Because I've heard better sounding AD/DA converters than the Motu, I wanted to understand how these numbers correlate with the audio quality. I've done the following test. Using the same protocol, I've tested a FLUX Pure Compressor plug-in set on default settings except for "auto delay" which was enabled and threshold which was at -1 dB. The following chart has ratio in first, then make up gain.

1.25 +1>>>>> Corr Depth: 38,3 dB (L), 37,5 dB (R) Diff -43.74 dBFS
1.41 +2>>>>> Corr Depth: 35,0 dB (L), 34,3 dB (R) Diff -40.60 dBFS
2.50 +4>>>>> Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L), 28,1 dB (R) Diff -34.71 dBFS
5.00 +6>>>>> Corr Depth: 25,8 dB (L), 25,7 dB (R) Diff -32.48 dBFS
10.0 +7>>>>> Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 24,3 dB (R) Diff -31.59 dBFS

The results are better for the compressor than for a lot of AD/DA converters. That's unexpected and I've no rational explanation.

Well you have no clock drift or jitter to degrade it for one. If you posted the amount of gain reduction that would be more revealing since without that there's no indication the compressor is doing anything.

As for converters sounding better.. Unless you're doing a side by side comparison on the same system at the same time it's a bit useless especially with expectation bias influencing what you hear.

I will redo this test including the gain reductions in the results. They must be roughly equal to the make up gains I've noticed. So, no just tenths of dB.

You're right. I've never run a regular ABX test with the Motu. My statement is just based on listening impressions souvenir.

Could you still add it to the test results?

List updated with 3 loops from an RME Fireface UFX that I recorded. Each loop is named RME Fireface/x,y/z,w, x and y being the analog output numbers, z and w being the analog input numbers. Analog outputs 1 and 2 have XLR connectors and higher level than the other analog outputs, which have TRS jack female connectors. Inputs 9 to 12 have mic preamps, the gain of which I set to 0 dB.

RME Fireface/5,6/3,4
RME Fireface/1,2/3,4
RME Fireface/1,2/9,10

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Unbalanced, -10 dBV (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,7 dB (L), 24,4 dB (R) Diff -42,4 dBFS (L) -43,5 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Balanced, 4 dBu (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Diff -41,9 dBFS (L) -43,0 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,5 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/5,6/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,4 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,8 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/9,10 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 14,7 dB (L), 16,2 dB (R) Difference -35,03 dBFS (L) -36,30 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

ULN2 loopback file:

Free - Envoyez vos documents

List updated with Metric Halo ULN-2

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Metric Halo ULN-2 (DownSideUp)
Corr Depth: 25,3 dB (L), 26,9 dB (R) Difference: -44,9 dB (L), 46,0 dB (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Unbalanced, -10 dBV (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,7 dB (L), 24,4 dB (R) Diff -42,4 dBFS (L) -43,5 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Balanced, 4 dBu (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Diff -41,9 dBFS (L) -43,0 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,5 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/5,6/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,4 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,8 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/9,10 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 14,7 dB (L), 16,2 dB (R) Difference -35,03 dBFS (L) -36,30 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

How come there is no Hilo?

I suppose I could submit mine, and few others, Saffire Pro 24 DSP and Delta 66....

You are much welcome ! The original, different from the one in nms' test is here. Note that this is a single loop test. Thank you !

Here are the files - hosted on Mediafire
Not time or level matched. Original might have been clipped when I played it back to record, so I don't know if these will work

Lynx HiLo
CCJ_Symphonic_Loopback_Hilo.wav

Saffire pro 24 DSP
CCJ_Symphonic_Loopback_SaffirePro24DSP.wav

I'll do the Delta 66 later, don't usually use the analog I/O on it...
But I am curious, but it is old and rusty

The level matching is not an issue provided that the loop level is smaller than the original level for avoiding clipping. The Hilo loop is 0.1 dB hotter than the original, which means that there is a bit of clipping since the original peaks at 0 dBFS. However I doubt that a loop at a lower level would achieve a significantly better result, which is already extraordinary good. There is a more serious issue of synchronism: about 3 ms from the original is missing at 1mn55s714ms about 6 s before the end. See attached pictures. So I removed the 6 last seconds from the loop for comparing it to the original. Do you think that this is an issue with the Hilo USB connection or with your computer ?

