So I understand that the Sound Devices 788T has a modified preamp design. On one hand, they are marketed as being an improvement, on the other, they use less power, so I wonder if the design change was implemented as a necessity due to the power draw and if the real world results of said change will have any noticeable effect on the sound.

I'm not even really asking if one thinks that the preamps sound better... but more to the point, asking if they sound different. "Better" might be due to some differences in frequency response, but absolute signal to noise ratio is the one measurement that leaves no room for interpretation.

Anyone actually have the 788T yet (hopefully already a 744T owner) and willing to post a few files with metering observations?

I have a 788T and a 722. Same pre-amps as the 744T. I suppose I could hook up a Schoeps CMC64 to each and run them C-linked and see what happens. Or, would you prefer DPA 4006TL's? They are "more neutral." Post the files? I dunno, you in the Big Apple or the Big Pineapple now?? ;o)

OK, I can do that. Give me some time to get a venue with music to record.

Lemme know.

Cheers

I would much appreciate it... whichever one is more convenient with you, I suppose the DPA would be my first choice.

I'm currently eating pineapple (at least when I go to McDonalds and they give you pineapple as a free side, which isn't often, but sometimes it is the first place I walk to after getting out of the water from a surf session).

I'm just experiencing some pre-buyer's remorse, which I'm sure will melt away once I pull the trigger.

I have felt no remorse for buying the 788T.

I will run the DPA's ASAP. I may have a chance this weekend with a big band jazz ensemble: PYJO - Portland Youth Jazz Orchestra. They do A-Train from the Ellington charts. They are a top band. Their pianist is now 16. He writes and arranges, too. I had planned on going . I can run the Schoeps MS I had in mind and a DPA to each machine in an AB.

Cheers

awesome, looking forward to it. thanks for offering your help.

Hold the poi, but next time I am in Gotham you owe me an egg creme.

Hi Boojum! Did you ever run this test? I would love to listen to the results!

Bove, I dropped the ball. Sorry. The 788T is in the shop for the upgrade now. I will check the deal for you when it comes out. I can run the DPA 4006 TL's in a Jecklin and feed out of the 788T to a 722, skipping the pre in the 788, I thik. If not I will cook up some other way.

So sorry. Thanks for waking me up.

I'm also curious about 788t pres comparison. Supposedly they use
a design which has fewer analog componants. In comparing them to the previous models, one would have to settle for comparing one set of pres and converters for another set, since they are inseperable on these machines (and the 788 converters have a much higher dynamic range). If there is a difference in sound quality it could be for the pres, converters or both.

I heard Sound Devices just came out with a new more expensive version of the 788, with an improved hard drive (quieter, more shock resistent, more memory, a bit lighter).

The 788T came out around April/May 2008 and It was interesting to read in the SoundDevices forum from the SD-guys that the preamps of the 788T were designed in the same year.
Quite unusual to do a circuit design just a few month before launching a product!

Have a look to this statement from John Tatooles from SD:posted in the SoundDevices forum, 2008-05-23

I know you guys will throw rotten fruit or worse, but I've found for me, I prefer the sound of the 744T preamps at 96k.

never tried the 788 but see now that it supports 96k

Yep - with the latest firmware the unit works also with 96k for all channels.
In theory the A/D converters of the 788T are able to do 192k but probably the DSP or bus is not able to handle this. High sampling needs a lot of computing power (and current of course).
Probably we have to consider that this machine is designed for field recording for film/movie and not music production in a studio. A power consumption as low as possible is required in that case...

How dare you!

The new model comes with a 256 GB solid state drive. Nice!


788T-SSD | Sound Devices, LLC

I am still waiting for this test - PLEASE DO and REACTIVATE this thread.

Thanks,

Well guys, you can call me the thread necromancer... rise, dead thread, oh rise!!!



So we have these three Sound Devices recorders: 1) 788T, 2) 744T, and 3) MixPre3. Decided to do a studio shootout @ 48K and 24 bit. The sound source? A Cordoba Flamenca Negra GK pro played by yours truly, recorded through a Mackie 1402 VLZ3 with NO EQ and FX provided by the lovely Eventide H9. The performance? Combination of finger picking and strumming with alternating dynamic range to test transient response.

The results? Both of us ranked, from best to worst: 2-1-3. Why? Basically, we both felt that the 744T brilliantly picked up the transient responses of the Negra, and the 788T was a close second. 744T won again on linearity; again, with the 788T being a close second... so what about the MixPre3?

Well... my partner said "The MixPre3 would be a great recorder for a beginner, because it makes the performance sound better than it actually is." Not a very flattering comment when judging a recorder

Basically, this recorder had noticeable "smearing" that was particularly present in the low mids. It also had this effect of "smoothing over" finger noise and other subtle transients that, for me at least, give a performance its mojo.

