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Jim Williams: What's happening to all your post?
Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️



Who's donnie?! I'm sure you're a big name with all the achievements you mention..but at this point you're "GNWT" and no more, no less...


Donny is a character played by Steve Buscemi in "The Big Lebowski"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8X2Qp_6aA
Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman ➡️
but, (re: JW) that world view would be more successfully implemented by someone who wasn't so blatantly wrong so much of the time
My personal view is that if three people agree on anything it must be wrong.

Music and rock and roll are chaotic and disruptive when done right - personally I am an anarchist and believe we should cut the whole thing down and start over.

So, I seek those out who think out of the box and find out what they have to say.

Jim does and all this prissy fiddling over his demeanor - not you WW the general vibe of the discussion is the antithesis of the music, imho.

W, when you use the word wrong, are you talking an objective error or your subjective opinion of his gear that you have listened to?

Said with respect, I am truly interested, though if I lost something in translation, please enlighten me.

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
I've asked jim repeatedly to show us where we can hear his actual recordings. He's not even named an artist he's recorded. I'd love to hear what he's done. I tried!



All I have to go on is what he writes online. What else have I got to go on? I see someone's posts, I form an opinion of them. If I don't like how the guy talks, I'm not going to trust him with money am I?

You listen to people who have heard the result of his work not his words and invest a couple of hundred bucks having him clean up a piece of gear and find out it sounds great and go from there.

That is what I did.

As Robert Hunter wrote and the Dead sang, "Believe it if you need it, if not just pass it on..."

G
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Old 18th January 2013
  #364
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
You listen to people who have heard the result of his work not his words and invest a couple of hundred bucks having him clean up a piece of gear and find out it sounds great and go from there.

That is what I did.

As Robert Hunter wrote and the Dead sang, "Believe it if you need it, if not just pass it on..."

G
I'd rather just hear his work, if he's going to boast about the "right" way to record something...I have plenty of great sounding gear!
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #365
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
I'd rather just hear his work, if he's going to boast about the "right" way to record something...I have plenty of great sounding gear!
I think we both know that that doesn't exist.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #366
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
I am always amazed at how someone's comments here, especially regarding a legend, can come down to this...

"He hurt my feelings"...
G
That's not what was being said.

Good advice can be delivered in a usable way without the attitude that drives people away or causes conflict.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #367
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
So essentially what you don't understand is why Jim thinks a clean signal chain should be the first principle of studio design?

G
Again. That's not what was being said.

Why would you buy a "colored" preamp and have it modded by Jim to be "clean"?

That was the question.

There are so many great preamps out there these days that it makes more sense to buy what you want as far as style. If Jim Williams makes things sound "better" then more power to him. But making a colored preamp clean makes little sense to many of us.

And since we're on the subject, I don't understand this idea of using a clean preamp at all if you want a colored sound. Even if I agree that you can match my colored sound (which I don't) after the fact, why would I want to? I have the sound right in front of me. I like the sound of colored preamps. Using anything besides what I want seems like a wasted step. If I know I want steak, I don't buy chicken and add a steak flavor to it. I get steak.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
That's not what was being said.

Good advice can be delivered in a usable way without the attitude that drives people away or causes conflict.
Kenny,

With all due respect, not trying to be flip here, that is a bit passive aggressive.

If one's attitude was a music pre-req, you and I both know how much music never would have been made.

The issue with Jim is a straw man of some kind you seem to be setting up and the premise is, I guess, correct if wrong.

If Jim can't point to something that he has recorded??? or produced?? or something?? that means by definition, his mods are no good????

If so, like asking a basketball player why he didn't hit 60 home runs.

Jim is a technician who works on gear, why exactly does he have to jump some imaginary bar to satisfy others exactly?

I am not disrespecting you or anyone else here, my friend. I honestly want to understand.

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
Again. That's not what was being said.

Why would you buy a "colored" preamp and have it modded by Jim to be "clean"?

That was the question.

There are so many great preamps out there these days that it makes more sense to buy what you want as far as style. If Jim Williams makes things sound "better" then more power to him. But making a colored preamp clean makes little sense to many of us.

