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Jim Williams: What's happening to all your post?
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #211
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vulture ➡️
Kenny..

Relax dude.
We SEE you
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #212
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer ➡️
No, sir I certainly don't have a chip on my shoulder toward you. Hell, I've asked you for help with PT since I don't use it that often(been with Steinberg since 95) and you helped me. And I appreciate the help. And I most certainly don't think your a waste of space. I've seen you help many.
Ok, in that case I take it back and apologise!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer ➡️
I've also seen you spout venom for no reason, same as Jim.
Now, that I DO disagree with. To my knowledge, I've never cut down someone's question with "why would you want to make music like that" and put my own sense of personal aesthetic before a technical or musical query. I'm a big believer in there being good and bad examples of every style. I've also never (to my knowledge) gone on rants about how everything of worth was invented in the UK, or how there's nothing interesting outside my own country's borders, or things like that. I HAVE taken people to task when they try to pass off other people's experiences or internet writings as their own, or they say things that are just technically wrong, and I'm not always particularly gentle about it. But I think that's a different thing. I would never say I've spouted "venom"...been a bit scathing, yes. If I have, I apologise unreservedly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer ➡️
Your advise and expertise holds far more weight without the senseless cuts .i.e Geoff T, Paul Frindle so on.
I am NOT in the same league as those guys!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer ➡️
I think Jim went way out of his way to help folks and try to teach on the tech side which is so valuable. To say he has no right to comment on mixing seems a bit harsh.
I agree re the tech side. He has every right to comment about the recording process - I just didn't agree with the attitude that his way was the only way to do things, every other way is wrong, and so on. Plus if you read some of his writings, he IS trying to imply he's worked with the greats on their recordings, instead of them using his gear. I've asked him several times where we can hear some of the recordings he HAS made, using the studio he talks so much about. Never had so much as a band name I can look for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer ➡️
By the way, his name is well known outside of this site. I know techs in my area that don't come here to GS that do know of Jim and his mods and have learned from him. He doesn't need GS but this community certainly benefits from him. Be a shame to lose him because of silly **** such as bickering.
I agree.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #213
Deleted User
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Here's why it's a loss to loose Jim:

There's a thousand people here that can tell you how to correctly use a certain brand of compressor for example, and more or less they will all be correct.

But there are only a handful of people here who have near photographic knowledge of what is going on inside that compressor and who can tell you exactly how to mod it to make it perform better. And multiply that by thousands of different pieces of professional equipment that Jim has in depth internal knowledge of and experience with. That's where Jim fits in.

Anybody can duplicate learning how a compressor works. The learning curve for twisting knobs just ain't that high. But try duplicating what Jim has brought to the table in terms of knowing what's happening under the hood and you have a learning curve of about 30 years ahead of you. Good luck in duplicating that anytime soon.
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Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #214
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Case ➡️
Here's why it's a loss to loose Jim:

There's a thousand people here that can tell you how to correctly use a certain brand of compressor for example, and more or less they will all be correct.

But there are only a handful of people here who have near photographic knowledge of what is going on inside that compressor and who can tell you exactly how to mod it to make it perform better. And multiply that by thousands of different pieces of professional equipment that Jim has in depth internal knowledge of and experience with. That's where Jim fits in.

Anybody can duplicate learning how a compressor works. The learning curve for twisting knobs just ain't that high. But try duplicating what Jim has brought to the table in terms of knowing what's happening under the hood and you have a learning curve of about 30 years ahead of you. Good luck in duplicating that anytime soon.
Let me put it to you this way, let me tell you why its a loss for Jim to loose this forum: Because I could bet that a large percentage of his clients come from this forum. So its not a smart decision to leave if you ask me.

Dont worry, im sure he will be back...
Old 6th October 2012
  #215
nms
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Here's an idea. Maybe Jim just decided to make a change and spend his time with better things and less BS? Kudos to Jim if that's where he went.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #216
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➡️
Let me put it to you this way, let me tell you why its a loss for Jim to loose this forum: Because I could bet that a large percentage of his clients come from this forum. So its not a smart decision to leave if you ask me.

Dont worry, im sure he will be back...
Yes, the deletions were after the Neve 5088 thread where he really lost it and said the equipment didn't matter at the end of the day as everything becomes an mp3..

