Don't string me up and hang me for this thread. I'm just exploring ideas and want to understand why people hate behringer stuff so much. So make me understand please.

I tried out and listened to a friends MX9000 mixer. I also looked at the specs. I'm by no means smart or technical but I can see some obvious stuff. So to me the mic pre's didn't sound awful. They actually sounded like 'nothing'. Didn't add color, but didn't add anything atrocious, as far as I heard. The EQ's sounded pretty mellow. Nothing harsh or too atrocious there. The routing options are great; alot to work with in that respect. Lots of different outputs on the back panel as well. Summing wise, in my opinion any analog mixer sounds better summing from a DAW then ITB. Thats just my opinion though. The THD I read was .007% at +4dbu. Which was way below some "higher end" stuff that Ive read about. This thing is priced at $1200. Why does so many hate it? Has anybody really been able to compare with listening tests? I see for example, Toft boards talked about here alot. So are they THAT different from Toft boards, as an example. Has anybody specifically compared mx9000 with a Toft? Or again, any other board considered "good" or "decent". Please explain. Thanks

Do people hate Behringer?
I'm in doubt, look at their growth and imaginably big sales figure for years.
Just some snob gearslutzs as me don't like their products and we are in deep minority

I've been suckered into buying a handful of Behringer items over the years: two small mixers and two headphone amps. Two of the four items were defective -- had bad channels. One of the remaining two sounds like ass. I mean, it actually sounds like it would sound if you plugged a nice signal into your ass and tried to monitor through your ass.

So, I don't actually hate Behringer but my short experience is that their gear often doesn't work and sometimes sounds like ass.

Some people hate them because they steal designs from good companies, but it's hard for me to believe that competent people have designed the stuff that Behringer is selling. If it's true, then they are not very good thieves.

-synthoid

People tend to hate Behringer for the following reasons, in order of frequency...

1. Branding
2. Sound
3. Quality
4. Authenticity

My list for not liking them is completely inverted to this...

My biggest problem with Behringer is that they rip off other people's designs... alter them slightly then mass produce them... I'm a hypocrite though because I own some Behringer gear... so yeah...

Their build quality does suck. They use the cheapest parts possible... sometimes under spec or ever OUT of spec (according to the schematic). I get the impression that if the thing will last 90 days without exploding, they're not going to worry too much beyond that.. they obviously don't build things for longevity... A whole rash of their ada8000's had really bad toroidal power transformers that died after like 5 months... You get weird things that only happen with Chinese produced gear, like polarity inversion or channel irregularity ... all things that come from a bad or non-existent QA department.

And that brings us to sound. Not ALL Behringer gear sounds bad. Remember, they're ripping off what are generally POPULAR designs... the problem comes from the components, build quality and any "short cuts" or liberties they may have taken with the original schematic. If the design is simple with a low part count then it may spec as well as whatever it is they ripped off and actually sound good to boot... most of the time however, the cheap pots, voltage regulators, caps, etc induce more noise, produce more distortion and generally aren't up to the rigors of a professional studio.

As for branding.... well... just stick some tape over the logo and write in "High End" ... should make you feel better... heh

Behringer have targeted the bottom end of the market. Somebody had to do it. But this means they have to skimp on absolutely everything: stolen designs, cheapest parts, slave labour - whatever it takes. So it's not surprising that this is the cheapest, lowest quality stuff you can get your hands on that is aimed at 'pro audio' use. Why it has to be compared against high end stuff beats me.

In their defense - everyone in 'pro audio' steals designs. Maybe they don't all get caught with photocopied circuit boards, but's that's perhaps a minor technicality when the basic circuit designs are fairly much public domain.

Slaves have to eat too - so it doesn't worry me too much who builds my gear. It's all made in China now anyway, so 'respected brand names' mean nothing anymore. I know from experience that you can sink serious money into big brand names and that stuff can crap out sooner than a piece of junk, and cost a lot more to fix.

The name on the tin shouldn't matter to anyone. Or whether it can or will break. Stuff can always be repaired or modified.

The only serious question is whether a piece of gear does what you want it to do.