And since we're on the subject, I don't understand this idea of using a clean preamp at all if you want a colored sound. Even if I agree that you can match my colored sound (which I don't) after the fact, why would I want to? I have the sound right in front of me. I like the sound of colored preamps. Using anything besides what I want seems like a wasted step. If I know I want steak, I don't buy chicken and add a steak flavor to it. I get steak.

A respectful question Kenny.

How many of Jim's mods have you heard????

Why would you buy a "colored" preamp and have it modded by Jim to be "clean"?

First off, like many on GS, you are using the term clean and the opposite you define as colored, as if it were an off switch or either or.

Sorry, black and white are a dichotomy, objective, clean or colored in reference to sound is not either or, but subjective, our opinion, which we are all entitled to.

As the old pol said, we all are allowed our own opinion but not our own facts.

There is no colored or clean but no matter what the sound, if there is noise or dirt, don't want it in my signal chain.

When you clean your house, does it change the character of your home or make it more comfortable?

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #370
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
A respectful question Kenny.

How many of Jim's mods have you heard????

Why would you buy a "colored" preamp and have it modded by Jim to be "clean"?

First off, like many on GS, you are using the term clean and the opposite you define as colored, as if it were an off switch or either or.

Sorry, black and white are a dichotomy, objective, clean or colored in reference to sound is not either or, but subjective, our opinion, which we are all entitled to.

As the old pol said, we all are allowed our own opinion but no our own facts.

There is no colored or clean but no matter what the sound, if there is noise or dirt, don't want it in my signal chain.

When you clean your house, does it change the character of your home or make it more comfortable?

G
There is no spoon!

I agree with Kenny....
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #371
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
Kenny,

With all due respect, not trying to be flip here, that is a bit passive aggressive.

If one's attitude was a music pre-req, you and I both know how much music never would have been made.

The issue with Jim is a straw man of some kind you seem to be setting up and the premise is, I guess, correct if wrong.

If Jim can't point to something that he has recorded??? or produced?? or something?? that means by definition, his mods are no good????

If so, like asking a basketball player why he didn't hit 60 home runs.

Jim is a technician who works on gear, why exactly does he have to jump some imaginary bar to satisfy others exactly?

I am not disrespecting you or anyone else here, my friend. I honestly want to understand.

G
You're mixing up the questions and replies. I have never asked anyone to show me their music or credentials to back up their ability to do what they do or even say what they say. I (and others) were just stating that while his information on mods was very helpful on theses forums, his dogmatic approach was less than desirable.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #372
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
A respectful question Kenny.

How many of Jim's mods have you heard????
Zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️

Why would you buy a "colored" preamp and have it modded by Jim to be "clean"?

First off, like many on GS, you are using the term clean and the opposite you define as colored, as if it were an off switch or either or.

Sorry, black and white are a dichotomy, objective, clean or colored in reference to sound is not either or, but subjective, our opinion, which we are all entitled to.

As the old pol said, we all are allowed our own opinion but no our own facts.
I understand that it's not a black a white issue but when discussing mic preamps it helps to assign labels. Even if it isn't perfect. Otherwise there would be no discussion. Neve, API and Chandlers do not sound the same. But they are miles away from Avalon, Grace, Millenia and True Precision. So we put them into categories. My Dakings actually walk the line of being a bit of both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
There is no colored or clean but no matter what the sound, if there is noise or dirt, don't want it in my signal chain.
I'm not talking about "noise or dirt". I'm talking about the character of the preamp. Some sound warmer or more creamy or less crystal clear. If that works for me, I'm using it. I'm not interested in a crystal clear sound that I can then change later. I know that I'm not going to change it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️

When you clean your house, does it change the character of your home or make it more comfortable?

G
This clearly shows that you don't have an appreciation for colored mic preamps. Which is fine. But just like Jim, your opinions are just that. Your opinions. You're not objectively correct.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
I'd rather just hear his work, if he's going to boast about the "right" way to record something...I have plenty of great sounding gear!
psycho - wow - dude really

do you ask the ceo of uad what his music sounds like before you buy a
2,000 pre-amp from them??????


the right way to do something that can be done 10,000 ways is what exactly?


I guess plenty means enough great gear, so congrats, I want as much great gear as I can find.

