Thanks much for the info. I don't have surround sound requirements, so your requirements are more complex than are mine. Yet the flexibility of IP audio is where I am headed. I could see running a Crane Song (or Grace? I'd have to look closer) controller along with DAD (or Merging) with Dante/Ravenna/AES67. And if a stereo DAC interface from the DAD with MOM running into my active monitors beat that of DAD or Merging running into the Avocet IIA then I'd consider moving to the DAD with MOM.

I'll be honest, the MOM does not make sense to me. $1200 for a controller (and that's all it is) that still leaves a certain amount of guessing to is bonkers . The software control (or via Eucon+iPad or Eucon+Artist Mix; the software remote is controllable by Eucon) is where it's at for control of the DAD -- and that's included with the original price.

Outside of that, the much nicer Colinbroad TMC-1 Penta to manage the DAD (which actually has direct features for setup, etc.)
TMC-1-Penta Product Page

Thanks for the reference to the TMC-1, of which I was unaware. Running a nice controller such as the Avocet or Grace into active monitors is hard to beat.

Today is a good day:



First impressions- it sounds fantastic and a big upgrade from the SPL MTC2381.

I had high hopes for the Heritage Audio RAM 2000. Installed one two weeks ago and I really like the way it sounds and works.

However I'm returning it because the talkback button has an unacceptably loud pop noise that is generating complaints from musicians. This is with the TB mic gain set to zero. I contacted Heritage Audio about it and they offered no solution. Bummer.

If something works for you in the market, go for it. If you want something custom (any number of inputs digital or analog, any number of speakers, endless routing capabilities, use internal converter or any other you want and so on...) you can’t touch Crookwood.

Let me add a few comments about the AX32 and Pro Mon solution based on our experiences so far.

The AX32 and Pro Mon is basically designed to be one of the most flexible monitor controllers on the market. We have seen that most off-the-shelf monitor controllers offer a fixed number and types of inputs and outputs. They typically also only support formats up to e.g. 5.1 or 7.1 and they come with one type of remote control. We wanted instead to provide a flexible alternative to these "fixed" solutions.

The AX32 and Pro Mon can be configured with pretty much any number and type of inputs and outputs, whether analog, AES, MADI, Dante or even SDI embedding/de-embedding. It can also be configured for any audio format ranging from mono to full 64 ch. Dolby ATMOS.

As remote control you can choose between the MOM, the free Pro Tools Control app for iPad (even if you don't use Pro Tools!), the Avid S6 or the TMC-1 from Colin Broad.

You can even have multiple MOM's on the same system so you can have one for the sound engineer, another for the producer and a third one for the artist. The MOM can even be used in combination with the Pro Tools Control app and the S6 so you can combine the iPad control with the tactile control of the MOM.

On top of that, the AX32 and Pro Mon can do summing, talkback, you can have multiple monitor groups, split outputs, and even more. And then I haven't even covered what our upcoming SPQ speaker processing card can do ;-).

So basically the AX32 and Pro Mon provides you with your choice of interfaces, your choice of audio formats and your choice of remote control.

All of this may sound like overkill for many music studios, but that is not necessarily the case. One the "smallest" AX32/Pro Mon users I know of simply has two speaker sets, a 2.1 and a stereo pair. He bought an AX32 with 16 mic/line inputs for studio and location recording so he decided to go for a MOM as well rather than having an external monitor controller with the hassle of cabling, power etc. So he has 16 mic pre's, A/D converter, D/A converter and monitor controller all in one 2 U box.

That doesn't mean the AX32 and Pro Mon is the perfect solution for everybody. Some will choose the AX32 and Pro Mon for its flexibility, some for will choose it for its sound quality (check out what George Massenburg has to say about it: YouTube), and some will choose it because they want a compact "all in one" solution.

And others will go for a completely different solution because that's what fits them. After all, this forum would be quite boring if everybody bought the same gear .

So now you hopefully know a bit more about the thoughts that went into the AX32 and Pro Mon.

Many of you have more of your own, or others people money than I do...and don’t get me wrong I am a GS... But the original post seems to indicate that a free solution may exist... Your interface and it’s software, and or DAW software... You can purchase an inexpensive add on for the unbalanced part.

Again I love gear and almost got the Dangerious Spaceship controller, but do I need it?

