One of the bands I play drums in is calling it quits at the end of the year. The guitarist and vocalist have been playing together on and off for over 40 years, and have developed a good following. The vocalist is in his 70s, sounds stronger than most 20 year olds, but he's getting tired of the regular gig grind. In all this time, they've never released a studio record. The bassist and I have been unable to convince the other two to go into the studio to record some tracks for posterity. (Money is definitely part of their hesitation.) So, I'm hoping to record our last few shows and just maybe get something decent. We have two remaining monthly gigs at a local bar.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The band:

• Vocalist
• electric guitar through an amp
• electric bass through an amp
• acoustic drumkit (just 1 rack tom, 1 ride cymbal, 2 crashes...)

The ONLY thing run through the PA is the one vocal mic. There's a (uncalibrated) decibel meter at the bar, and with the band playing it averages about 100 with peaks as high as 118 on some overzealous performances.

The Gear:
There's a house PA, but we're on our own running it. The board is a Yamaha MG166cx. The main outs run through an outboard eq. There may be a power conditioner in the rack. There are two FOH speakers on stands at the front of the stage, two Mackie Thumps for front wedges and a wedge next to the drum kit.

I've got a Tascam US-16X08, and a MacBook Pro running Cubase (need to brush up on my Cubase experience.) i dont have the greatest mics, but have been considering getting 1 or 2 slightly better used ones I've got:

• 4 x SM57s
• 2 x SM137s
• 1 x SM58
• 1 x Beta52a
• 1 x Beta56a
• 1 x Beta58a
• 1 x Audix D6
• 1 x AT2020
• 1 x MXL 990
• 1 x MXL 991

The Room:
Dimensions are ballparked off the top of my head.

• 70 feet from the back of the stage to the opposite wall.
• 35 feet wide.
• The stage is 1 foot high, 15 feet deep and 25-30 feet wide with a heavy curtain on one side and a solid wall on the other.
• There's a horseshoe bar sticking out 30 feet from the back wall, and a dance floor between the bar and the front of the stage.
• There's a 10 foot high drop ceiling above the bar/dance floor.

Initial Plans:

• Use the Beta52a and Beta56a for kick & snare
• Ise the AT2020 for a drum overhead. Use a SM57 on the guitar amp.
• A direct out from the bass amp (if it exist) and/or the Audix D6 (or maybe swap for the Beta52a...?)
• Use a prefader aux send from the board for the vocal mic. (it would have any of the board's eq and compression. Not ideal.)
• Hang the 2 sm137s from the drop ceiling for room mics. I've got a few Shure A56D drum clamps which I believe I could clamp to the drip ceiling rails. Im thinking maybe 5 feet from the end of the bar towards the stage.

I was considering buying a budget multi-pattern LDC for doing mid-side with a figure 8, but I'm now thinking I might spend that money elsewhere.
I'm also considering (since we're only using the PA for the vocal mic) using my Mackie 1402 VLZ3 to run the PA, and tap the vocal with a direct out from the insert jack to the interface. I might be able to use the house eq with the 1402.

I'm purposefully not putting the interface between the vocal mic and the soundboard, as I don't want to risk latency )or other) issues.

So, waste of time and effort? Or possibly a great live record?

You can make this work if you do the work. The venue will have to let you in in enough time to kludge together your rig, and it would be great if this could be done in a situation where there was no paying audience and there was no one else on the bill at that time (ie no changeovers). The 16x08 has 8 mic pres--how you allocate them is up to you, but they can work fine if you watch your headroom ( I have recorded all-percussion shows with this box and the recording turned out well). The 2nd set of inputs are line-in only, and if you need more than 8 in you could feed those from auxes from the board, if they aren't needed for monitors. Can you use DIs for the gtr and bass? If the band doesn't run the instruments thru the PA then the only split you need is the vocal--a 1 channel Whirlwind or etc will work fine. If you can get the instruments and vocals in 3 inputs that leaves 5 for the drums--plenty enough for a simple set up. Sound check carefully and you'll be fine.