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #374
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
psycho - wow - dude really

do you ask the ceo of uad what his music sounds like before you buy a
2,000 pre-amp from them??????

G
With all due respect, you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. Either you don't want to read what people are writing (so you can argue your own made up point) or you really are just missing the points here.

Psycho Monkey just said "if he's going to boast about the "right" way to record something".

That has nothing to do with buying Jim's mods or products. Zero.

Jim has a habit of jumping into our world. The world of recording or engineering records. He gives advice in this very specific area. So if he's going to tell me which capacitor to use to replace my current ones on my console, I'm happy to shut up and listen. But if he's going to rant that we should all be using fast and clean preamps to capture sound, I will absolutely disagree with him on that. And while I don't ask for a resume when I read a person's advice, his experience in the studio is more important to me when he's doling out recording advice.

There's a reason why Rupert Neve doesn't built his newer preamps to sound like his older ones. Probably because he thinks the newer ones are better. But not every recording engineer agrees with him. Even though he designed the best preamp ever made, recording engineers still use our ears to determine our tools.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
This clearly shows that you don't have an appreciation for colored mic preamps. Which is fine. But just like Jim, your opinions are just that. Your opinions. You're not objectively correct.
Dude,

This may sound flip, but going to ask for all who are scratching their heads like me.

Who died and made you Pope of the religion of the Pre-Amp, The All High Definer of the Objective Definition of Color and Clean??

Cause what you are doing is saying subjective words that mean something different to everyone and saying, no, this is what I believe.

Sorry, though, don't want to make this ad hominum, but

NO ONE CAN BE OBJECTIVELY CORRECT ABOUT ANYTHING SUBJECTIVE

And I keep saying that of course, my opinions about the subjective are just opinions.

But OBJECTIVELY, to not evaluate the product of 40 years of research and sound recording information because you don't like the way someone behaves is stupid, and that is not my opinion, it is your mind set.

Not my opinion, sort of like your wing man psycho monkey who doesn't want to hear Jim's mods because he, psycho has "great gear".

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT




A respectful question Kenny.

I said - How many of Jim's mods have you heard????
You said - Zero.

Presented without comment.

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
With all due respect, you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. Either you don't want to read what people are writing (so you can argue your own made up point) or you really are just missing the points here.

Psycho Monkey just said "if he's going to boast about the "right" way to record something".

That has nothing to do with buying Jim's mods or products. Zero.

Jim has a habit of jumping into our world. The world of recording or engineering records. He gives advice in this very specific area. So if he's going to tell me which capacitor to use to replace my current ones on my console, I'm happy to shut up and listen. But if he's going to rant that we should all be using fast and clean preamps to capture sound, I will absolutely disagree with him on that. And while I don't ask for a resume when I read a person's advice, his experience in the studio is more important to me when he's doling out recording advice.

There's a reason why Rupert Neve doesn't built his newer preamps to sound like his older ones. Probably because he thinks the newer ones are better. But not every recording engineer agrees with him. Even though he designed the best preamp ever made, recording engineers still use our ears to determine our tools.
Oh, I get it, amazing, you are engineers, and he is not:

Jim has a habit of jumping into our world.

Again presented without comment.

I love it and you guys, now I understand - this has been going on for 40 years +.

I guess it will be going on for another 40 years.

OK, OK, you guys win, give me my Producer Fader, the one that does nothing, and I will be quiet.

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️

There's a reason why Rupert Neve doesn't built his newer preamps to sound like his older ones. Probably because he thinks the newer ones are better. But not every recording engineer agrees with him. Even though he designed the best preamp ever made, recording engineers still use our ears to determine our tools.
The reason, imho, is that there is no demand for the product, I think.

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #379
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
Dude,

This may sound flip, but going to ask for all who are scratching their heads like me.