List updated with Lynx Hilo. I will add the Saffire later on.

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

Lynx Hilo (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 41,8 dB (L), 43,7 dB (R), Difference: -56,8 dBFS (L), -57,2 dBFS (R)

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Metric Halo ULN-2 (DownSideUp)
Corr Depth: 25,3 dB (L), 26,9 dB (R) Difference: -44,9 dB (L), 46,0 dB (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Unbalanced, -10 dBV (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,7 dB (L), 24,4 dB (R) Diff -42,4 dBFS (L) -43,5 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Balanced, 4 dBu (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Diff -41,9 dBFS (L) -43,0 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,5 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/5,6/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,4 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,8 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/9,10 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 14,7 dB (L), 16,2 dB (R) Difference -35,03 dBFS (L) -36,30 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

Interesting, I am not sure what would have caused that gap
I was trying out Studio Live 2 when doing these.
TBH I've had all kinds of issues lately with this PC...

Motu 828 mk2 is pretty good, might have to get one for extra I/O

The difference from the Saffire loop analysis by means of AudiDiffMaker is first very large and vanishes suddenly at about 45". Detailed looking at the waveforms shows that the loop is much more accurate after this time (see attached pictures). So I cut the this first part of the loop and performed a second AudioDiffmaker run on the 1' duration second part. The figures herebelow are the ones from this second analysis.

List updated with Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

Lynx Hilo (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 41,8 dB (L), 43,7 dB (R), Difference: -56,8 dBFS (L), -57,2 dBFS (R)

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Metric Halo ULN-2 (DownSideUp)
Corr Depth: 25,3 dB (L), 26,9 dB (R) Difference: -44,9 dB (L), 46,0 dB (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Unbalanced, -10 dBV (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,7 dB (L), 24,4 dB (R) Diff -42,4 dBFS (L) -43,5 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Balanced, 4 dBu (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Diff -41,9 dBFS (L) -43,0 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 20,2 dB (L), 22,0 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -39,9 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,5 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/5,6/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,4 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,8 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/9,10 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 14,7 dB (L), 16,2 dB (R) Difference -35,03 dBFS (L) -36,30 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

In others words, Lynx Hilo , MOTU 828mk2 , Mytek 8x192 are the best (converters)?

Cant believe on 828mk2 , (second better) are you shure ?
and TC twin ..

Just used 8x192 (really great) , tried Hilo (amazing) ..

-a-

These are mostly all interfaces, not high end converters and it's a test of transparency, not explicitly what's "best". The 828mk2 has a worse noise floor and clock than the Mytek. The Lavrys all beat the 828mk2 and same with the Metric Halo. We tested them in the other thread.

The 828mk2 however has yet to be debunked and puts in a shockingly good performance in loopback testing.

I hope that i am not to late?!?!?
Here is my litlle contribution to this great thread:
2 files from RME FIREFACE 800--
Clocked internaly and second time via Word Clock from Yamaha 02R digital mixing console.
Thanks
Download RME FIREFACE 800.rar from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

No, you are not. Thank you much for your contribution!

List updated with Fireface 800 internally clocked. Note that the result is exactly the same like from the RME Multiface II.

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

Lynx Hilo (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 41,8 dB (L), 43,7 dB (R), Difference: -56,8 dBFS (L), -57,2 dBFS (R)

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Metric Halo ULN-2 (DownSideUp)
Corr Depth: 25,3 dB (L), 26,9 dB (R) Difference: -44,9 dB (L), 46,0 dB (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Unbalanced, -10 dBV (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,7 dB (L), 24,4 dB (R) Difference: -42,4 dBFS (L) -43,5 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 800 (genelec79)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Difference: -41,9 dB (L), -43,0 dB (R)

RME Multiface II - Balanced, 4 dBu (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Difference: -41,9 dBFS (L) -43,0 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 20,2 dB (L), 22,0 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -39,9 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,5 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/5,6/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,4 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,8 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/9,10 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 14,7 dB (L), 16,2 dB (R) Difference -35,03 dBFS (L) -36,30 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

Actually both loops are nearly identical, their difference RMS level being below -100 dBFS. I guess that such a loopback test cannot evaluate the clock because the same clock signal triggers both the DA converter and the AD converter.