Were the differences huge? Let's put it this way; unless you were a trained audio pro, probably not. Would the MixPre3 suffice? Probably would do just fine for dialog recording--but for my money, I wouldn't use this recorder for professional music recording.

Now I know that the next post is going to ask me to put up the results. Let me look into that; may be able to get these up on my soundcloud for all to hear. Stay tuned!

Let me get this straight. Your recorded something using a Mackie 1402 VLZ3 as a front end to decide which of three Sound Devices recorders sounded better?

D.

With FX baked in?

-Mike

I am guessing that the 'necromancer' in post #16 is not using mics at all and that the Mackie is his source mixer (his profile indicates that electric acoustic guitar and synths are his weapons of choice). In that light, sources with baked-in effects from the Eventide via the 1402 VLZ is perhaps a valid method for his own comparison of the three SD recorders?

Hahaha OK guys, OK clearly we have different recording philosophies

I used the Mackie as a line mixer, nothing more... jimjazzdad is exactly right. I used the GK pro directly in via its Fishman pro blend system. NO mics were used. NO EQ was used.

I liked the performance with *light* effects (tape echo) provided by the H9 to give a bit of ambience...

Anyhow, I don't think this really changes much here...

Sorry, but now I am really confused. You are comparing preamp quality with a line-level input?

Not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand.

D.

Nope. What we did was plug the GK pro Negra Fishman preamp into the Mackie; bypassing the poor quality pres in the Mackie. We then set up an effects loop in the Mackie with the Eventide H9, and connected the Mackie’s main outs at +4db into the SD inputs. We trimmed the SD pres on all three recorders to normalize input levels such that all three meters on the SD recorders read +/- 1db or less difference from one another.

Hope this helps to clarify.

There's nothing wrong with the mic pres of the Mackie, I use mine often by connecting via the insert sockets at the rear of the mixer. It's very likely a better pre than the Fishman, with the exception that it won't load the guitar pickups sufficiently with the 1 or 2 megohm they require (hopefully the Fishman does ?)

Fair enough... the 'quality' comment wasn't in reference to the Mackie pres in general, but rather in comparison to the SD pres... which we were much more interested in testing. We have to assume that the Fishman pro-blend system has been optimized for the GK pro Negra per Cordoba engineers. This was our rationale for using the Fishman system built-in to the GK pro Negra:





BUT... back on topic, pretty much under-impressed by the MixPre3. After reading much about the Kashmir pres, we just didn't feel that they delivered the goods

Ah ok, I'd assumed the Fishman was a floor box preamp/eq device, like an LR Baggs preamp/DI...but clearly it's built into the guitar. However, I'd still be wary of trusting that the resulting 1/4" output is optimised for plugging into the line input of either the Mackie or any of those SD recorders.

The reason is that they (the recorder and mixer line inputs) typically give a 10k to 100k ohm load to the guitar output.....whereas most guitars like to see 1 or 2 megohm load, the same load typically offered by a valve/tube powered amp or head. If the guitar gets less than this, the result is usually that the tone gets thin and lacking in bass.

So before you plug your guitar directly into any mixer line input (or same on the SD's) do some research into optimal guitar load matching...as it,s something often ignored and relatively unknown by guitar players.

The line out from the back of your guitar amp might be the best off-take point to ensure that you are feeding the Mackie and various SD's an optimised line signal...where the linking impedances are optimally matched

It's a fair point, although we do know something about impedance/load; have recorded/mixed/mastered some jazz records of note and have a pretty extensive SDC/LDC/ribbon mic collection of 1920s-60s Neumann, modern Schoeps, modern Neumann, modern Royer, etc.

… BUT we did check this out. Per Cordoba's specs on the Fishman prefix pro blend system, pickup input impedance is 20M ohm and output impedance is <3.5k ohm.

The recordings were quite 'bassy', so no problems there. The biggest problem was with the MixPre3, in a rather anti-climactic sort of way, unfortunately

Some info on guitar pickup matching, which is a bit like gravity: even if you don't understand it, that doesn't mean it's not affecting you !

: YouTube

impedance matching for Guitar input - Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange

Guitar Impedance Matching - Ironstone Electric Guitar Pickups

Maybe the SD "Musician recorder" is the one for you ?

MixPre-10M

This was a fascinating read... thanks for sharing!

According to marketing hype, yes... BUT when delving deeper it's clear that the -10M has EXACTLY the same 'Kashmir' pres as the -3. Perhaps there are other differences but for my money it's the 744T/788T all the way

Man oh man though, that 744T sounds the bees knees...!!!