Some Sub 37 numbers, fresh from the spectrum analyzer:

The filter goes to 19kHz. That is, it tops out there when oscillating, and shows a sensible shape when filled with pink noise, so it's knee is there. However it does also have a gentle slope which starts to steepen somewhere in the middle, depending on the selected filter steepness (checked by feed it with external white noise), and resonance around 2 straightens that out a little.

The oscillators have frequency content above 20kHz. E.g. playing around A4 with a square'ish wave shows harmonics around 20kHz at ca 40dB below the fundamental, and it extends to 22kHz (the limit of my FFT) with the filter at 6dB slope. Going for hard sync sounds pushes harmonics even further up to 10-15dB below the fundamental (with the overall level dropping). Switching the filter to 24dB dampens the upper harmonics by ca 6dB.

I agree that it has a slightly dark and moody sound overall, and the filter response supports that. I use the 6dB and 12 dB filter modes a lot on this synth - figures that with the gently sloped tonal characteristic, it hits some nice sweet territory there. Being an LPF only subtractive synth leads on to LPF'ish sounds anyway, and my hearing tops out at around 16kHz, so...

Perhaps someone with a Subsequent and a spectrum analyzer a click away want to check theirs?

Really strange and actually not understandable for me. If I want dark sounds on my synth, I just lower the Cutoff. But with the Sub Phattys its just by default quite dark. As said, with the Subsequent its a tiny bit better.

Actually the Little Phatty, which I owned once, had the best high end of all Moogs I owned. Voyager as well is a bit damped, guess with the Slew rate mod its better. But I sold my XL latley...so for now I have the Minitaur with more classic vibez and the Subsequent. Enough Moog for me

hey guys

i was stashing money since 1and a half year to get the sub37 because i love his dark grity distorted sound! since i make dirty deep minimal techno it would be my best buy imo.

but now iam very confused about the new release of the subsequent37!!!
moog says a clearer sound, more headroom and allover changes!

what does it mean to me?

please make this clear for somebody who needs a gritty sound in his production!

should i go with the sub37 or with the subsequent37...

what makes the difference for me...

wishin the best

The SS37 intro video claimed that it can get the same sounds as the S37. Chances are that S37 patches exported to an SS37 will sound different by default though, with less drive in the mixer and more multidrive for the same knob settings.

Thinking about doing the upgrade that Moog announced. Hopefully, bumping the mixer levels will get the grittiness back (love it on my 'old' S37, with many patches depending on the gain staging). One possibility to support that in a deterministic fashion is a patch converter that automatically adjusts the gain staging to retain the original sound when swapping patches between the S37 and the SS37 (if possible...) - would be a nice addition to Moog's editor.

can i get the same grittyness like the sub37 or can i get even grittier with the ss37... that is my big question... i like it very deep bassy gritty and dirty with my automations...
what does moog mean with cleaner? is cleaner ment to get a broughter mass on musicians that probably making pop music... or what does the ss37 mean for my dirtproduction vs the s37??

thank you

Sound-wise they´re pretty much the same and that includes "grittiness". Get a distortion/saturation unit or process afterwards ITB. But they are quite capable on their own right out of the box thanks to the overdrive.

what makes more sense for me? iam very sorry that i disturb you with my desperatness...

it seems like something i donot understand why they replaced the sub37... it would be clear for me if moog would bring out the subsequent with its cv!!!
but replacing a machine with almost the same machine does not make sense to me...

there must be the better solution in both of them for my productions...
but what is the keyanswer?

what should i get and why? can anybody make a clear sentence on this?

iam pretty sure that there is somebody with a good answer outhere...

it makes the most of sense to buy both of them the s37 and the ss37 and tweak the hell out of them to make a personal decision... but that means to spend money i dont have! so its not makeable... so iam really orianted on your knowlegde and and your words!

please help furthe

that is a post on another forum


The Subsequent 37 CV’s mixer now has double the headroom of the Sub 37 Tribute Edition. Taking advantage of the mixer’s newfound flexibility, the gain-staging of the Ladder filter has been reshaped to boost harmonic saturation and analog compression. Completing the sonic evolution is a re-tuned Multidrive circuit that extends well beyond the grit and growl of the original Sub 37.





i asked to make it even clearer because my english is not the best!

and his answer was:

It means you can drive the filter harder. The SUB 37 filter is pretty 'clean' sounding by comparison. Sequential 37 = more growl.