Hi guys,

Here is my contribution to this thread:
1 file from Apogee Symphony I/O, it's the same unit as in NMS's thread ''The Ultimate Converter DA/AD Loopback Shootout Thread!''

Symphony I:O 1xloopback.wav

Your loopback file is identical to the original except for one second delay and the last sample. An analog loopback cannot achieve such a perfect result. You certainly did a mistake.

List updated with Fireface 800 clocked by Yamaha 02R.

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

Lynx Hilo (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 41,8 dB (L), 43,7 dB (R), Difference: -56,8 dBFS (L), -57,2 dBFS (R)

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Metric Halo ULN-2 (DownSideUp)
Corr Depth: 25,3 dB (L), 26,9 dB (R) Difference: -44,9 dB (L), 46,0 dB (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Unbalanced, -10 dBV (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,7 dB (L), 24,4 dB (R) Difference: -42,4 dBFS (L) -43,5 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 800 (genelec79)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Difference: -41,9 dB (L), -43,0 dB (R)

RME Multiface II - Balanced, 4 dBu (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Difference: -41,9 dBFS (L) -43,0 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 20,2 dB (L), 22,0 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -39,9 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,5 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/5,6/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,4 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,8 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/9,10 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 14,7 dB (L), 16,2 dB (R) Difference -35,03 dBFS (L) -36,30 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 800 clocked by Yamaha 02R (genelec79)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Difference: -41,9 dB (L), -43,0 dB (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

My apologies Didier, uploaded the wrong file

here is the new link:

Apogee Symphony I\O 1x loopback.wav

List updated with Apogee Symphony I/O

DA-AD loops from this wav file evaluated by means of Audio DiffMaker.

ADDA converters

Lynx Hilo (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 41,8 dB (L), 43,7 dB (R), Difference: -56,8 dBFS (L), -57,2 dBFS (R)

MOTU 828mk2 (laurend)
Corr Depth: 36,4 dB (L), 37,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.7 dBFS (L) -57.0 dBFS (R)

Mytek 8 x 192 (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 35,3 dB (L), 36,9 dB (R) Difference: -55.2 dBFS (L) -56.0 dBFS (R)

Aurora 8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -54.2 dBFS (L) -55.1 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (AndG)
Corr Depth: 32,0 dB (L), 33,6 dB (R) Difference: -51.7 dBFS (L) -52.7 dBFS (R)

RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 31.4 dB (L), 33.0 dB (R) Difference: -51.2 dBFS (L) -52.1 dBFS (R)

Prism Orpheus (MainTime)
Corr Depth: 30,8 dB (L), 32,4 dB (R) Difference: -51.1 dBFS (L) -52.4 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 30,2 dB (L), 31,8 dB (R) Difference: -49.8 dBFS (L) -50.8 dBFS (R)

TC Electronics Impact Twin (ben)
Corr Depth: 29,1 dB (L), 30,8 dB (R) Difference: -48,7 dBFS (L), -49,7 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 12 (guze)
Corr Depth: 28,8 dB (L), 30,1 dB (R) Difference: -48.4 dBFS (L) -49.2 dBFS (R)

E-MU 1616m (left channel only, ben)
Corr Depth: 28,9 dB (L) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L)

Apogee Symphony I/O (Ajantis)
Corr Depth: 43,4 dB (L), 45,6 dB (R) Difference: -45,9 dBFS (L), 45,5 dBFS dB (R)

Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 25,6 dB (L), 27,4 dB (R) Difference: -45,2 dBFS (L), -46,3 dBFS (R)

Metric Halo ULN-2 (DownSideUp)
Corr Depth: 25,3 dB (L), 26,9 dB (R) Difference: -44,9 dB (L), 46,0 dB (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 non adat CS4272 (guze)
Corr Depth: 26,4 dB (L), 28,2 dB (R) Difference: -40.6 dBFS (L) -40.6 dBFS (R)

RME Multiface II - Unbalanced, -10 dBV (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,7 dB (L), 24,4 dB (R) Difference: -42,4 dBFS (L) -43,5 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 800 (genelec79)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Difference: -41,9 dB (L), -43,0 dB (R)

RME Multiface II - Balanced, 4 dBu (juki, Audiofanzine)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Difference: -41,9 dBFS (L) -43,0 dBFS (R)

