Hi again , you seem to keep mentioning the J12's but you will never buy them so quit talking about them, sure FBT got the sound right on them but failed to make them aesthetically pleasing so strike them off you're list ,also i didn't mention the V series i knew you wouldn't like those so please listen and look at the FLASH series models, and don't be afraid to try the FLASH12HDA it's pricier and a bit heavier (19.4kg's) but wow it sounds great i know you'll say it's too heavy i find anything 20kg's down easy to lift maybe you don't? i also like the look of the flash series can't really falt them in that department.

You haven't been paying attention to quite literally every web forum where the subject matter is technically applicable, have you?

I guess it's par for the course on a place with a name like Gearslutz...

Well.. yes, because I don't work with anyone at all who uses backing tracks... it is 100% live. Classical guitar, flamenco guitar, fiddles, mandolins, banjo's, resonator guitars, mountain dulcimers and that kind of thing. Sometimes other 'world' instruments, including percussion. All in traditional, ethnic and folk music genres, or classical recitals. So it is a very different application from most, possibly, but the musicians (and audiences) tend to be quite demanding and discerning and accuracy is really important.

Yes the Proel Flash range looks pretty good but I've decided to hang on a little longer and see if anything new will be coming out at PSL. The Flash 12HDA looks interesting but yes heavier than I want to be carrying for these small gigs. Also at that price there are other contenders such as the RCF HD12a, RCF HD32a, Yamaha DXR12, Turbosound Sienna TSP122-AN, JBL PRX712, dB technologies LVX12, EV EKX12p and QSC K12. If I could afford the budget of the Proel Flash 12HDA I'd be inclined to lean towards some of the others I've listed as none are slouches in audio performance and I think quite a few look smarter.
Unfortunately I can't stretch to that budget unless I sold my DXR15's aswell which I wouldn't really want to do as I use these by themselves on some gigs where I don't need subs and they do a brilliant job of putting out deep bass and kick drum. If any of the 12" speakers I mentioned were able to at least match the bass output of the DXR15's at at least the same max output without limiting or clipping then maybe that would be an option. However, the DXR15's are working for me at the moment so I'd be reluctant to change.
The FBT's get a lot more than use the DXR15's because not only do I use them for FOH on the smaller acoustic gigs, I use them at least once a week for workshops and rehearsals. They also get used as wedge monitors on the largest gigs when using the DXR15's + subs for FOH. The DXR15's get used on larger function and corporate work plus the odd venue where subs would be an overkill but I still want decent depth of bass. Because of this I really want to get something as lightweight as possible. Some weeks I'm using them quite a few days and I don't really want to be carrying something near 20kg on a daily basis for these jobs.

I've heard rumours that at least one company is releasing a new range of portable active speakers at PSL so it will be worth waiting to see what is released.

Fidelity, light weight, bass response, and inexpensive is pretty tall order. I looked at the specs of the Altos and a 2" VC woofer with a ceramic magnetic that still has the box weighing in under 30 lbs means it's a pretty flimsy driver and a pretty flimsy box overall.... and no, I've not heard them. I do know that if I were buying speakers I'd be using several times a week though, no way would it be those.

Off the top of my head the best thing I can think of that fits everything, except maybe budget, is something like the FBT ProMaxx 12A. Loud, light, better drivers, preset tunings which may be helpful. No, not the prettiest things in the world, but seem capable. Then again, I use RCF 745A and it wins no pageants, but damn, it sounds good.

mojo filters , Err not sure what you're on about please explain?

The FLASH12AV2 would be fine for what you use a speaker for , think you need to try it since you have a local dealer that probably has one in stock or could get one in,
i agree that the V series doesn't look great but actually think it looks a bit better than the j series kind of space age like the DB Opera , me i like to cancel out every possible option then i'd wait for something new if those options didn't meet my expectations , i'm actually going to try and get a local demo of a few of the Proel range.