Who died and made you Pope of the religion of the Pre-Amp, The All High Definer of the Objective Definition of Color and Clean??
My apologies if it came off that way but I'm saying quite the opposite. What works for me is just what works for me. I have never (to my memory) told someone that the way they make records is wrong and that their preamp choices are incorrect. My issue is with people who do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
Cause what you are doing is saying subjective words that mean something different to everyone and saying, no, this is what I believe.
I'm saying what I believe on a subjective subject.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
NO ONE CAN BE OBJECTIVELY CORRECT ABOUT ANYTHING SUBJECTIVE
We agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
But OBJECTIVELY, to not evaluate the product of 40 years of research and sound recording information because you don't like the way someone behaves is stupid, and that is not my opinion, it is your mind set.
What am I ignoring? You asked me if I tried his mods and I said "No". It has absolutely nothing to do with his attitude. I just don't own anything that he mods. As far as I know. I don't base gear decisions based on my disagreements on GS. I am one of the most adamant forces against Ethan Winer's Myths yet I would buy his products in a heartbeat. A good product is still a good product.
Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #380
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
Oh, I get it, amazing, you are engineers, and he is not:

Jim has a habit of jumping into our world.

Again presented without comment.

I love it and you guys, now I understand - this has been going on for 40 years +.

I guess it will be going on for another 40 years.

OK, OK, you guys win, give me my Producer Fader, the one that does nothing, and I will be quiet.

G
The issue is that you want us to respect his "recording" opinions based on his mods. That makes very little sense. He likes to use clean fast preamps and dirty it up later. Great. Whatever works for him and you. But it's no more correct than my way. Even he mods gear for 100 years, he still doesn't get to decide the correct way to record with it for the rest of us.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #381
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
The reason, imho, is that there is no demand for the product, I think.

G
You think that there would be no demand for the original designed 1073, 1084 or 1081 directly from Rupert Neve?

What are you smoking?
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
The issue is that you want us to respect his "recording" opinions based on his mods. That makes very little sense. He likes to use clean fast preamps and dirty it up later. Great. Whatever works for him and you. But it's no more correct than my way. Even he mods gear for 100 years, he still doesn't get to decide the correct way to record with it for the rest of us.
Kenny,

I never said I want you to respect anything...if I did, please quote it, don't put words in my mouth, thanks.

I agree 100% with everything you say regarding our opinion and yours, and I do respect yours.

Right up until you say you won't listen to what he does to see if it is something that can be integrated into your bag of tricks.

Objectively, if I were a client, I would not work with a creative team that was
closed to new ideas and options to make my music sound better and open up new areas of the sound canvas for me.

G
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #383
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drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT




A respectful question Kenny.

I said - How many of Jim's mods have you heard????
You said - Zero.

Presented without comment.

G
I hate to break it to ya G, but that IS a comment. If you didn't want to comment, you should have just left it.

But I see you're more into making new friends here, so have at it.

I know Jim's work, I respect Jim's work, I enjoy Jim's work, I disagree with many of his concepts of "what is right" when it comes to gear (don't ask me for examples, it will only make him look like a fool), and I often like his candid humor. But I don't care for the way he comes of as a pompous ass about 80% of the time. He seems to have no problem with it, so "whatever" is my attitude. But don't expect everyone here to all bow down to his greatness. It's not going to happen when someone with stature treats others with demeaning condescension and disdain. Sound familiar to ya?

Oh and to Kenny's comment that there IS no discography with Jim Williams name on it....I think I'd have to agree. You wanna talk capacitors and high speed uber-clean chips, call Jim. You wanna talk music and how to create it with the greatest depth and emotion? Look elsewhere.

Sincerely,

just another one of the "weeds" in your life existence.....
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
You think that there would be no demand for the original designed 1073, 1084 or 1081 directly from Rupert Neve?

What are you smoking?
Dude, please, I live in Hawai'i, what do you think I am smoking?

G
Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #385
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1 Review written
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill ➡️
I hate to break it to ya G, but that IS a comment. If you didn't want to comment, you should have just left it.

But I see you're more into making new friends here, so have at it.

I know Jim's work, I respect Jim's work, I enjoy Jim's work, I disagree with many of his concepts of "what is right" when it comes to gear (don't ask me for examples, it will only make him look like a fool), and I often like his candid humor. But I don't care for the way he comes of as a pompous ass about 80% of the time. He seems to have no problem with it, so "whatever" is my attitude. But don't expect everyone here to all bow down to his greatness. It's not going to happen when someone with stature treats others with demeaning condescension and disdain. Sound familiar to ya?

