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Weathervane Multitracks - Steven A. Clark
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #31
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🎧 15 years
You know, it's really not the Recordman technique anymore though. Particularly because the mics are NOT equidistant from the Kick and Snare. The "combined distance" (ie the total distance from the snare + the kickdrum is constant between all three mics). I've been playing with string for micing techniques for years, but after Jon showed me Recorder Man, my tweak of that seems to be really really solid.

Before anyone knocks it on theory, I'd suggest giving it a whirl... it might only work in our acoustic space. We have a high ceiling, so you can get away with a lot there... I don't really think I hear wide phasiness on our toms, actually. When you just listen to the overheads (sdc's panned about 40 to 50 L/R, and ribbon up the middle) they are not very wide at all. Hard panned doesn't work, but neither does it for Recorderman...

Same with cymbals. They balance just fine. Same with recorderman, for that matter. I've only ever experienced bad phase with cymbals when a mic sits conspicuously close to the cymbal's null (ie. the edge). As long as they are both high enough, it works fine for me. They only other thing that doesn't work for me is when sdc's are placed over individual cymbals parallel to one another (the mics, that is) and perpendicular to the ground. I always hear bad phasey cymbals then. Now if I cock the two mics 90 degrees to one another, no matter how far apart they are from each other, it fixes phase problems.

"If you can't hear it, I guess you're in the clear." --- That's of course a loaded statement. Unless you are in a good control listening environment, nobody really knows WHAT is going on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzspritz ➑️
I've tried the recorderman technique (but haven't used a third mic as shown in this video). I do enjoy it but I'd like to discuss the repercussions that come with forcing the snare to be in the center of the image. Perhaps they are good repercussions though. It seems that everything else will have its own phasing issues with this technique. Toms and cymbals will reach all the mic capsules at different times now. I actually enjoy the wide phasey-ness of the toms in these recordings, but I guess I'd watch out for cymbals phasing. But if you can't hear it, I guess you're in the clear.
Old 30th January 2013
  #32
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hey Brain. Do you happen to have the track notes for the final mix session? It would be interesting to know what gear you used to arrive at the final mix.

The reason I ask is because I am 'reverse engineering' the stems as a ear training/engineering exercise. The goal is to recreate the stems from the raw tracks. So far it is going really well and it has forced me to really listen to what's going on in the mix and then devise ways to replicate what I think I am hearing.

Thanks,
Stone
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #33
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bdmctear's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Oh man. That's great that you are doing that. That's exactly what I always hoped people would do. BUT.... the notes for the actual mix are not there this time. Honestly, our analytics showed that no one was looking at that. I'm trying to figure out a good way to notate a mix, in a way that people will be interested and engaged in. It figures that I don't include it this time, and now you ask! Ha!

Any suggestions on how I should do it in the future?

b

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonewalters ➑️
Hey Brain. Do you happen to have the track notes for the final mix session? It would be interesting to know what gear you used to arrive at the final mix.

The reason I ask is because I am 'reverse engineering' the stems as a ear training/engineering exercise. The goal is to recreate the stems from the raw tracks. So far it is going really well and it has forced me to really listen to what's going on in the mix and then devise ways to replicate what I think I am hearing.

Thanks,
Stone
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmctear ➑️
Oh man. That's great that you are doing that. That's exactly what I always hoped people would do. BUT.... the notes for the actual mix are not there this time. Honestly, our analytics showed that no one was looking at that. I'm trying to figure out a good way to notate a mix, in a way that people will be interested and engaged in. It figures that I don't include it this time, and now you ask! Ha!

Any suggestions on how I should do it in the future?

b
No..it's great that you are doing this! When I listened to the raw vocal for this track and the finished version I was TERRIFIED!!! I had no idea where to start or how to turn the incredible vocal performance into the finished stem. But after a process of trial and error I now have the vocal sounding pretty close to the finished stem (well at least to my ears!)

I have to say that reverse engineering the stem has been like a masterclass in vocal EQ and compression. It has forced me to listen, think about, experiment, learn, and problem solve with the ITB tools at my disposal all while making music!

As for the mix notes it's a shame there are none this time as I think they are invaluable in trying to get inside the mixer's mind when it comes to reverse engineering the stems. They really help to better understand what the mixer did, how he did it (which tools he used), and more importantly for my development why he did what he did.

I guess that the number of people reaching for the mix notes may have been small but I know I pored over that info. The notes (for both the recording and mixing phases) are like gold dust to me and truly invaluable as I work on getting better at understanding and using the tools of my craft.

