ok, so maybe for professiolnals things are being not so very good, but positive sign of this negative digital ip situation is that so many of the pseurs and ******s can be remove from equations and those who are not the porfessionals can make the unheard of musics.
So much software now that does not cost large amounts of money and even now a person can make a coomplete and free digital studio with a the quality of so much freesware.
Even the hardware is cheap, and free international distrubution via soundclud or bandycamp.

so you want to be rolling stones, beatles pink floyeds etc, that gig is gone forever and never coming back.
most of the kids have no consept that their doing anything thast could be construed as not 10% legit and even if they does, its not the same type of crime som hear would leave the people to believe and that in one way is the crucks of the matter.

For you industry pople, yes digital is thievery and googogle youtube spotfy scum of the earth to be taken down, but for some this is an extension of hows the world is working,
Not saying its good or honesty, but when has world ever been good or honesty. many other badly behavor and encouraged and no-one live buy the word in the Bible (hahah as if), so people are having to adjusts and thats what som many are not understanding, is that its all changed already foerver

If you are happy to stay hobbyist and local there has never been a better time.
there has never been a worse time (in over 50 years) to set out on a long term career as a musician.
Almost all hobbyists I meet and talk to are passionate about one day making music full time.
So overall, I think it's a sad outlook for those passionate about their music.
But yes, on the face of it, it's never been easier to start a career. It's just how far and how long you can take it that's the issue.

I think it's made it worse. I mean - 99% of the stuff on bandcamp is just utter crap!!! I'd rather deal with the 80% crap the industry shows us.... .... all the home revolution has shown me is there are a hell of a lot of people out there who shouldnt be allowed anywhere near a microphone/guitar/copy of Ableton..... mind you - also found some great stuff

when four track cassette decks came along I thought... wow, this is a game changer! what kind of great new interesting music will we hear when bands are no longer copying the big bands because studio time is expensive and they want to show they're as good at rock as AC/DC...

what we got instead of 5 demos a week of knock offs, we got 50 demos a week of knock offs. instead of 3 demos a week of out of tune, off key, nonsensical, nonmusical delusional recordings, we got 30... and so it goes today.

well, it turns out more paints and more canvases don't make more picasso's. never have. anyone can paint, the barrier to entry is pretty low. anyone can write a book, the barrier to entry is even lower...

no matter how low the barrier to entry to produce a specific type of art, access to product does not mean more great art.

so yes, a great time to be a gear obsessed hobbyist who love to tinker with knobs and sound, and for $50 a year you can even put it on Itunes if you want. not sure the net result is really any better than any other time in the last 50 years, and it a lot of ways it actually appears to be worse.

I wonder how the industry will evolve in the next 10 years. I sure hope record labels embrace the changes and we work something out.

When I first read Jimmy Webbs book about songwriting he called songwriting the "world second oldest profession" !!!
I remember thinking has there ever been a human being more obsessed with anything like he was ever before in the history of the earth??? Dude was dedicated ! Dude was also able to make a living at it ....... Back then .........

He also didn't perform his songs , he left that to others who could do that better than he could .............

Will there be any more Jimmy Webbs ?

but if those making rubbish gets better an follow through becuase of loving the music is good, and those good may become the great because of dedication

an yes, maybe more crap tinkerersd but if theres one more personality who makes great music who coukldnt do so before, that is a good thing yes,
youd prefer theyre not to make music an be somewhere else other than supporting this industriy

like these?

Pro-Music's Global Guide To Music Services - hypebot

USA & Canada
USA

7digital
AmazonMP3
AOL Music
Artist Direct
BearShare
eMusic
iMesh
iTunes
MySpace Music
MOG
MTV
Music Hub
Music Unlimited
Muve Music
Pandora
rara.com
Rdio
Rhapsody
Slacker
Spotify
Vevo
Yahoo! Music
YouTube
Zune

Canada

7digital
Archambault
AstralRadio
BBM Music
Bell Mobility
Blackberry Music Store
CBC Music
Classical Archives
Deezer
eMusic
Galaxie Mobile
HMV Digital Canada
iTunes Canada
Mediazoic
Motime
Music Unlimited
Puretracks
rara.com
Rdio
Slacker
TELUS
urMusic
VEVO
YouTube
Zik
Zune

Nothing has changed.
In the 60's, 70's and 80's people got better with dedication and love for music.
The difference now is you are much less likely to be financially rewarded for all that dedication and hard work.

here's a genius solution from beck... you provide the labor...

Beck 'Produces' A Genius Innovation That Appeals To The User-Generated Generation - Forbes

yup. about 50% less likely...

I was referring too(my post was quite general) the approach of creating something that cannot be copied and changing the perspective on music.

As an example....Illegal downloading of music. I am all for legal downloads and never pirate music. In this day and age though the majority of people(excluding those diehard fans) see music as a free product so are more willing to pirate.

There have been plenty of threads about this and a bloody bath doesn't need to be encouraged. I personally think a different outlook would benefit everyone. Everything is evolving mate and I don't think that restricting the internet is a winning battle.

Which means the energy gets diverted and completely spent on other things that pay the bills...