The only Behringer stuff I have are a pair of monitors. They could suck more.

The issues that I've come across involve build quality more than sonics.
A few of my friends have bought Behringer and, while they have been positive about the sonic bang for buck ratio, unfortunately whatever they have bought has invariably broken down after a year or so.
Arguably, Behringer's early pieces seemed to be more reliable than modern day stuff. I can't remember the early 90's stuff breaking down so much: for example, their early compressors and the Edison (which was the only Behringer unit that I've ever felt the temptation to buy, BTW).

Kind of a brown sound?

Right, brown and sputtery. Nothing you'd choose to listen to on purpose.

-synthoid

lol.....Browninger.....heh

My experience, too. Had a pair of Truth monitors. Blew them twice and repair costs were incredibly high.
I have patchbays and a line mixer I use regularly and it's working fine.

My BCF2000 has been going for around 4 years. It's probably the best value item I've ever bought and it's not even a copy of any other existing product although obviously the R&D money came from sales of other products.

As for the Eurorack I used to own... that was awful. I'm sure their new mixers are indeed better.

what's behringer?

hi,
specs are just that, numbers on a page.
one of these mixers might sound good with little load, but, with all guns blazin', the story will be quite different.
it's not only with Behringer.
sonically, they aren't the best.
i have the misfortune to own an Ultragain micpre/line driver.
this thing sound ok at low to med settings, but gets very silvery and harsh when pushed. and that's converting -10 to +4 line level!!
the mic pres have the same silvery tops that might fool someone at lower listening levels, but at higher setting just sound horrible.
sorry, i can't be any kinder than that.
DR9.

+1...My bcf 2000 is going on it's 5th. year and no problems at all..
Also I have a B2 pro mic that has been great...sounds good and no problems!!!

Hate on!!!!!

It would be fun to record a whole album with behringer gear only.

I've used their digital mixer (DDX 3216) for a couple of years now in our rehearsal space. That things is unbelievable!
Preamps are about the worst thing you could say about it, but (/sound of shotgun safetyswitches/) their DSP is so good I would take this ~600€ mixer over an 01V or even an 02R anyday. Much better thought out in terms of routing, flexibility and much better effects. For a cheap extra you get 16i/o trough adat wich makes this thing the ideal rehearsalroom mixer and demo recorder. And when u are done with it, or hate it's sound, it's still the cheapest 16ch daw controler with motorised faders u will find.

@OP, I tried their MX9000 a few times in a tape setup. I concluded the same thing, preamps are a bit 'cheap-focusritey' but I acctually liked the EQ very much.
Built quality was on the low side, but seriously if u want to avoid problems, buy two at that price point :D

It's easy to dfegad on behringer, cause they do copy a lot and they do make a lot of sh*t also, but they have some really good/usefull stuff to!

For example, their POWERPLAY HA4700 enables me to use 50/50 cueing when making monitor mixes, and that saves me piles of time and allways gives artists a quick and decent heaphone mix, instead of qiockly setting up +-20 channels by means of auxes or just saying "use the CR mix".

Alex

I had a Behringer UB2442FX mixer, started my studio with it 5+ years ago when I wasn't too serious about all this stuff. It worked... and I couldn't really compare because not only has my gear substantially grown since but so have my skills.

I will say that the Behringer mixer died. Only piece of hardware that has even actually died out on me like that. Channel 1, then 2, then PS started to come out, then dead.

I still use a Behringer headphone amp. Works great. I have better monitoring than other more professional and traditional studio have. Nobody complains. It's been working great for 5 years or more.

simple thing: a "high end" "elite" snob always hates "mass" people that can be happy on "low budget".

funniest thread in this forum is where the behringer ada8000 ****in blows away the lynx aurora. that delivers a whole lotta truth.