Since i recently picked up a second hand Flash 12a cheaply and compared it to my LD-SYSTEMS STINGER 12A G2 i was surprised at how similar both were in output and overall sound quality even though the Preol is rated at 250 watts rms and the LD at 400 watts rms you can't always go by specs they both limit at about the same time.

dickiefunk , have you tried the DB FLEXSYS-F12? the LVX you mentioned is the replacement as it has almost identical specs but they've changed the looks a bit, i had a pair of the 15" model on loan for a month and they were nice, i didn't think they would be loud enough for FOH but for smaller gigs and foldback they'd be ideal if you can pick up a cheap new or second hand pair i would jump at it , here is a link to a UK store that seems to have one at a good price but may be out of stock.

FLEXSYS-F12 DB Technologies FLEXSYS F12 Active Speaker 12" / 1" 800 Watt at Westend DJ, London

Yes the dB Technologies Flexsys F12 looks great! I've not given to much attention to dB Technologies as I know a few colleagues who've had bad experiences with customer support. Also, not sure what support would be like from them for a discontinued product? The cheapest price I've seen in-stock is £599 and these stores only price match if the other company has them in stock for £439.

@ abzurd : I know what you mean about the flimsy boxes. The Alto TS212's and EV ZLX12p's have very flimsy boxes where if you press hard on the sides they bend!! There is also a funny resonance when you tap on the sides. The construction of the X-Lites cabinet also feels quite thin but not as much as the Alto TS2 and EV ZLX12p. The cabinet of the Alto TS112a is much more solid and as far as I could tell the FBT J12a's feel even more solid.

Ideally I don't want to spend more than £700ish on a secondary pair of speakers and am thinking I may have to sacrifice appearance a little. I know I keep going on about the FBT J12a's but that's because I was genuinely very impressed with the sound of these and at the end of the day that's the most important factor (along with reliability). The J12a's are made in FBT's Italian factory and I haven't heard of any issues with these. I find the appearance of the J12a's ok (its growing on me) and about the same as the Alto TS112a's (but with noticeably higher output, depth of bass and overall smoothness which was one of my criteria). They also weigh 3kg less than the Alto's which was another thing on my list of criteria. The only thing against really is they don't look as smart as the X-Lites. The speakers that I really don't like the look of are the FBT Evo-Maxx, Pro-Maxx, RCF Art series and dB Technologies Opera series etc.

What would be perfect for me is if FBT were to update their J-Series and give them a facelift like the X-Lite Series with full grill but still weigh pretty much the same and have the same tonal characteristic.

Never mind. Thought you made a pertinent observation, but as normal this neverending dissection of minute performance differences ploughs on and on and on and on and on...

Hi again , i just bought my second DXR12 today i was only using one along with an LD-SYSTEMS STINGER 12 for foldback and small gigs which worked quite well but the imbalance of each side being different finally got to me when using them as small FOH, any way tried them in the brick garage with tin roof today (worst possible space for sound) and with extended bass sounded fantastic i really don't know why you don't just get a pair of these dickiefunk you're already used to the sound as you have the larger dxr 15"s, and they're only 19kg's surely you can lift these right? they're not heavy i find them quite easy,now these do have a very smooth sound at really loud volumes i got my pair for total of $1370 AUD which is cheap here considering they're $1100 retail each here is a link to a store in UK for a great price.

Yamaha 12″ 2-way active loud Speaker. DXR12 - UnaTechnology.co.uk

I wish they could release a full front grille for the PROMAXX like they did for the RCF art312a they'd sell tons more of the speakers as i know i would have bought them if they looked better.

I heard the14" version and boy did they sound both loud and clear but then i love FBT gear had the 115A VERVE'S and they were really nice just a bit big to fit in my new car, the Presonus 328ai's i have now are just as good but are a dedicated mid hi not much bass so not an all rounder but are really loud and clear look great & for a 23kg box is really easy to lift.

I don't think they're going to update the J series so you'll be stuck with them as they are i can't imagine you using them in a church they do look average i had the jolly series and was only really impressed with the loudness and bass response ,the horn was very sharp they must have improved the horn on the j series my local distributor said he will no longer be importing the J series as he and other employees agree that there is not that much difference between the X-LITES And the J SERIES you obviously strongly disagree with this i suppose the J series has stronger plastic if they're similar to the Jolly series.