I got the Drawmer MC2.1, which works well, but do I even need that? My interface and its software does all it does minus the phone input...and like the poster said I don’t need talkback...so?

Smarter, and better financed GSes, please reply.

Thanks,

- Sean Ryder Williams

Checking into this! It may be a great fit for me.

Any GSers have any feedback on "Your interface and it’s software, and or DAW software... You can purchase an inexpensive add on for the unbalanced part."

Cheers,

- SRW

You should post your own thread in one of the other forums instead of reviving and going off on a tangent on this one. The OP asked for the best.

You're asking for budget. Kind of two different things worthy of starting its own thread not in High End. Try "So much gear, so little time" or "Low End Theory." If your Drawmer suits your needs, it's a budget enough device. Also, in this new thread, you should specify what you want this monitor controller to do since you want to stick to using the DAW for most of the monitor controller functions (Speaker switcher, DAC conversion, analogue/digital volume knob, etc?)

But in a different thread and in a different sub-forum if you want helpful responses.

Grace m905. Rocking my world here. Considered the Avocet as well, but ended up with the Grace. I do with it had a more advanced bass management system though, but sounds like you don't need it. It will do more than what you ask above.

Fair enough... People have money to burn... He's asking for a solution, not a way to spend money... Or maybe this is where those with disposable income come to talk about the the newest gear porn to waste it on. It's not a question of who can be the slutiest, and be seduced and programed by the gear pimps to spend your money... Its a question of function, and I answered it... It's not sext or expensive, but a mute button and outputs, doesn't need to cost 3K. If you need an input for a phone, sad, that easily remedied. I'm on topic.

"Best" to me means what does the job most efficiently.

Are we all just emulations of groupthink and gear porn pimps?

[blah blah blah]

Not all products are meant for all people. You need to get over that and knock the chip off your shoulder. Certain products are built better and have more functions that make it the tool for the professional who needs them. For instance: relays, near exact trim/gain on inputs and outputs, number and type of outputs and inputs, recall, calibration, and great conversion/clocking are functions of the Grace m905. You may not need that but others do. Stop worrying about how others spend their money. Whether it is the hobbiest who is blowing disposable cash on "too advanced gear" or a professional who needs all the features, that's up to the user/consumer.

The funny thing is you are exactly looking for . You have your Drawmer -- be happy with that if it already solves your problems. If you need just a volume knob and mute, any simple passive controller on the market will do that. But why are you looking to spend money if you have your Drawmer?

Haha, I’m not the poster is... This is a site of angles, not knowledge... “Best” - this place is like the penthouse forum of knowledge about sex.

This is not tactical or practical, it’s visceral, and sometimes financial bias masquerading as knowledge, fact, and information.

A little piece of software and hardware ins and outs can do everything alll this hot air and wasted money can do.

- SRW

As was I. I didn't WANT to spend as much as the m905 cost, but I was sure happy I spent it. The features and sonics make it worth every penny. Oops sorry, money again...

Isn't this in the "high end" forum where money makes no difference. Read the sub-forum guidelines.

I've been through a lot of monitoring devices including consoles. The one I have now I absolutely love, it's an Inward Connections DMS-5.

This is an incredibly transparent monitoring system with lots of features.

3 separate sets stereo Inputs
3 separate sets stereo speaker outputs
Additional stereo sub outputs
External device input for monitoring from phone, etc..
Headphone amp & output
Talkback
Mono button for checking mixes
Stereo Auxiliary Ins & Outs for multiple options including adding a mixbus Compressor, or just sending the mix to other devices or returning and dumping anything you want added to your stereo mix.

This is made out of heavy gauge steel with military grade relays and switches. External 24 Volt power supply. It has SPA 690 Opamps & Cinemag Transformers.

When I'm not mixing on my console I mix on this and it's a pleasure to use I also print my mix through this with an Allen Smart on the mixbuss. If I need 100% recall this is the way I go.

Some of us actually use expensive equipment for work, or has that not crossed your mind? Getting second best or some piece of crap with tons of noise in it won't cut it. If you can't afford it, or see it as a waste for what you do, that's fine. Buy something you need and can afford. Obviously that $3k controller is not made for you.