So the timeless classics don't ever come into existance...

Which means the freehadist can complain about the dearth of really good, memorable composition and songcraft all the while ignoring that what is reaped is what is sown ...

At one point it didn't look like trying to end strip mining was a winning battle....


Remember when Kennedy said " we choose to go to the moon not because it's easy , but because it's hard !!"


How many people said he was nuts and that it wasn't a winning battle ??

Yea I understand what you mean. The only way though that I can see it happening would be if the government just went ahead and pushed it through without any regard for the population(reminds me of ACTA to some extent).

Oh wait that's already happening(megaupload).Just look at the 2012 NDAA


This really worries me though. This is just the start and who knows what this can snowball into.

that's hyperbole and very myopic as well

it's happening, slowly... but happening...

Google's Good Work for Artists...

yeah, too bad nobody ever ended up making a great album on a cassette 4 track.

beck? you mean that guy who started his career and had his biggest hit from a home recording? that beck?

But you're making your usual mistake of assuming just because someone posts general outcomes, they don't accept it ever happened.
Sorry clunky sentence....
But basically, 4 track cassette or even ADAT, have been successfully used to make great albums, but never became dominant formats.
How many albums has Beck made at his home?
There are accepted norms, and then there are exceptions.
Home recorded albums even now are not the norm, nor were ADAT/Cassette recorded albums. I think that is the actual point.

nebraska waas 4 track

Yes, we know.
McCartney (by McCartney) was recorded on a portable system at his holiday home in Scotland.
But it isn't normal to record that way, and have a successful album from it, that's the point.

also many of the punky bands.

tall dwarfs in flying nuns new zealand released all late 80 and early 90s recordings 4-tracks and we geniuss but when they became computer operated tun-smith like all other lost what make them so good

and cbs spent an estimated $250k to make it an album they could commercially release. nebraska by anyone but springsteen is still just a cassette...

but to be fair, I love the sound of cassette four tracks. there's an authenticity to it that in many ways I prefer to today's DAWs...

That's not really relevant in a thread about how there's never been a better time to be a hobbiest or someone who does music for the sheer love of doing it though

Although in fairness a thread about doing music as a hobby or for the sheer joy probably shouldn't be in the music business forum

Yes, in my post I agreed upfront there has never been a better time to be a music hobbyist, doing music for love.
I think it is relevant to point out that pretty much every person I've talked to in my life, who was doing music for the love of it, has expressed a strong desire to be working on their passion, music, full time.
And as such, I think there has never been a worse time for recent generations to have that desire.

and which song would that be? Cus dont say Loser.....

Well I will have to respectfully disagree with the OP. Sure everyones vantage point because of location is different but this is what I have witnessed:

I grew up around a couple decent music scenes in the midwest of the states. Far from any major city but, small college towns that have been known for their arts for decades. How it would work is, people come to college, meet like minded people and start jamming with them. Some times this would become a band or artist.

This group would work up the local scene, then eventually a fellow local band would start taking them on tour and things would build. Nothing ever becoming mainstream but bands selling 20-50k an album. As bands got bigger, they signed other local bands to their sub label and the process would continue and rotate every 5 years or so.

Many of these bands after their time playing wouldn't be rich, but have enough money to settle in the area, and usually use the money they earned in the band to open up some sort of local biz that was involved in music. Be it a label, coffee shop, venue, printing company etc..

I know many people in the region that I grew up with that this happened too. Also know many older guys when I got interested in the scene that were involved in earlier bands, and then working behind the scenes.

None of these people were household names, or large acts, but many made a decent living when they were young and when they got older were able to move to behind the scenes.

Since the last batch of bands in late 90s, early 00s this cycle that had gone on for 40 or so years almost instantly stopped. I have not known one band in the past 10 years that has been able to make this work.

Basically these scenes have died completely in the area I grew up in. Now when you talk to younger bands/artists they are so beaten down that they see no hope in music. It's sad, it was a very healthy way for artists to work on their craft, that is no longer possible.

Also note when I say "scene" not really talking one specific genre, these cities the genre would rotate but there was this steady upbringing of artists for decades. That pretty much over night died sadly. RIP. This is part of the reason I am interested in the state of the music biz these days.

Ha sorry for my long rambling.

look - I'm a fan of cassette four tracks, but if there were a model in music be recording on four tracks wouldn't more be released that way?

maybe, like vinyl, this could be a groovy retro movement. take your tracks from your DAW, submix into four mono tracks on a cassette and only sell the cassette four track version.

Every pirated mix would be different! LOVE IT!

I think I have my weekend project for this week!

Doh! Of course they'll probably end up here...
http://tascam.com/product/portastudio/

I play music purely for the love of it and I have no interest whatsoever in it being either a fulltime affair, nor do I expect to or covet ever receiving financial reimbursement for it.

I have no criticism of those who do, and perhaps in my early 20s may have had thought about this, but at the age I am now, I'm happy with the what I already have.

I guess it helps that I actually like my proper job, as I see quite a few jaded people I know in their early 40s with few skills, still talking about 'getting the band back together'.