When someone pointed out he makes a living from modding equipment, he flaked..

He was only here to sell himself anyway..

There were less and less interesting posts from the guy - just a lot of snarky
I hate color, Neve, everything etc..
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #217
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reid ➡️

When someone pointed out he makes a living from modding equipment, he flaked..
Are you saying it was this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp ➡️
I still don't understand the line of work Jim chose to pursue, given the fact that his stance is a complete 'ha, ha, ha' to customers of his that spent the extra bucks to make their equipment sound just that little bit better, when the modd'r himself claims nobody gives a **** what aesthetic an engineer has and what he or she tries to incorporate into any given record by chosing and using equipments of their choice.
So his ironic stance states: don't spend any money on equipments as listeners don't care. Don't pay me to mod your soundcraft/toft/etc or your mics, as listeners don't give a ****.

Well done Jim.
To be fair, this is what he was responding to: (keep in mind, this was the Rupert Neve 5088 announcement thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
How does one make any money after spending $32,000 on a 16 channel mixer? I paid $550 for my Soundcraft Delta 16 channel and I thought I paid too much. I'm still trying to make that investment back, maybe this year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
What is suprising is people are suggesting you go out and pay $50,000 for a analog 16 channel console. The average audio guy, will have a hard time making that back.

If you have that money and want to play, great. Suggesting this is a good investment is what is suprising since there are not too many rooms willing to take that chance in today's market of downloads and free MP3's.

This is 2012, not 1990. Those investments must be made with a solid business plan or you too will lose your shirt like all those that came before you.

I want to hear from the guy that paid $50,000 for that console, who isn't rich and famous. Maybe he can tell us how much a 16 channel analog console can take in these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
(after hearing the price) Is that for a stripped down model? How much for a fully fitted 8 channel?

In used console value that's about 48 eight channel consoles around here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
I'm not concerned about my $550 Soundcraft Delta 16 sending me to the poorhouse. It is paid off, is your 5088?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
If you think that $50,000 16 channel console will help you sell CD's, put a pic of it on your next release and get back to us on how many units it sold for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
The average listener could care less what console they used. Only audio dudes stress about that stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
It's still true, only audio "dudes" stress about audio minutia, the average person couldn't give a snot's ass. Go ask some if you don't belive me, just don't ask audio guys, but non audio people.
Old 6th October 2012
  #218
nms
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🎧 10 years
It's a piss poor state of affairs when that argument comes about and yeah that sure is one hell of a hipocrisy from the guy who champions this or that capactitor and makes a living modding gear.

He's right. The average person could not care less if a 5088 was used or an old Soundcraft. They also don't care what mic you used. Only "audio dudes" stress about that stuff. And yes, most just listen on MP3.

However, the "average person" cares how music SOUNDS. Does the sound just happen on its own? NO. It comes from what the "audio dudes" do. Just because the listener doesn't know what a Neve 5088 is doesn't make him deaf and unable to appreciate what comes out of it.

As for MP3s..

If music is nothing more than a job for you and all you care about is churning out recordings that are "good enough"..

If your target demographic is people you think "probably won't know the difference"..

Hey, have at it.

Speaking for myself, I've devoted my life to this industry for the past 17 yrs and won't be retiring til I'm deaf. If no one else on earth noticed I'd still do the extra for my own personal level of enjoyment in this pastime which consumes such a large chunk of my life.
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Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #219
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🎧 10 years
yup. just cuz most people won't care if a painter uses a natural bristle or synthetic brush, or even looks at art at all, doesn't mean the artist shouldn't bother caring either...
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Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #220
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
yup. just cuz most people won't care if a painter uses a natural bristle or synthetic brush, or even looks at art at all, doesn't mean the artist shouldn't bother caring either...
I think Jim's point was that he could mod a Soundcraft console to make it sound real nice and for little money... and yet he couldn't conceive why would someone want to buy a 50,000$ console. DIY guy's nature.

As we know, there are good arguments to buy such console. As there are many to buy a Mercedes instead of a pimped Honda Civic.
Old 6th October 2012
  #221
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His bs, guessing, how he simply made things up about dav electronics BG1 was a turn off and a joke. Mick Hinton, the designer of dav, asked Jim to cease and desist with his disinformation campaign.