FWIW I liked the way the notes were presented in the past. The only thing I can't remember seeing is what console was used as well as an outline of the hybrid workflow. But let me give this some more thought. Maybe there is a way to present the notes that isn't too time consuming for you, but still provides valuable info for those who really appreciate and look forward to it.

Apologies for the long winded response...I must get back to working on the drums stem. They are giving me a good workout!
Old 30th January 2013
  #35
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
@bdmctear Just found the info for Miner Street studios console!
Old 31st January 2013 | Show parent
  #36
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manuke's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmctear ➑️
What? No video?

I like this a lot... as usual. Please be a part of the Q&A this weekend? I think we need to move it to Sunday. We've got a Weathervane Production Workshop on Saturday.
Hey Brian, thanks. Nah, no more vids, just been trying out some editing software I was given. Hopefully didn't offend anybody.
A Q+A? Sure thing, any info on that?
Enjoyed Jon's vid too, informative and always interesting to see how others do their thing. And he obviously really knows his stuff, always a pleasure listening to his recordings.
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #37
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Finally got around to finishing my remix with the High-Res audio. This was a super fun song to play around with! Thanks Brian.

Old 3rd February 2013
  #38
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minko.kalsbeek's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
TThanks ReZoUnD for your comments! I really appreciate you taking time helping to improve our mixes. I will take them into consideration in my next mixes.

I thought it would be good to also contribute in reviewing cause else we don't know what other people think about our mixes. You can't lurk forever.
Also practicing pinpointing what you like and what you don't like is good practice.

These are my opinions listening to the mixes. Do with them as you like. I do not pretend I've got the audio truth or something. I was humbled by all your entries.

I listened in my acoustically treated studio/writing room on HR824's. With the volume knob set in my normal position (K20).

sbmarkb
I like the overall balance and what you did with the first female background vocal. I like the bass a bit more defined. But solid mix.

BlackFandango
I like the warm feel of your mix. Personally a bit too reverby for me. Like what you did with the background vocals at around 2:00.

nimblemongoose
Like what you did with the strings. But I don't like the overall sound. It's missing some mid or low range in my opinion. Maybe your mp3 conversion did something to your overall sound? I like it on the voice though.

Spede
Like the effects in the beginning. Like the strings. I would like vocals with a bit less reverb. Effect on the background vocals I also like.

Conman57
Like the synths at 2.50. Like the overall sound. I like my vocals a bit louder and a little less reverby. I think the panning is interesting.

projectelroy
I dig the bond sound baseline. Maybe a bit too dark sounding for me. Like the sound of the voice.

pietrorocks
I really dig the clean sound of the vocals. I like what you did around 1.50 with the background. Also like the break. (Waar zit je in Nederland?)

Marcel K-O
Like the panning. Like how you placed the vocals and backgrounds. I feel a little to much hi but can't pinpoint it without a spectrum analyzer. Interesting drum thing at about 2:00 was that in the files or did you do that yourself?

conleec
Like your mix. But compared with the rest of the entries I feel there is something missing in the mid range? Your snare really stands out. I love my AC also.

Manuke
Bent: Like your string intro! What did you use? There are many competing sounds at the same frequencies in the later part of the mix I think. Very nice how you took the song and made something completely different of it.
Straight: Like what you did with the drums. Where does taiko's/drum sounds in the files? Like how you panned the base line. Like the panning in the chorus.

djmj
Like your chorus and what you did with the female backgrounds. I miss something in the overall sound. Maybe some mid or low? Like your panning. Did that come from using the headphones when mixing?

Jamolir
Like the clean intro. Like your drum sound. Could not get that myself. Solid.

spritzspritz
Really like your vocals coming out. What where your unusual EQ settings?

ReZoUnD
Like how you made a complete new intro. Big drums. I feel like there is something missing in the overall sound. Maybe some mids? I don't know. Like how you made the snare come out. Also how you treated the vocals in the chorus.

BCQC
Like what you did with the drums and the base.

e.Blue
Like that your mix is full and what you did with the backgrounds.

minko.kalsbeek
Awful! In comparison with the rest, your music is to soft behind the vocal. Hope you've got a good mastering engineer.

edella
Like the intro and how you placed the vocal. Can't decide if your new drums are better or not. Keep sharing!

RARStudios
I like your approach and what you did with the drums later in the track.

jtg05f
Like the drums and your overall mix. Don't like the tail on the reverb though.

bspeise
Like the overall sound. Your drums are snappy also.


And now I never want to hear the song again
Old 3rd February 2013
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
djmj's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
//djmj
Like your chorus and what you did with the female backgrounds. I miss something in the overall sound. Maybe some mid or low? Like your panning. Did that come from using the headphones when mixing?
//

Thanks a bunch
My room is concrete without any damping and 90 degrees corners. My biggest problem is midrange.