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes I've not ruled on t the DXR12's as I do like the DXR15's. However, the DXR15's are only an extra 3kg heavier than the 12"s so I might as well use them (though they are obviously bigger).

The J-Series sound noticeably smoother than the X-Lite series and the cabinet was felt noticeably more solid and dense. The X-Lites sounded very bright compared the the J-Series but not as much as the new Alto TS2's!!

Seem like a few of you are using the alto's.

I'm curious if you guys think the ts210 or even the older ts110 would be able to handle monitor duties. Right now my mackie thump 15's are doing the job. No problem with volume but I find them a little harsh on the top end. I mostly want to downsize my monitors and am wondering if the 10" alto's will be able to give me enough volume for vocals and some sax and some guitar. We don't play particularly loud.

I took advice from Abzurd and bought a pair of RCFART310As for monitor duties last weekend. They had been used by a DJ (!) and as we packed them up, he commented that he had tried Alto 110s before. After 3 speaker failures, he decided to give up on them and switch to the RCFs, after which he had no problems.....just saying.

I use the Alto TS110's for monitors and they have been great. I've had no issues with the various Alto speakers that I've owned.

Dickie, how do think the Newer TS212" speaker model would be with an eleven rack?
as you say the new model is a tad brighter, would this add or detract for an eleven rack use.?
The New model certainly looks better and lighter.
I know you use speakers for PA duties use but any insight would be appreciated.

cheers
M

Hi,

I've not run guitar through the new TS2 Altos so I couldn't say from first hand experience but I found their tone to sound quite scooped and bright. From knowing this I would expect guitars to sound quite thin and harsh without EQ?

Thanks for that Dickie.
As they have reduced the weight of the speaker and cab, this may be where the brightness is coming from. On a positive, i should get a good deal on the earlier version now. Really need to A/B i suppose.
Grille replacement (earlier version) is also a possibility for a cleaner look.
cheers
M

Just picked up a pair of TS212's today, giving them a decent workout at karaoke night, and a wedding tomorrow (paired with 2 PRX618-XLF's).

They're sounding nice! Great bass response and clarity. I have used the TS112a's for a couple of years now (I own 6 of them), and love em. Tried a pair of ZLX112's and hated em. Too weird and boomy sounding (couldn't get a decent EQ from my mixer).

The Alto's sound great without any EQ. Loving the light weight and look!

Had read and heard good words about the TS one series...so bought an alto TS-212 for the first time to try (had plans to buy 2 TS215s and 2 TS212s..thank God I didn't)...twice the teeter horn blew up...once on 3rd time use and again on 2nd time use thereafter. Have had dB and Behringer active speakers with no problems....but the TS212 is either a bad product or bad piece. Instead have bought a dB cromo15+ now...seems pretty good. Shall never buy Alto again. My TS 212 is gone back to workshop....don't know what to do with this piece of sh*t!

I picked up an Alto TS210 this week as I was curious to hear the newer voicing of the TS2 range in their 10" model. The older TS110a impressed me for the money but they sounded quite boxy and lacked a little detail. Having spent a few days A/B'ing them I have to say that I am extremely impressed with the TS210a and think it's a noticeable step up in audio quality.
For th comparison I had both the TS110a and TS210a connected to separate mix outputs on my A&H QU-PAC and set the levels identically. I was then able to switch between each speaker at the press of a single button which made it extremely easy to hear the differences between these two speakers. I ran two female vocalists, one male vocalist, some keyboards and a wide range of pre-recorded music through them to get an idea of how they performed. Whilst listening to these it was very obvious that the bass extension goes much lower, and the highs are more defined. This created the impression that the TS210a's sounded bigger and more open than the TS110a. In comparison the TS110a sounds quite boxy, honky and less detailed. Also, the TS210a is lighter, has a smarter appearance, dual monitor angles and two handles. My current TS110a's have seen a lot of use, been driven hard as monitors with loud bands wanting bass guitar through them and they have been used on many outdoor events in all kinds of weather. They have been totally reliable. I paid £197 for a brand new TS210a which is a complete bargain and I think they really raise the bar for audio quality at this price bracket. Whilst I'm aware of more expensive alternatives such as the DXR10's etc I was already pretty happy with the TS110a's as monitors so couldn't justify the extra cash. The only feature I really missed with the TS110a was it only had a single wedge monitor angle and there has been a surprising amount of situations where I wanted to flip the monitor around. I'll definitely be picking up some more of these for monitoring duties and I've been so impressed with this little TS210a's that I'm considering pairing them TS212Sub's to use for FOH for small acoustic gigs.