He ignored him.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #222
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpkyer ➡️
I think Jim's point was that he could mod a Soundcraft console to make it sound real nice and for little money... and yet he couldn't conceive why would someone want to buy a 50,000$ console. DIY guy's nature.

As we know, there are good arguments to buy such console. As there are many to buy a Mercedes instead of a pimped Honda Civic.
Really?

Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #223
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

.

I hate to say this, guys - but many of Jim's points are spot on. He does bring up legitimate cost and value concerns - which should be addressed by aspiring young studio owners, engineers and producers, etc. And we should all be careful about the promised, advertised and coveted voo doo of any piece of hw or sw.

And although I think it might have been done in a "classier" way, I do believe it's IMPORTANT that genuine opinions can be EXPRESSED around here. Again, determined users can and WILL find out for themselves whether a piece of gear works for them, and we should NOT be so fearful of GS advertisers that we can't say what we truly think! And let's face it - there is a LOT of hype in the gear market advertising and publicity!

On a personal note, I will likely never pay $50k for a summing mixer. And my finished work goes out mixed entirely ITB to broadcast syndicated and indy TV, film, radio, web, etc. No summing hw involved.

But I do agree with Kenny and some others here - that it is a bit tricky because of the potential lack of relevance with some of the points in the new product thread. Kenny, your suggestion to split the thread out was a fine one, IMO.

Plush, you seem to have a genuine issue with Jim, which I'm not familiar with, and I certainly give you the benefit of the doubt here.

Of course, the grumpy old man thing can be inappropriate and a turn off - and I know I'm guilty of this myself sometimes.

I hope things get smoothed out - because, again, despite the grumpy old man stuff, Jim has a lot of valid points.

I catch myself being overly cynical sometimes, and recognize that I probably just need a hug at that moment.

Lastly, if I want to keep a thread positive, I will - as Kenny did - ask a mod to split it, or better yet - simply START A NEW ONE -
or, even BETTER, post a pleasant reminder in the thread that you're trying to keep the thread positive, and ask that posters respect this -
which ALMOST ALWAYS WORKS! You can see this in my Michael Jackson thread here:

Post here if you worked on Michael Jackson's DANGEROUS album

This is actually a GREAT example of a thread that got merged with another OP's thread on MJ - because we wanted to keep all the posts from MJ's engineers focused in one place! Obviously, the mods are super busy, and we can't expect them to honor every request - but if you're nice, you might get a favor here and there.

Cheers, y'all.

.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #224
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.

I catch myself being overly cynical sometimes, and recognize that I probably just need a hug at that moment.

Cheers, y'all.

.
Awww...

Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #225
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosted ➡️
Awww...

.

heh

Those tires above look like they probably are calcium filled! awesome!

.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #226
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.

heh

Those tires above look like they probably are calcium filled! awesome!

.
Jim lives less than 5 miles from me, but I doubt he would want me to drive over just for a hug...

I'm sure he's just clearing his head from this place, and I'm sure he'll be back.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #227
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.

I hate to say this, guys - but many of Jim's points are spot on. He does bring up legitimate cost and value concerns - which should be addressed by aspiring young studio owners, engineers and producers, etc. And we should all be careful about the promised, advertised and coveted voo doo of any piece of hw or sw.
Agreed 100%. But isn't that something that self corrects?

Is anyone really spending 50k on a console with no idea what it offers or if they can profit from it?

Is anyone really spending 50k on a console based on hype from GS?

I think it's kind of understood that the more you spend, the more your returns get diminished, but anyone even thinking about dropping 50k on a console, knows that going in. Or is soo ignorant that they're also sitting on a stack of cash that will depleted pretty soon anyway.

Anyone seriously considering this piece of kit, is probably looking for advice about this piece vs others in it's class. Notably the API or Aurora sidecar.

A general "all money spent on gear is wasted" thread could certainly be fun. I just wonder if it changes anyone's mind. This is no longer a "big money" business. It's a passion based business. We love it and we hope to make enough money to stay in it to survive. But we don't make purely financial decisions. Although, if you think about it, it's all financial in the end.