A monitor controller is more than a box with buttons. It's the last thing in the signal chain before whatever you're working on hits your monitors (or amp)—devices that may cost several times what that controller did and only a tiny fraction of what the entire setup costs.

Also, if you've never purchased or used a pro piece of gear, regardless of wether it's for audio or graphics or anything else, it might seem extreme or pointless because you have no frame of reference. Yes, some things can be overpriced, but some are designed by experienced people who use quality components and they serve a purpose for professional work.

As an example: Years ago a friend of mine thought it was crazy I spent a few thousand dollars on a high-end monitor (display). What they didn't realize was I got it for a $20,000 project. So not only was it paid for by the time I got it (thanks to a contractual down payment), I also used it on countless other projects for years after that.

You need to look at stuff in context to understand why some people purchase expensive things and also glance at the title (and subtitle) of the sub-forum you're posting in.

Useless patronizing...Just making the point that it's easy to slip from a GSlut to a GWh*re. I have a decent 50k personal studio, and I do this because I love it, and not for the money.

I respect that some people have to make the choice if that piece of gear will make them what they put into it. I understand that a monitor controller can be crutial, and there are many useful feature in some. But again my answer to the OP question is still valid.

I bought the Avocet
Love it
The DAC is amazing.
And the accuracy and transparency at all volumes truly mind blowing.

Did you get to try the m905 before returning it so you could compare with the Avocet?

I'm actually in the same boat as you were. Right now I've got an m905 on order. I also initially wanted to order the Avocet IIA, but was told that availability is scarce and am looking at a 10-12week turnaround, or if I'm lucky 4 weeks. Someone even told me I'm most likely going to be waiting for close to a year thanks to high demand, but not sure if that was just exaggeration. So, after squandering around for alternatives I decided to order the m905. I'm sure it is a fantastic sounding unit, but it is my second choice and my mind keeps going back to the Avocet.

I was reading on the Grace Design website about their design philosophy and it suggested their commitment to class AB circuitry on their output stage.

That threw me off, because I recall Rich Williams detailing the reason why his gear sounds so good is because it's all class A and there's zero crossover distortion. Would I be doing my B80 a disservice by not going with the Avocet?

No
Here in oz we don’t really get to try gear out sadly
I just gambled on the Avocet II
About a 4 to 6 week wait

Had the Avocet I for a long time. It really was very good. DAC was better than Digi192 and Lynx Auroras I had but wasn’t mind blowing or anything.
Really need to try the DAC on II. Everyone seems to love it.

I use the antelope Satori....it would look nice with your Orion ...its sounds very good. I use the mono and m/s mode a lot.

Re the Avocet IIA, early in the year I was informed of delays caused by low factory supplies of chassis parts. So I waited about 3 or 4 weeks for my order and have been very happy with the IIA for 6 or 7 months now. Crane Song seems to be building a new facility/studio, so maybe efforts there are causing some delays. http://www.cranesong.com/bldg_part1.gif Or maybe the delays are just due to high demand.

I have the Grace m905 - It's sounds great... well it doesn't sound like anything, which is great

Thomas Ross Johansen

I went for the 2400 audio Imperium.

Digitally controlled passive design.
No potentiometers, you get buttons controlling relays that switch between matched pairs of resistors.

Being passive, it sounds totally transparent and cost next to nothing. 800 € shipped to my door here in Switzerland.

On the front panel it has only 8 preset levels which at times are too few, but with a USB MIDI interface and the iPad/iPhone app (TouchOSC) you get 128 discrete interpolated levels.
You can also program your custom levels controlled from the front panel as a default.

Of course it doesn’t have integrated DAC nor talk back functionalities but I personally don’t need those.

It has parallel l out for Subwoofer, mono and left polarity inversion, the latter combined with mono is useful to check the difference.

I got the 1U version but there’s also a 2U one which is expandable as far as I/O.

For the quality, functionality and price it’s a no brainer.

It might not be high-end as far as the price goes but the quality is definitely there.

Best,
Andy

I 100% agree with you! The m905 is just a very transparent box which does not color the sound. And it is built like a tank! ATM I am running the setup analog again because there is a firmware bug with the Mono/LR button when using the digital outs for speakers. But Grace is working on a software update, very nice and responsive guys!

Surprised at this point that nobody mentioned Crookwood yet?