I agree with Philip in that you can't record your show as an acoustic performance (duh!) and that you will need to record it like a live rock show. Multi-mics, splits and don't record the PA.

Good luck.

D.

Cooperation from the venue is not an issue, they'll let me in early to set up and we're the only band on the bill. I might get a DI for the bass, but the guitarist is pretty particular about his "sound", which I want to capture.

Unless someone points out some flaws in my planning, I guess it's gonna be "try and see".

My other band also plays at the same bar, so I may start recording them as well, but that's a little more complicated: 2 guitars instead of 1, 2 (and may even 4) vocalists instead of 1, and a keyboard. Oh, and 2 monitor mixes, so no free aux send from the board. I'd definitely pick up a mic splitter for recording that band.

maybe you wanna get a bit of help from an experienced live sound tech?

i'd set things up as if anything would get amplified - i would actually use the pa (not only for vocals) for some kinda of live vibe that's hard to emulate.

01 bd - beta52
02 sd - sm57
03 hats - sm137
04 overhead - sm137

05 bass - di
06 guitar - sm57
07 voc - at2020 or beta58 or 58

get the singer a wedge, add channels/tracks as needed (57 on toms, d6 on bass cabinet) - not sure i'd use room mics: i'd rather use the desk mix (or both if that's feasible)...

...and of course i'd use a mic splitter!

Your interface has 8x mic inputs, and a further 8x line-level inputs.

The Mackie desk you've mentioned has 6x mic inputs, with insert points that could be used as line outs.

ie, your total capability is 14x mic inputs (six of which can go through the PA if you push the fader) plus 2x line-level inputs.

My channel list would probably be:
1 - Kick - Beta 52, or maybe something else. I don't like the hyped/scooped kick drum sound, so I'd want something else there.
2 - Snare - SM57
3 - Hat - SM137
4 - Tom - SM57
5 - Overhead - SM137
6 - Bass Mic - AT2020
7 - Bass DI
8 - EGTR - SM57
9 - Vox - Try the SM58 and the Beta-58. This is the other place I'd want a different mic. Sennheiser e935 is a good choice.

Which leaves five channels to play with.

Options:
- Use the SM137s for room/audience mics, swap in the MXLs for hat/OH.
- Move up to stereo OH, use one of the MXLs for hat
- Double-mic some things. Kick drum, snare, GTR cab.


Chris

The singer brings (or someone brings) a mic for himself, I believe just a SM58. He knows what he likes and likes what he knows. I do have an e935 a friend lent me, so I could offer it to him.

I wouldn't have thought of the at2020 on the bass cabinet. Have you used that mic before like that?

I am thinking more about swapping in my Mackie for the house board so I can use the insert/direct outs.

IMO, the decision between SM58/Beta-58 is picking which mic's colouration is a better fit for that vocal. An e935 is less-coloured/more-neutral, and works well with most voices.


With regards to cab mics, I routinely use Austrian Audio OC818s for electric guitar and bass cabs on live stages. The AT2020 will have more LF extension than the "general-purpose" dynamic mics you have, and a smoother kHz range than a Beta-52 or D6.

Taking the DI is an insurance policy, for if the cab sounds bad in some way. You could even DI from the bass guitar itself, but that's a different conversation again.

FWIW, I tend to mic cabinets rather than DI, unless the stage is so cramped that I can't get a mic stand in there. The bassist gets their sound and adjusts their controls according to what they hear from their cabinet, so IMO it makes sense to capture what's happening there.
I'm sure others will disagree, but that's okay. I'm happy with my approach, and so are the musicians I work with.


Finally, it's worth noting that good headphones can really help here. Even if it's just optimising mic positioning etc.


Chris

I appreciate the advice so far. I'm going to take a crack at recording the show next Thursday. [fingers crossed]. I'm currently leaning towards Chris' channel list. I do want to use room mics to capture some of the audience along with the music.

Our bassist works at a local used instrument shop, so I *might* be able to borrow a mic or two. Our guitarists works at the local *new gear* shop (not one of the chains). He also might be able to hook me up, but hasn't offered.