If I sold all my high end gear and just used gear "good enough" to get the job done, I will eventually lose my passion for this art. Great sound and great gear go hand in hand. Even if it's a game of inches. I spend hours on those inches. Once I'm thinking about every place I can cut corners, I'm an accountant. Then the work suffers, I'm no longer getting good gigs and it snowballs until I'm recording "vanity" projects on weekends.

The best people in this business are creative but they also love their gear. Some of it cheap, some of it expensive, but it all matters. Having that hardware compressor (or 50k console) changes how you approach that passion.

Think about how you feel working on a million dollar console. Are you bored or excited? While the product may not "sonically" be that much better, the passion for what you put to disc will be that much better. It's not even debatable.

And I'd bet that Jim knows this. Sometimes we all get to a point where it all seems silly and pointless. I do it myself. But it's not the best road to go down. It doesn't make better art to think this way.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #228
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
Agreed 100%. But isn't that something that self corrects?

Is anyone really spending 50k on a console with no idea what it offers or if they can profit from it?

Is anyone really spending 50k on a console based on hype from GS?

I think it's kind of understood that the more you spend, the more your returns get diminished, but anyone even thinking about dropping 50k on a console, knows that going in. Or is soo ignorant that they're also sitting on a stack of cash that will depleted pretty soon anyway.

Anyone seriously considering this piece of kit, is probably looking for advice about this piece vs others in it's class. Notably the API or Aurora sidecar.

A general "all money spent on gear is wasted" thread could certainly be fun. I just wonder if it changes anyone's mind. This is no longer a "big money" business. It's a passion based business. We love it and we hope to make enough money to stay in it to survive. But we don't make purely financial decisions. Although, if you think about it, it's all financial in the end.

If I sold all my high end gear and just used gear "good enough" to get the job done, I will eventually lose my passion for this art. Great sound and great gear go hand in hand. Even if it's a game of inches. I spend hours on those inches. Once I'm thinking about every place I can cut corners, I'm an accountant. Then the work suffers, I'm no longer getting good gigs and it snowballs until I'm recording "vanity" projects on weekends.

The best people in this business are creative but they also love their gear. Some of it cheap, some of it expensive, but it all matters. Having that hardware compressor (or 50k console) changes how you approach that passion.

Think about how you feel working on a million dollar console. Are you bored or excited? While the product may not "sonically" be that much better, the passion for what you put to disc will be that much better. It's not even debatable.

And I'd bet that Jim knows this. Sometimes we all get to a point where it all seems silly and pointless. I do it myself. But it's not the best road to go down. It doesn't make better art to think this way.
Sure, I used to obsess over an inch. I used to obsess over a millimeter. I still do when it comes to certain things that I like best about making music.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #229
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Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
Agreed 100%. But isn't that something that self corrects?

Is anyone really spending 50k on a console with no idea what it offers or if they can profit from it?

Is anyone really spending 50k on a console based on hype from GS?

I think it's kind of understood that the more you spend, the more your returns get diminished, but anyone even thinking about dropping 50k on a console, knows that going in. Or is soo ignorant that they're also sitting on a stack of cash that will depleted pretty soon anyway.

Anyone seriously considering this piece of kit, is probably looking for advice about this piece vs others in it's class. Notably the API or Aurora sidecar.

A general "all money spent on gear is wasted" thread could certainly be fun. I just wonder if it changes anyone's mind. This is no longer a "big money" business. It's a passion based business. We love it and we hope to make enough money to stay in it to survive. But we don't make purely financial decisions. Although, if you think about it, it's all financial in the end.

If I sold all my high end gear and just used gear "good enough" to get the job done, I will eventually lose my passion for this art. Great sound and great gear go hand in hand. Even if it's a game of inches. I spend hours on those inches. Once I'm thinking about every place I can cut corners, I'm an accountant. Then the work suffers, I'm no longer getting good gigs and it snowballs until I'm recording "vanity" projects on weekends.

The best people in this business are creative but they also love their gear. Some of it cheap, some of it expensive, but it all matters. Having that hardware compressor (or 50k console) changes how you approach that passion.

Think about how you feel working on a million dollar console. Are you bored or excited? While the product may not "sonically" be that much better, the passion for what you put to disc will be that much better. It's not even debatable.