I use Swedish "Cheap" monitors, they sound sharp and crappy but I use a sub-bass to. When I think the mix sounds ok, I test it in my livingroom. I have two Bricklin and two Yamaha NS20 on top of them, midrange speakers in my bricklin are busted, but together with my NS20 it sounds good. But I wouldnt call it pro though

When I adjust using head phones it was more the reverb tails and such, no panning while on head phones.
Cheers
Johan
Old 3rd February 2013
  #40
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bugscoe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Here is my attempt. For some reason this was one of the toughest Weathervane tracks to mix for me. Not sure but I just struggled getting everything to sit well and still pop nicely. I'm living with this mix for now. Mixed using the raw tracks.

Old 4th February 2013
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
djmj's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Digitaly Mastered, please if someone can confirm better audio.

I tried to go for a digital master version. I really tried to use my eyes more then my ears. Checking and analyzing the full spectra of bandwidth, using mutch harder compression/limiter. Comparing to cdΒ΄s I like. Please if someone using good monitors, does it sound good? Still my mix though. You can compare before and after mastering.

Final mix.



Final mix and digitaly mastered.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #42
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borg64's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Very nice tune, as per usual

This mix was an uphill struggle for me. If I did it all over again, I'd focus on cutting more stuff out of the arrangement, rather than trying to fit everything in there through lots of over-processing.

Valuable lessons learnt at any rate. Thanks to all involved!

Sven

Old 6th February 2013 | Show parent
  #43
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bdmctear's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg64 ➑️
Very nice tune, as per usual

This mix was an uphill struggle for me. If I did it all over again, I'd focus on cutting more stuff out of the arrangement, rather than trying to fit everything in there through lots of over-processing.

Valuable lessons learnt at any rate. Thanks to all involved!

Sven

Hey Sven,

Bear in mind that we did quite a bit of room clearing ourselves from the basic raw tracks. I feel like this song, and Cat Martino's songs threw a lot of people for a loop with the "extra material". Listen to our mix now that you've gotten through one yourself just to reference what I'm talking about.

B
Old 6th February 2013 | Show parent
  #44
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borg64's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdmctear ➑️
Hey Sven,

Bear in mind that we did quite a bit of room clearing ourselves from the basic raw tracks. I feel like this song, and Cat Martino's songs threw a lot of people for a loop with the "extra material". Listen to our mix now that you've gotten through one yourself just to reference what I'm talking about.

B

Thanks Brian!

Yeah, I might give this another go, would really like to do this song justice. And this time, I'll try to refrain from opening up the session in the middle of the night "to do some creative rebalancing" on headphones.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #45
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I left most of the material in for this "basic" mix. Edited quite a bit. Some flying around.




Edit:
borg 64
nice drum work and drop outs and dinstant piano. Nice work using the strings with intensity. I like how present your ride is.

bspeise
nice pan bringing the drums back in. Nice vocal mix. Piano sounds a bit wide on headphones (sorry, the kids are asleep now.)

sbmarkb
good track as a "rough mix"

Marcel K-O
I agree - nice drums about 2:00 and good vocal balance

spritzspritz
for real the vocals are nice and present. Nicely balanced. I prefer a little less predelay on the vocal reverb when it's exposed, fwiw. Totally dig the drum treatment at 3:00

ReZoUnD
especially like the end of your intro. Parallel compression on the drums? Nice vocal editing!

BCQC
Slammin' kick!

RARStudios
I like the minimalism. I hadn't considered opening with piano. I'm a vocal guy, though. I thought the bgvs (Down) were a little wide in my headphones. Definitely like the tom, though.

edella
I don't mind the replaced drums, but since you did that, I'd like to hear a crazier mix - further from the original. Maybe multiband compression, or frequency specific at least to control the highs a bit.

manuke
Hell yeah. love that Bent mix. Straight mix has a nice warm vocal, but seems a little heavy on the low end in my crappy ear buds. nice touches all around, though. My hearo

Last edited by sethn27; 8th February 2013 at 05:53 AM.. Reason: added some feedback for others
Old 10th February 2013
  #46
Old 13th February 2013 | Show parent
  #47
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andyspiller's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A kind of slightly different take - more of a remix/rearrangement.......

https://soundcloud.com/andy_spiller/...steven-a-clark
Old 13th February 2013 | Show parent
  #48
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyspiller ➑️
A kind of slightly different take - more of a remix/rearrangement.......