(he says: that the s37 is pretty clean! and moog says the ss37 is cleaner than the s37) that makes me thinkin again!

No problem, we're many who are curious about this.

If the SS37 can indeed hit the same sounds as the S37, only providing more mixer headroom and a greater multidrive range (meaning mixer and multidrive knob positions may be different for the same values on the two synths), then it makes sense to get the SS37 now. The upgraded keybed is also part of the deal.

that is a clear answer that i was talking about

thank you very much!

Anyone measuring the S37 and SS37 filter: make sure the filter tracking is at zero, and also make sure the filter velocity is zero - that's in the envelope button section. Factory INIT patch defaults to 25% and 10%, I think. With default settings I don't think you can push it fully open from a C3.

How much different is the keybed. I realised a couple of days ago that the Sub37 keybed isnt to my taste. The black keys are too high for my liking to be my main board.
Is it just the sprung action thats different?

I also wonder if the Subsequent keybed was changed to hide the key hinges, or if that's more to do with the placement of the mounting screws on the bottom metal plate. They S37 always seemed like the keys were overhanging a little further than they should.

Yeah I thought the exact same thing - adds nothing to the demo at all. Sure I'd do that in my own time as well if I had one of each, but not for a demo.

Other than that, handy resource.

I've sent my sub 37 in to get upgraded to the subsequent 37 spec and received it back and I have some thoughts and a question. The sound has a lot more potential and can get distorted more than the sub 37. If you keep the levels low in the mixer you can get some nice tones. All in all sound wise I love how it sounds and I think it's worth upgrading.

The keybed is better but not night and day, it now doesn't bother me as much as the old one did.

Having said all this, I noticed that since I got it back the oscillators, when the frequency of osc2 and beat Freq are set to 0 there is some phasing between the oscillators and as a result the sound cuts out when the phase reaches a certain point. Before the upgrade they would lock in and not do that, had anyone else noticed that? When you init a patch and just mix in osc2 do they stay in phase or beat on their own?

I know that analogue oscs should do that to a certain extent but I really liked that it didnt in the sub 37 before the upgrade.

I've run the note calibration and the pot calibration a few times and still can't get them to lock in and not phase.

I really like the sound of the sub 37. My one thing with it since I brought it home (based on price) was the keybed. Just never really felt great to me. Reading through the thread I am thinking sound wise the upgrade does not make sense for me. But I would love to have an improved keybed. It was mentioned the new one is not night and day. How much better would you say it is 25%,50% ?

I wonder if one could just order a upgraded keybed and change it out at home.

I would think it can't be that difficult to change out the keybed on a sub37 without having to send it in. Just wondering what you all think.

It wouldnt be that hard to swap the keybed and/or the circuit board at home but sadly, Moog is only offering the upgrades "in house" . I already asked!

Maybe we should start a petition...

My theory is that Moog wants to hold on to all the replaced sub boards ...possibly for when, in a few years, people start wanting to revert their subsequent for that " raw " tribute edition sound

also, i suspect that anyone with some electronics experience could put together some form of workable desktop/rack unit from the replaced boards. Something, i recon, that moog is not keen with.

I really wish that we could do the upgrade at home too. I'd be glad to ship the old parts to Moog before I get my replacement parts if that's what it takes. I've been wanting to have mine upgraded, but I really don't want to ship it. My box was thrown away, and the ATA case is three bills. I have the skills to do the job, and the cash for the new parts. So close..

I've had my subsequent for 3 days and haven't even had a chance to turn it on yet because of this.