And I'd bet that Jim knows this. Sometimes we all get to a point where it all seems silly and pointless. I do it myself. But it's not the best road to go down. It doesn't make better art to think this way.
.

A lot of good points, but a summing mixer is just a summing mixer, at the end of the day.

I'd rather ANY DAY hear a great musician in the NYC subway, than pristinely recorded blah.

And especially these days, gear certainly does NOT get me as excited about music - as the music itself.

And if you have to choose between a car and a summing mixer, and the business is limited, etc., then...

So I certainly can appreciate Jim's perspective here.

Once you've done it enough, it's difficult to find inspiration in only the gear.

But I'm in a place now where I'd rather be doing music I absolutely love, than just doing any old crap for work. And I have the luxury of that, as well.

And yes, sometimes - many times, it means not being in the studio for even months, and then slaving away again for weeks or months on something. It's kind of the nature of the work, as well as the business now.

Of course, we're all in different positions and different stages, and the business itself is WAY different than it was when I got first into it in the late 80's in high school.

Then, when I started my Manhattan studio in the mid 90s, I financed at high rates, and spent a boatload of money on gear for ages. It was good while it lasted, but it's not all that. and if I could give my 20-year-old self some better advice about income versus expenses, I would, indeed!

And now, any yahoo with a laptop can blow away what we were able to do back then - especially with the more commercial production I've always loved.

So, again - I can appreciate the grumpy old man spew, as I have my own version. Even though I know it's not the most productive expression here.

.
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Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #230
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Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpkyer ➡️
I think Jim's point was that he could mod a Soundcraft console to make it sound real nice and for little money... and yet he couldn't conceive why would someone want to buy a 50,000$ console. DIY guy's nature.

As we know, there are good arguments to buy such console. As there are many to buy a Mercedes instead of a pimped Honda Civic.
yup. not arguing either way... very sympathetic to Jim's point of view and his right to share it... good guy doing good work saying good things...
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #231
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.

A lot of good points, but a summing mixer is just a summing mixer, at the end of the day.

I'd rather ANY DAY hear a great musician in the NYC subway, than pristinely recorded blah.
Not sure what one has to do with the other. I'd rather be surfing in Hawaii than tracking on the 5088 as well. But if I am tracking a record, I'd rather have this console in front of me than not. And if my business can support the 50k investment, then it's a good one as I will be more psyched about my task.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.
And especially these days, gear certainly does NOT get me as excited about music - as the music itself.
I've always felt that way. And we all should. A great microphone in front of a lousy singer is useless. It's a waste of electricity. But when you have that amazing singer in the vocal booth and you pull out a 5k microphone and it brings out all of the subtlety of the performance, you will be excited. Mostly about the performance, but also about your capturing of that performance. And if you don't really care about the capture and are just enjoying the performance, then you need not be there other than to be an audience member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.
And if you have to choose between a car and a summing mixer, and the business is limited, etc., then...
My business pays for my car. So anything that makes my business better, makes it easier to afford both. It's an investment. You seem to think it's a one-sided deal. That the money goes out the window without anything coming back. That's not how money works. Or not how it should. When you buy something, it works for you to make money with it. Whether you put it in the bank or buy a piece of gear. Only bad investments waste money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.
So I certainly can appreciate Jim's perspective here.
Sure. If he won't make the money back with what he does for a living, it is a waste of money. But he wasn't talking about his own personal situation. He was suggesting others should feel and do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
If you think that $50,000 16 channel console will help you sell CD's, put a pic of it on your next release and get back to us on how many units it sold for you.
He's certainly allowed to have that opinion. But it's still an opinion. Based on his own personal narrow situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.
Once you've done it enough, it's difficult to find inspiration in only the gear.
I'm not suggesting that the gear itself does the work or inspires you but we're hired for what we bring to the table. The artists bring their talent. I bring my production and my engineering skills which include the use of my gear. It all goes hand in hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.
But I'm in a place now where I'd rather be doing music I absolutely love, than just doing any old crap for work.
And that's the beauty of it. When you work on stuff you love, you will be great at it and it gets you more work. Because it's great. When all you work on is bad local bands or "vanity" weekend projects, it becomes very difficult to move on because you can't showcase your work.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #232
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
very sympathetic to Jim's point of view and his right to share it...
What do you think of dbjp's right to say what he said?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp ➡️
I still don't understand the line of work Jim chose to pursue, given the fact that his stance is a complete 'ha, ha, ha' to customers of his that spent the extra bucks to make their equipment sound just that little bit better, when the modd'r himself claims nobody gives a **** what aesthetic an engineer has and what he or she tries to incorporate into any given record by chosing and using equipments of their choice.
So his ironic stance states: don't spend any money on equipments as listeners don't care. Don't pay me to mod your soundcraft/toft/etc or your mics, as listeners don't give a ****.