Thanks for the reviews Dickie. It seems like you preferred the new 10inch model to the old, but preferred the old 12 inch model to the new one. Is that correct?

I use a few TS110a for the occasional acoustic gig and have thought they offered a good sound (particularly the mid-range) for the money, but am always considering the next upgrade...

I wasn't able to do a direct a/b of the Alto TS112a and TS212a so can't say for definite. When I had the Alto TS212a here I was comparing it to the FBT X-Lite 12a which I much preferred. I'm also not saying the Alto TS212a is a bad speaker as they offer excellent value for money. However, I seem to remember being happier with the Alto TS112a than I was with the TS212a.
When it comes to the TS210a I was able to do a fairly extensive comparison with the TS110a and I definitely preferred the new version.

I managed to listen to a load of FBT speakers at a demo day over the weekend including both the latest Vertus CS1000 and older Vertus CLA systems along with the Promaxx 14a, Mitus, 152a and J12a. They also had various FBT subs there aswell. I was really shocked by the Vertus CS1000 system which put out a surprisingly big sound considering its size! Also, the Mitus 125a sounded great but weighs as much as my ASC KW181 subs!! They are also in a completely different price bracket for my budget. I did get a chance to hear the J12a's with and without a sub (FBT Subline 15a) and I really liked what I heard for the price! They sounded surprisingly good when driven hard and stayed clear without the harshness of practically every budget speaker I've tried within their price range.
Since the demo day a pair of FBT J12a's came up at a seriously good price so I've bought them and they should be here today. I'm going to be doing some thorough comparisons between the J12a's and X-Lite12a's over the next few days. I'll also be trying the J12a's out on a gig with 4 vocalists, bass and keys in a couple of days.

Just finished trying out the FBT J12a's today. I set them up alongside my FBT X-Lite 12a's and Yamaha DXR15's. I used a wide range of pre recorded music and a couple of vocalists. The first thing I noticed was how loud they are! I had both the X-Lite's and J12a's set at zero on their back. I ran them both from separate mix outputs on an A&H QU-PAC with the levels matched identically so it was easy to switch between speakers with a single button press. With everything set identically the J12a's were much louder than the X-Lite 12a's. They were also louder than the DXR 15's which was quite a shock. I had to lower the output of the J12a's to less than 10 o'clock where both the X-Lite's and DXR's were set at 12 o'clock. One other thing I noticed was the J12a's had a lot of hiss compared to both the X-Lites and DXR's.
When it came to sound, the J12a's went noticeably deeper than the X-Lites and vocals sounded both clearer and more detailed. The overall sound of the J12a's just sounded more open with clearer mids and smoother highs than the X-Lites. With the DSP setting left on original, the J12a's sounded almost as deep as the X-Lites but with less muddy low mids. Whilst the J's sounded pretty good, I still much preferred the sound of the DXR15's. THE DXR's had great clarity in both the mids and highs with greater bass extension.
The J12a's have a much harder plastic cabinet than the X-Lites and are noticeably lighter but frustratingly only one handle. They are also a little bigger than the X-Lites and with the single handle they are a little clumsy to stand mount. Whilst the X-Lites are slightly heavier they feel easier to handle and mount on stands. Also, the higher level hiss has sadly put me off the J12a's which is a real shame as they are nice sounding speakers. However, I'd really like to try out the new FBT Ventis 112a and Mitus 112a at some point in the future out of curiosity. They may be a potential upgrade for my DXR's though I'm in no hurry to change those at all.