https://soundcloud.com/andy_spiller/...steven-a-clark
Whoaaaa. Andy, this is great. It's like a Gospel track. Are those drum loops? Drum machine? Would love a window into how you went about this. Amazing work.
Old 13th February 2013 | Show parent
  #49
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by penglish ➑️
Whoaaaa. Andy, this is great. It's like a Gospel track. Are those drum loops? Drum machine? Would love a window into how you went about this. Amazing work.
Hi Peter

Its me playing a Groove Agent One Drum Machine preset and then a BFD Kit. After that I found a Stylus RMX expander preset to give me the electronic hits in the background (its actually a swinging loop that has been straightened). The thing that drove it was grooving the Bass to the vocal - I found Steven's Vocal really funky and soulful, and it made me want to inject a bit more harmonic movement into the track. I love the overall Harmonic progression so I just wanted to add a bit of tension.

Other than that its just download the Multitracks and line them up and strip everything back to Vocals and see what they are doing and then see what happens. The timing is great on the original and I love the vibe and relaxed throwaway nature of the BVs, it makes them doubly powerful.

Unfortunately I don't get to do this kind of thing as often as I'd like but the song grabbed me as soon as I heard it and I knew I should have a go
as soon as I had a few hours.

Glad you like it - I had a blast

Best regards

Andy
Old 13th February 2013 | Show parent
  #50
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andyspiller's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuke ➑️
Bent


Straight
Awesome Manuke!! I love the Bent version in particular - could be and Indie film soundtrack in another life......
Old 15th February 2013
  #51
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
My mix of this:

Great song!
Old 16th February 2013
  #52
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Hi folks,

Here is my remix of "Bounty". I'm a little late to the party but this one took a while. I've only used the (slightly re-arranged) vocal tracks plus a few piano snippets from the original 16-bit files and slowed them down to 87 bpm for a different feel and to better fit into this particular genre. Everything else is new. Enjoy



Feel free to comment.
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Wow....you remix guys are pretty cool. I like some of these changes a lot.

Not my specialty but it's given me some great perspective to try new things.

I felt from the beginning that this song could have used a better groove and you had the foresight to go after it.

Good job.
Old 17th February 2013 | Show parent
  #54
Jar
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Bit late to the party but heres my mix, im pretty new to mixing but any feedback would be great.




p.s. Just found out about Shaking Through today......its so awesome!
Old 17th February 2013
  #55
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Steven A Clark - Bounty (unofficial remix)

My first post ever, so not really sure how to do this at all. Hope it attatches the file.

Unofficial remix Steven A Clark - Bounty

I played guitars myself.

Cheers.
Old 17th February 2013
  #56
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Steven A Clark - Bounty (unofficial remix)

Sorry it did not attatch last time, I'll try again.


Steven A Clark - Bounty (unofficial remix)

Guitars by me.

Cheers
Attached Files
Old 18th February 2013 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
manuke's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
minko + sethn27 Great of you both doing the critiques, much appreciated. minko I thought your vocs are too upfront and the strings could come up, but I like it, nice and fat. The intro to mine is detuned strings and synth, and yeah it gets a little woolly at the end. And the drum is just the floor tom.
andyspiller Great stuff again, hope you get to do more, and thanks.
fripholm Interesting take on it, really grows on you, nice one.
Old 19th February 2013
  #58
Gear Maniac
 
djmj's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Bounty "Jazz club version"

After I bought monitors I wanted to make a new mix on this great song. This is a jazz kind of club mix.
Cheers
Johan

Old 23rd February 2013
  #59
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hey guys,

Here's my shot at Bounty. This is my first attempt at a full band mix down. Long time musician and FOH engineer, just never really had time to mix in the studio and always ended up paying someone else. Trying to learn this new skill now, and I know the fastest way to learn is to climb into the proverbial ring with people much more experienced than you and take you licks. So fire away.

No mastering on this track (other than a Maxim on the end of the signal chain to bring up the overall levels to a usable level) and a loose fade on both ends of the track.

Thanks!
Jeremy

Old 25th February 2013
  #60
Gear Maniac
 
squirreltrench's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Hey guys, I am sorry I am late to this party. I look forward to giving this one a shot in mixing.

I did notice something about the drum technique video though. I'm not sure, but it looks like Jon slides his finger along the string as he moves it from one mic to the other. I would think it does not help prevent phase issues at all if you slide your finger on the string in that set-up.... after all sound waves have no idea about the total distance between kick and snare. As far as sound is concerned, there is only the distance to the kick and distance to the snare. Now if Jon did not slide his finger, then no problem, the distance from both kick and snare is the same. But if he *did* slide his finger, then BOTH the distance from the kick AND the distance from the snare are DIFFERENT.

Would love to hear feedback from any folks who are solid in drum tracking technique.
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