Well done Jim.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #233
Audio X
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
Is anyone really spending 50k on a console with no idea what it offers or if they can profit from it?

Is anyone really spending 50k on a console based on hype from GS?

I think it's kind of understood that the more you spend, the more your returns get diminished, but anyone even thinking about dropping 50k on a console, knows that going in. Or is soo ignorant that they're also sitting on a stack of cash that will depleted pretty soon anyway.

Anyone seriously considering this piece of kit, is probably looking for advice about this piece vs others in it's class. Notably the API or Aurora sidecar.

A general "all money spent on gear is wasted" thread could certainly be fun. I just wonder if it changes anyone's mind. This is no longer a "big money" business. It's a passion based business. We love it and we hope to make enough money to stay in it to survive. But we don't make purely financial decisions. Although, if you think about it, it's all financial in the end.

If I sold all my high end gear and just used gear "good enough" to get the job done, I will eventually lose my passion for this art. Great sound and great gear go hand in hand. Even if it's a game of inches. I spend hours on those inches. Once I'm thinking about every place I can cut corners, I'm an accountant. Then the work suffers, I'm no longer getting good gigs and it snowballs until I'm recording "vanity" projects on weekends.

The best people in this business are creative but they also love their gear. Some of it cheap, some of it expensive, but it all matters. Having that hardware compressor (or 50k console) changes how you approach that passion.

Think about how you feel working on a million dollar console. Are you bored or excited? While the product may not "sonically" be that much better, the passion for what you put to disc will be that much better. It's not even debatable.

And I'd bet that Jim knows this. Sometimes we all get to a point where it all seems silly and pointless. I do it myself. But it's not the best road to go down. It doesn't make better art to think this way.
This response (above) would probably have been better suited than your other responses in the thread in question in which you seemed to join in only to call Jim out as being rude (see below) and then subsequently reporting him.

You basically had not one thing to say about the console (5088) in question but only to Jim's opinion and statements in the thread in which he did not even respond to your accusations once.

By the way that was not a "new product announcement thread" as you keep bringing up or it would have been posted in the "New Product" announcement section. It was in "High End" and was basically a thread where someone was stating they wanted a 5088. These consoles have been on the market for over a year and a half. The 5088 is not new.. and certainly not in anyway was that an announcement thread.

Since you've provided Jim's quotes it's fair to show your post directed at Jim in which he did not respond to you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
I think it's incredibly rude to jump into a thread about a new piece of equipment and complain that it's too expensive. Why? Because it's too expensive for you?

If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it, but don't assume what the rest of us need or want. And certainly don't crap on Rupert Neve. The guy is a legend.

At this price point, it's not for everyone. Trust me. Mr. Neve knows that. If he could have made the thing for 5k, he would have. He'd sell a billion of them. But at it's price point, it fills a need for some people. That's why he invested his time and money and made the darn thing.

What have you invested in? Should we all crap on that?

All the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
It's rude to call people rude? They both know they were being rude.



My stating that someone is rude does not ask for "enforcement".

It was a comment. By your definition, you are also being hypocritical.

Fun. Isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
What's your deal dude? Did Rupert Neve steal your wife?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
That's an incredibly misguided point of view.
all around...Cheers
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #234
Audio X
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
Agreed. And to be clear, I'm not taking sides either. I'd prefer to have Jim Williams stay on as a member and share his knowledge. While I did find him to be grumpy and opinionated at times, it's nothing that requires banning, outcasting or reprimanding.
Again, I find it that you say this because it seems you are still trying to do you best to out him and reprimand him all on your own by not being able to let it go and re-posting his quotes and your obvious reprimands posted above. 2 face vs. amnesia
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #235
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
Nah. I reserve the "ignore" function for posters with nothing to add.