Back in the late nineites I used one of their compressors. I happened to like it.

an album of covers...uncredited of course, like a certain best seller of '69heh

Andy

About Ripping off. Everyone´s ripping off. Never seen a 1176 clone?
In that respect Behringer has every right to steal Mackie´s bad ideas.
I personally am very happy with a brand like Behringer. In the perfect world I wouldn´t have had any of their products but in this best of all possible worlds they have a place. The headphone amp I´ve had for 5 years now and it works. No I wouldn´t mix with it but it has enough gain, 8 outputs and even an eq. Since it´s behringer you have to take some highs out, maybe add some lows and off you go. Make records. They have cable testers, Live Monitors and small mixers for home use. All very useful and cheap. The only beef I have is with some of their marketing stuff. If they just designed a simple compressor that looked like shite but sounded good (RNC, anyone?). But no it has to be a T1959 tube compressor with big knobs and vu meters that looks good but sounds like shite.

Sends shivers down my spine

Except that headphone amp can be a bit embarrassing depending on the cans you use. When you drive 4 sets of hard to drive impedance your musicians foldback disappears in a sea of filthy fuzz at not even very loud levels.......

wow, good feedback! Okay, so but what about this behringer ada8000 vs aurora thing? Anybody have that link, I had problems finding it.

And back to this, I can't help to feel strange about the mx9000. This friend of mine happens to be an engineer. He's actually DONE full albums with this board and the albums sound so good. I mean, is he that good? Or perhaps the mx9000 is their pivot point as far as the effort they put into their products? Mind you, he's had the board for 5, going on 6 years now and never replaced a part, broke, or had anything breakdown yet. I dunno! It's very confusing to me

When I had no money in back in 2000/2001 (because of a divorce) and decided to build a little studio at home for my own recreation and fun I bought some behringer stuff. it was cheap and gave me the opportunity to start recording. I can't tell you how much peace of mind I got from getting back into composing and recording at a time when I really needed it in my life- so, for that reason I'm thankful behringer sells on the cheap, and the gear actually worked for me and I didn't care so much if it sounded like a$$ or not. All of us here can appreciate how making and recording music feeds the soul, right?

I've purchased much better gear since then but only because my ears grew to demand it. Simple.

But I still have a UB1204 mixer that works 7-8 years later and a 2 channel pre that still works 7-8 years later. The other stuff I've ebay'd for fair $$ and it was in working condition.

The mixer comes in handy from time to time but I really don't use the preamp any more.

I guess what I'm getting at is, I think it's great they make stuff newbies can get cheap so they can get started on having fun and learning about home recording. For a lot of people in the world, that little convenience means alot to them.

still going

Lynx Aurora 16 vs Behringer ADA8000

i'm hoping some tech engineers can weigh in on a/d/a design and the ongoing supposed advances in the field, for better or worst.

also in fairness it's a clone of an rme circuit, so i guess they get most of the credit. just not the money.

I have heard amazing mixes done with behringer gear in the signal chain. The engineer certainly didn't feel like limited by the gear he had. The way people talk about certain gear you would think that it would either be impossible to make good music with it or it would take some kind of enormous effort to work around it's limitations. Check out the thread where people preferred the behringer to the lynx in a blind shoot out. That speaks volumes.

You mean the Aurora. Yes, it does speak volumes and makes me consider getting one, but I don't believe that this should be thought of as a quality gauge of all Behringer gear.......be a bit harder to prefer a Behringer pre to a decent one, blind or not.......

that's certainly up for debate, if you are talking about a 'colorless' pre.

It's notable that the ada8000 has 'cheap' analogue stages (and you can't even bypass the mic pres), people seem to think that this makes a profound difference in the sound of the converters yet the shootout says otherwise.

Between '96 and '01 we cranked out thousands of radio/TV spots and had a Behringer Composer strapped across the 2-Mix in all six of our mix/edit rooms.
Prior to Composers they had been using 1176s, but they were not stereo linked.
Although, we still used 1176s for front end compression I just didn't like the idea of anything stereo been compressed with compressors that were not stereo linked.

The Behringers were OK.

We presently use small 6 ch Behringer mixers in out break-out rooms.
They are good enough, but when people STEAL THEM they are only $49.00 to replace!
They are maybe a bit noisier than other mixers, but they are acceptable.
They have held up for four years of fairly heavy touring use.

Still, I won't use Behringer stuff for real music mixes.