Apogee Duet2 (isma)
Corr Depth: 19,8 dB (L), 21,4 dB (R) Difference: -40.2 dBFS (L) -41.6 dBFS (R)

Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP (CoolColJ)
Corr Depth: 20,2 dB (L), 22,0 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -39,9 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,5 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,9 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/5,6/3,4 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 18,4 dB (L), 20,1 dB (R) Difference: -38,8 dBFS (L), -40,3 dBFS (R)

Yamaha Steinberg MR816X (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 19,1 dB (L), 21,0 dB (R) Difference: -38.6 dBFS (L) -40.0 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface UFX/1,2/9,10 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 14,7 dB (L), 16,2 dB (R) Difference -35,03 dBFS (L) -36,30 dBFS (R)

Edirol FA-66 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 15,6 dB (L), 17,1 dB (R) Difference: -34.4 dBFS (L) -35.4 dBFS (R)

RME Babyface (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 9,2 dB (L), 10,8 dB (R) Difference: -28.8 dBFS (L) -29.8 dBFS (R)


Sets of different converters

Aurora8 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 34,6 dB (L), 36,3 dB (R) Difference: -55.3 dBFS (L) -56.5 dBFS (R)

Echo Audiofire 8 with ADAT clocked by RME HDSP 9632 (schtim)
Corr Depth: 25.9 dB (L), 27.5 dB (R) Difference: -45.5 dBFS (L) -46.5 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by RME HDSPe RayDAT (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.1 dBFS (L) -45.0 dBFS (R)

M-Audio Profire2626 clocked by Lynx Aurora8 (cylens)
Corr Depth: 24,4 dB (L), 25,9 dB (R) Difference: -44.0 dBFS (L) -44.9 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 800 clocked by Yamaha 02R (genelec79)
Corr Depth: 22,3 dB (L), 23,9 dB (R) Difference: -41,9 dB (L), -43,0 dB (R)

RME Babyface --> RME Fireface 400 (didier.brest)
Corr Depth: 16,6 dB (L), 18,4 dB (R) Difference -29,4 dBFS (L), -28,8 dBFS (R)

Benchmark DAC1 phone output ---> Echo Audiofire 4 (david1103)
Corr Depth: 10,4 dB (L), 10,2 dB (R) Difference: -22,6 dBFS (L), -23,1 dBFS (R)

For contributing to this test :
- download the test 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file (31 Mb),
- cable link the 2 DAC outputs to 2 ADC inputs,
- play back the test file to the DAC outputs and record from the ADC inputs,
- upload to mediafire or any other file sharing site the 2 x 44 kHz x 24 bit wav file from this recording and
- provide the download link here with information about ADC and DAC identities.
Thank you!

It would be interesting if anyone could test the Yamaha Steinberg MR816X, using the insert points of chan 1 & 2 as returns instead of the preamp inputs. This would bypass the preamps and likely give a more uncolored loopback. This is done plugging the balanced cables only half-way in (one click),

Anyone? I can't test my own MR816X for at least two weeks :(.

I sold mine...

didier.brest

thanks for this thread! this is really enlightening.
btw, do you know which inputs of orpheus were used for the loopback test?

thx.

Sorry, I don't.

In the "ultimate" thread, the Symphony places near the top. Here, not so much. The "ultimate" thread used this thread as it's jumping off point so the methodology is pretty much the same. Anyone care to explain the discrepancy in Symphony rankings?

It looks to me that in the ''ultimate thread'' Corr Depth stat was a ranking factor while here its the Difference stat. If u take a look at the Symphony results in this thread Corr Depth stat is still the highest one among all audio interfaces.

P.S.
I would also be interested if someone more knowledgeable could explain the discrepancy.

Didier has the units ranked in order of the RMS figure instead of correlation depth. It's a toss up as to which is best indicator to go by. That's why we list both.

That said, I do wonder if Ajantis made some error as that seems a little low still. He did make an error on the RMAA loop he sent me which was out of wack. You really have to be careful with the routing to make sure there's no bleed from anywhere.

Past that, there's some issue with Diffmaker's accuracy for autoalignments. Manual is better a lot of times.

It looks like that there is no more "ultimate thread" !!?!?!?!
SUPPORT FOR nms !!!!!