.

Here you go both of these links are directly from focusrite:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...TMMo9hycADH2ig

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...txbQg9DHtwjWBg

They both have full explanations and card recommendations based on know supported cards with model numbers listed as well as pictures of cards, in the one that has an attached PDF document.

Jim

What about the Profire 2626? Those never get brought up...

Is the sound quality of LS56 over a saffire 40 if only DA quality counts?

I will use a saffire 40 or LS56 in a HTPC setup as DA converter without need of mic pres. Only routing is asked and no mixing.

What do you suggest for my setup?

I love the Focusrite interfaces. However, if you have the ability to wait and buy the Apollo...I would not discourage that. It is extremely impressive!

For what you are going to do the Liquid saffire 56 is a total waste of money.

The saffire pro 40 and liquid saffire pro 56 are exactly the same, except that the liquid saffire pro 56 has liquid mic pre-amps (emulates mic pre-amps from some of the best consoles), and the 200+ dollar difference is that plus the fact that the connectors are not trs/xlr combo, the LS 56 has seperate mic and line ins, unlike the saffire pro 40.

I have an HTPC at home and I am using the Azusentech card in mine, and it is just bad assed. I pass the 7.1 from the Azusentech, to my HDMI video card via a cable inside the PC, and send the signal as PCM to my HT preamps, and then from there send out to HT AMPs.
Oh and I am running linux, so If I can get that to work, I am sure you can do something similar.

I think that an interface like the Focusrites will not give you what you really want. It will not handle things like PCM and Dolby Digital, DTS, etc, correctly. I am not even sure if It can pass it. I know that the optical ports can "emulate" AES, and possibly SPDIF, but SPDIF is only 2 channels on the focusrites. if I remember correctly.

Here is the card to get for your HTPC:
Auzen X-Fi Bravura from Auzentech, Inc. : World First soundcards for Music, HTPC, and Gaming.

You should really go check out the HTPC forums on AVS fourm:
Home Theater Computers - AVS Forum

Jim

My HTPC (Windows 7 64Bit) will decode Dolby Digital, DTS, etc. by JRiver´s software MC17. MC17 sends PCM to audio interface by using ASIO. It works. http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

In JRiver forum there is a separate sub forum for soundcards and audio interfaces i.e. Steinberg MR816x Steinberg MR816x - Firewire 8 channel Audio Device - Review

After raeding some threads at Gearslutz I estimate a Focusrite Saffire 40 over a Steinberg MR816x due to better DA quality.

HTPC comes second. Mostly I hear stereo music over 3-way active loudspeakers plus subwoofer at which the active XO is done by software Acourate. AudioVero Additionally Acourate calculates a convolution which will be integrated in MC17 by JRiver Convolver. Convolution - JRiverWiki

More infos about MC17 JRiver Media Center software

You see MC17 is a powerful tool for audio and video.

In that case if htpc is second, then the pro 40 should do the job.

I have the ls 56, but I use the liquid mic pres since it is just in my home studio.

I have to be 100% honest here.... All of the interfaces in the below 5k price range all use the same A/D and D/A chips. The place where sound quality is made or broken in these interfaces is the analog components.
The focusrite gear uses some of the best sounding analog components.

Jim

With a street prize of 2500 Euro is the UA Apollo Quad out of my range. Universal Audio Apollo Quad

A Saffire 40 comes with 465 Euros and a very good sound for its prize. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40

Thats what I use for my Steinberg MR816X here, no issues

I was responding to the original post with my recommendation to save for the Apollo.

The Focusrite is a great product...I should know because I own one. But if you are even thinking that you might be willing to wait and buy the Apollo, then you should. Preamps and Conversion are only part of the equation of quality. The Apollo is high-end from end-to-end...no comparison.

Great!!

Any new comments of anyone using the LS 56 with a dbox?

Hello
dear gearheads i need your help. I will try to explain my "problem" the best that i can, so sorry for my english and my lack of technical knowledge...

my setup:

i have two of TL AUDIO C1 that goes into UA 4 710D on the rear panel inputs. Then UA is connected to my saffire 56 via adat. So there are 8 channells of external preamps and 8 channells on the saffire 56.
Now i want to hook up my AKAI GX210D reel to reel with saffire 56. I will record a live band directly to tape.
So i am thinking that i can use my saffire 56 as a summing box instead of a mixer (which i dont have). So my question is - can i route my MIX from saffire56 outputs directly to AKAI and bypass the converters on saffire, because of the latency.
I hope i made myself clear enough and again sorry if i talking nonsense.
thanks a lot, you people are the best!
take care, Luka