So if I were able to borrow (or maybe rent) different mics, what might I look for (knowing they probably don't have everything available)? What kind of mic would you prefer on the kick? Something like the AT2020 - flat response that extends to the low end?

My prefeence for kick mic is something reasonably flat and extended. I've spent a lot of time with AKG D12s, though, and like what the D12VR does on bass drum when in passive mode. It's still non-scooped and extended in the low end, but guves the beater attack a slightly "vintage" flavour.


The AT2020's 144dBSPL handling makes me hesitate, though. Try it, but placement at the port of a bass drum results in very high SPLs. Test it during soundcheck. You don't want to end up with a recording of a mic going "crunch" all night.
On balance, I'd probably go with the Beta-52, and consider EQing out that 4.5kHz spike when you come to mix the recording down later. Or, leave it in if you like it.


Right now, my recommendation to you is to spend the next couple of days making friends with all the mics you plan to use. Cue each one in headphones, get a feel for their performance:
- At what distance does proximity effect kick in?
- Is the proximity effect a rising LF response, or a bump around 100Hz-ish?
- What's the off-axis like? Where's the best rejection?
Etc etc etc.


Chris

PS - Make sure you've checked that the plan to connect your Mackie desk to your interface will work as well.

Well that didn't go as planned. 🤣

I got to the club a couple hours early and started setting up mics, running cables,... A buddy showed up and helped set initial gain on all the mics. I set up the tracks in Cubase, started recording and let it run for the 3 hour show. My buddy watched for clipping and adjusted as needed. I hit stop at the end of the night and didn't look at the results until the next day.

So, you know how when you add an audio track in Cubase, you then assign the input and output for the track, arm it, checkbthe level,... Well I did the first two tracks individually and assigned them to the L&R room mics (inputs 1 and 2), then added the remaining 14 tracks at once. I guess I assumed Cubase would automatically increment the inputs for subsequent tracks (3-16), but nope, I now have one track for the L room mic, and fifteen tracks of the R room mic. All the other mics (setup, cabling, level setting,...) was wasted time and effort! AND for some reason the L mic wasn't working once we started rolling (recorded some faint white noise).

In my defense, I really didn't have an opportunity to test everything out before the show. (Rehearsing and gigging with 2 bands, working a FT day job, married with pets,..) and overestimated how much I would remember about using software I hadn't used in a while.

Surprisingly, that one mic got a pretty good image of the show. Yes, it's kinda hollow sounding but better than most cellphone recordings.

I knew it would be an educational experience, and a trial run for the final show in a few weeks. All in all, I'm encouraged, and it was unobtrusive enough that by bandmates and the club are amenable to trying again.
I will have some time to test drive some things at home before the next show. Fingers crossed.

Some of the best learning I've ever acquired have come from exactly this sort of unfortunate genesis situation... I'm sure it will all work perfectly next time !

Last week, I unplugged the mains and monitors from the house board and plugged them into my Mackie, which provide live vocals for the band, plus mic pres for the interface. I was playing the next night at the club with a different band, so I just left my rig in place, and thought I might just move some mics around and record these guys as well. (An extra guitar, keyboard, and two singers....). Or not. I didn't have to worry about reconnecting the house PA as I would be running it myself.

When not recording, I usually arrive at gigs an hour before downbeat to set up the drums and relax a bit, but because I was one there, the drums and PA won't need any setup. I showed up more like 45 minutes before. I walk in the door, and immediately I notice there's more people than usually there at that hour. There are 2 guys at a table to the left and they waylaid me telling me I need to take a free raffle ticket, they're there promoting the State Lottery, so I'm fumbling around trying to take my coat off, dealing with them, and a venue worker comes over asking me how he can get some music over the bluetooth adapter connected to the PA (which I didn't connect to my mixer the night before, so...),I look and see that someone's moved my mixer (potentially making cabling changes?), and then the band leader walks over and says "Hey, where've you been?!" (He was under the impression that we were starting at 7, though the start time was 8pm. So I've got like 4 or 5 people talking at me at once, and to keep the venue happy, I focus on getting the BT connected and working. (Turns out the employee had never connected to it before, so even if I *did* have it connected, he wouldn't likely have figured out what to pair to and connect. ) I clarify our start time with the bandleader. Screw it, I start tearing down amp and drum mics to get them out of the way. After the gig, it takes at least an hour to pack up my gear (fortunately the drums belong to the house), and then I need to reconnect the house mixer, and verify everything is ready for the band playing the next night (day?)