Welcome to mine.
OK, but.. but...

Quote:
BTW - If you'd like to explain to me the down side in having that thread spilt, I'd love to hear it.

Always willing to learn and do better next time.
Um. What? Wait... something is not right... can't quite put my finger on it.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #236
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X ➡️
This response (above) would probably have been better suited than your other responses in the thread in question in which you seemed to join in only to call Jim out as being rude
I didn't think it was pertinent in that thread. It was a discussion about the console. Not about all expensive gear. Had the thread been split (kinda like it has here) I would have posted it. Which I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X ➡️
and then subsequently reporting him.
Now you're just being dishonest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X ➡️
You basically had not one thing to say about the console (5088) in question but only to Jim's opinion and statements in the thread
I have no experience with the console. More posters should show that restraint. I was (and still am) interested in it so I followed the thread. One grumpy poster had derailed it with his diatribes about how expensive gear was a waste of money. Why is it OK for someone to make a general snarky comment in a specific gear thread but it's not OK for someone to call him out on it?

Explain to me how free speech works again. People can say unpopular things and the rest of us have to agree or remain silent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X ➡️
in which he did not even respond to your accusations once.
Not sure why that matters but he did respond more than once. His responses are deleted from his original post but this one was directed at me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
It's still true, only audio "dudes" stress about audio minutia, the average person couldn't give a snot's ass. Go ask some if you don't belive me, just don't ask audio guys, but non audio people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X ➡️
By the way that was not a "new product announcement thread" as you keep bringing up or it would have been posted in the "New Product" announcement section. It was in "High End" and was basically a thread where someone was stating they wanted a 5088. These consoles have been on the market for over a year and a half. The 5088 is not new.. and certainly not in anyway was that an announcement thread.
It seemed that way to me. I've never heard it mentioned on here before. Here is the original post and title.

Quote:
Rupert Neve 5088--eight channel board
I would love one of these! I have the Portico Channel strip and am nuts about it. Trying to find a price for this new offering. Anybody have any leads?

Rupert Neve Designs – Michael Cohen Installs the First Eight-Channel 5088
I must have gotten confused by those pesky "new" and "first" words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X ➡️
Since you've provided Jim's quotes it's fair to show your posts directed at Jim in which he did not respond to you:
Still not sure why it matters whether or not he responded to me. Are you trying to say that he's a king and I'm a peasant and therefore I am not worthy of his response. Although he did respond twice, I find no comfort in that.

As far as posting my posts, who cares? I never deleted them (as Jim did). When someone behaves rudely, I will point it out.

Cheers. smileyface smiley face
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #237
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve ➡️
OK, but.. but...

Um. What? Wait... something is not right... can't quite put my finger on it.
I was reserving his entrance to my ignore list to give him a chance to defend his position that "splitting" off a topic is somehow a bad thing to do.

Plus, my threat to put him there was meant as humor as it pointed out that he was offering nothing of substance.

It's so much funnier when you have to explain it.
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #238
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X ➡️
Again, I find it that you say this because it seems you are still trying to do you best to out him and reprimand him all on your own by not being able to let it go and re-posting his quotes and your obvious reprimands posted above. 2 face vs. amnesia
Quote:
reprimand: to reprove sharply or censure formally usually from a position of authority.
I am not in a position of authority. I was talking about a reprimand from a Moderator. I was merely "commenting" on his off topic rants. They were well deserved IMHO but hold no more weight than any other poster or Jim himself.

I'll say it again. I'd prefer to have Jim Williams stay on as a member and share his knowledge. While I did find him to be grumpy and opinionated at times, it's nothing that requires banning, outcasting or reprimanding.

Seems pretty clear to me.

I only re-posted Jim's posts because I had posted dbjp's post where he questions Jim. I thought it was only fair to also post what he was talking about.

What do you think of dbjp's right to say what he said?
Old 7th October 2012
  #239
Lives for gear
 
jrhager84's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Wow. This is like a schoolyard. Really, guys?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #240
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 ➡️
Wow. This is like a schoolyard. Really, guys?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
To be fair, this is The Moan Zone.
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