Oh and to Kenny's comment that there IS no discography with Jim Williams name on it....I think I'd have to agree. You wanna talk capacitors and high speed uber-clean chips, call Jim. You wanna talk music and how to create it with the greatest depth and emotion? Look elsewhere.

Sincerely,

just another one of the "weeds" in your life existence.....
Doc,

Ha, found you...come home we miss you.

Yes, I know the non-comment was a comment.

Would like to know whether you agree that because of a perception of someone being an asshole - will stipulate that generically, not Jim specifically -
that you would decline to listen to their potential contribution to your work?

Which is what Psycho Monkey and Kenny are saying.

Simple yes or no question.

I am not telling them to believe what I do, that is a function for their research and nuanced thought. But to close yourself to it because of what someone typed is kind of silly, no?

G

...your very own weed..I am truly thankful for weeds like you
Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
My apologies if it came off that way but I'm saying quite the opposite. What works for me is just what works for me. I have never (to my memory) told someone that the way they make records is wrong and that their preamp choices are incorrect. My issue is with people who do.



I'm saying what I believe on a subjective subject.




We agree.



What am I ignoring? You asked me if I tried his mods and I said "No". It has absolutely nothing to do with his attitude. I just don't own anything that he mods. As far as I know. I don't base gear decisions based on my disagreements on GS. I am one of the most adamant forces against Ethan Winer's Myths yet I would buy his products in a heartbeat. A good product is still a good product.
cool, understood, sorry for the extreme tone, bet we agree on a lot of this

taking Jim's side as an advocate because I like chaos and disruption, makes for good music too

G
Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #387
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drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
Doc,

Ha, found you...come home we miss you.
Sorry, not gonna happen. It's not MY home. heh


Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
Would like to know whether you agree that because of a perception of someone being an asshole - will stipulate that generically, not Jim specifically -
that you would decline to listen to their potential contribution to your work?

Which is what Psycho Monkey and Kenny are saying.

Simple yes or no question.
Simple answer - no - I will not CHOOSE to work with them. Life is too short, and there are dozens, hundreds probably of GREAT designers / modders out there. I don't need the aggravation he brings. I don't need the belittling. I think MOST people don't want it - even if the advice is solid. Believe it or not, he is not the only fish in the gear-modding sea. Personally, I don't need someone who tells me to throw away my world class mics cause they are junk. I don't need someone to tell me what is right, and what is wrong. I get to make those decisions for me. Jim is not good at letting people find their own way. That is a non-positive experience for me. I have enough hands on, real world experience to make my own decisions.

I do not see any grammy's or oscars or gold / platinum records hanging on Jim's walls. So while I will listen to his advice about how to make something uber-squeeky clean, I will not listen to his advice about how to make music, or how to run the country. If I want color, dirt, politics, religion or anything else, I will look ELSEWHERE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
I am truly thankful for weeds like you
There you go again. Do you not see how that is or can be offensive to someone? Do you not see how you come off to other people? Maybe you are oblivious, but the PM's in my mail box lead me to believe you have a PR problem. Perhaps you and Jim are cut out of the same cloth. Either way, I have no time for your - or his - negativity in my life. Enjoy your weather....
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #388
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️
cool, understood, sorry for the extreme tone, bet we agree on a lot of this
I tend to agree with most people on a lot of things as I don't think that there's a best way to record anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNWT ➡️

taking Jim's side as an advocate because I like chaos and disruption, makes for good music too

G
Have to disagree here as Jim is no longer here (not a good thing) and you're defending an attitude that pushes people away from this forum. Not a good thing either.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #389
Audio X
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➡️
Jim is no longer here
Jim does still post on this forum and others.. just not so much in the BS threads..

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked by now..
I'm just sayin' cause I see some good threads get locked
but this thread is just people talkin ****.
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Old 18th January 2013 | Show parent
  #390
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio X ➡️
Jim does still post on this forum and others.. just not so much in the BS threads..
Shows how much I'm paying attention.

So I guess it's a win for all the people craving his words of wisdom.

Here's a sample from a Mastering thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
Mastering is useful.

How else can you turn a beautiful piece of music into an unlistenable piece of crap?
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