Same thing with me. I think it would be fun to change out the keybed. I have never done it on a synth so that is also a big appeal. I get the circuit board comment in that Moog may not want the original ones floating around. Like you, I would be glad to send the old parts in.
Myself I am only really interested in the keybed so I would think Moog is not worried about the old keybeds floating around. I wonder if it was pointed out to them, if they would consider selling a keybed upgrade option to change out at home.
while I am on the subject does anyone know of aftermarket keybeds that are available for the Sub 37.

also as a disclaimer to anyone reading- The keybed on the sub 37 is actually ok, not a major issue. I don't want to give the wrong impression here.

I like to take things apart

I respectfully disagree with you about the keybed being decent. My Ultranova has a better keybed, and it seems like a toy in comparison to the Sub. My keybed is the main problem. Although, I really want the full upgrade. I guess I'll just wait around for a while longer, and hope for the best. Moog seems like they're pretty focused on customer service; so, fingers crossed

I asked around at the Moog forum if anyone knew of a diy keybed upgrade, but I don't think I got any replies.

Hi All, small issue that has been troubling me for sometime.

My setup is a Moog Sub 37 =>Mackie Mixer=> Focusrite Scarlet 2i4 => Logic X
=> Yamaha HS8 Speakers

Sound out of the HS8 in direct monitoring is, as expected, super rich, warm, open, deep etc. : What you buy a Moog for.

The issue is that when I record that same signal to logic via the Scarlet: When I playback the sample in the DAW, all that richness of sound is lost. Sound is pretty flat.

I record the sound to -6db and top-up with some slight compression. It makes it slightly better but nothing compared to the original signal…

Any idea what the issue might be ? I’m wondering if my scarlett might be the issue here, that is it can cope with the dynamic range of the Moog ? If so would going to something Apollo like would make the magic happen ?

Thanks a lot in advance for the help !!

Gus

Make sure you play back so the recorded sound is at a level as loud as when you are playing live. It’s common for people to play back recordings at a lower level, and it’s surprising how much difference this can make to how rich and full things sound.

After that, what you are hearing is why people will pay large amounts of money for good quality AD/DA conversion.

hi there.
i had my sub37 upgraded to a subsequent 37 - it came back yesterday.
i recorded my sub37 settings to compare it to the subsequent especially the filter cutoff.
i attached a screenshot - watch for yourself.
volumes are matched - preset is absolutely the same, settings are Synth->DI->Apogee Duet.
there is a difference, for all those who know the little phatty - no its not that brigt, but it's brighter on the subsequent37 without losing low end.

Hi All, anyone could help with that?

Out of nowhere my sub37 produces no sound when connected via USB in logic X.

Used to work perfectly, works fine in Live but for some reason does not anymore on Logic. Tried loads of stuff and it does not work...

If USB is connected to the computer all works ok (sound out) but as soon as I open logic and create an ext. instrument track.... sounds gets offf. Damn I'm not sure what to do here...

Thanks a lot in advance for your help !

Gus

Can you overdrive the oscillators with the mixer to just the same to achieve the same tone without resorting to multi-drive? I want to buy a subsequent but i've head some many great warm fuzzy distorted demos that I worry the sub 37 might be the better option. I'm not looking for crazy harsh distortion just a warm saturated tone.

You can for sure and more. The Subsequent 37 can drive the oscillators more into the the filter. All in all it can sound even dirtier that the Sub37. It has more range both at tamer sounds as well as more distorted ones. And if you're planning to use the duophonic mode, the Subsequent is much better at that.

Great, i'll have to get one then. Is multi-drive post filter distortion? So you have both more pre-filter overdrive and more post filter? Really loving the tone of the Matriarch too and that could do nicely for pads and chords.

I really wanted a Moog one as it's a stunning looking powerhouse of an instrument with amazing modulation and tweak-ability. However, I find it overly sharp and bright and lacking in organic warmth from what i've head unless you really program some character into it. I seem to much prefer the natural tone of the other Moogs. Maybe i'd be better off with a Subsequent, Matriarch and a Novation Peak / Abstrakt VS-1 for similar money.

Thanks for this