One thing I'm bringing next time is a mic splitter. I'd swapped my Mackie for the house mixer to get a clean direct out for the one vocal mic that goes to the PA. With a splitter, I'll leave the house rig untouched, and won't have to worry about reverting any changes for the next band. I've ordered an Art S8 which should arrive soon. I'll still bring the Mackie just to use it's 6 preamps to feed my interface. That allows me 14 mic inputs. AND I just picked up a M-Audio AudioBuddy (yeah, I know....) so if needed, I could do all 16 inputs as mics. Of course, I need to verify the hardware all plays nice together. And get some more experience with the tracking aspects of Cubase.

Nunio,

Well, that's one mistake you'll never make again!


Good idea to make some time and get everything working as you expect.
Next time, perhaps you could ask someone to go around and gently tap on each mic, so you can see the meters moving for each channel individually.

I do this when I've set up a stage. I carry an iPad so I can see what's going on, and then check each mic in channel order.
It's better to catch something not-working this way, rather than when the musicians are on-stage waiting for you.


Chris

Just a quick update. The December final show recording session went pretty well. Not high fidelity studio recording quality, but a good capture of the live performance. One annoyance: I'd asked the bandleader if there'd be any guests joining us (thinking about extra amps needing to be mic'ed) and he told me no, the lying SOB. 😏 We had a couple great guitarists join us, and someone in the audience had an extra amp to put on stage for them, but no time to mic it and set levels. You can hear it in the room mics, but it's more challenging to mix with those tracks loud enough to hear the guest guitarist.

Another issue: For recording this gig, we stuck with the house PA, and I used an ART S8 splitter for the one vocal mic into my recording rig. For some reason, once we started playing the split mic signal wasn't loud enough for the house PA (seemed ok during sound check?!?!), and it wasn't until the 2nd or 3rd song until someone in the audience told us they couldn't hear the vocals (DIY sound, no soundman, just the band). I had to boost the gain on the mixer, then set FOH and monitor levels which briefly interrupted the flow of the show.

All in all, it was a great show, and I think I was able to capture it.

Speaking of mixing.... That is an area I've have little to no experience. I don't have a trained ear, I don't have a dedicated space I can set up for mixing, and I don't have enough time to learn. I've read about taking two different approaches to mixing a live show recording: 1) mix the show as a whole for a continuous performance listening perspective, or 2) mix each song separately to get the best sound for that song. So far, I've got the whole show in one project roughly mixed with some EQ on various tracks. There are no concrete plans for how to proceed. There are no "release" plans, it's pretty much a vanity project.

I may just pick a track, break it out into a separate project. That would probably be easier than finding the compromise that works best throughout the whole recording. Or maybe pay someone to mix it for us, and possibly let me shoulder surf so I can see how its done. It's been 3 months, and it'd be great to have something to share for all that work.

You are not on a deadline, so you shouldn’t be rushing to get the mixing done. I would love to hear what you’ve got.
I did a live recording of the last “hippie college bar band” I was in. It was to two track Revox tape with a channel from the vocal mixer and a channel from a second mixer for instruments and audience. I worked on that tape off and on during a fifteen year studio career and finished the process later at my home studio after transferring the tape to digital. It is one of my favorite listens and does that band justice.
I hope yours turns out to be a great record of the sound of your band.

Where are you located?

I'm in Maryland, US

Don’t you love it when the ‘band management’ springs a guest performer (plus amp) into the running order…

The surprise for the audience is genuine and welcomed…the surprise for the mixer/recording engineer, who’s disadvantaged and caught out in not being able to mix or record the guest….is anything but welcome !

A stern conversation about ‘need to know beforehand’ criteria should naturally follow on, from a stunt like this…

OK. That’s the opposite coast from me, so I can’t invite you over for a listen.