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Bands don't understand what I am offering...
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #211
Gear Head
 
Beatwulf's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is a really interesting post, one I'm sure many would benefit from reading. It's funny, I left a house engineer position at a studio a few years back due to internal "politics", not really thinking ahead as to what I would do for work. I had my own personal set-up that included the dreaded "002", an old allen&heath, standard mics and some 500 series pre's, all in my flat, and I kid you not I was booked 7days a week there. Purely due to the fact ( in my opinion) that it was comfortable, homely, I knew my gear well, pulled good sounds and we we're never "watching the clock". This, combined with lot's of networking and playing of my showreel saw me good for over a year until working and living in the same space got too much! I suppose what I'm saying is, I found a little niche and it had it's advantages. I didn't have the Neve console, £3000 mics and large recording space I could offer at the studio but do bands really care about that? I don't think so, I think they would rather be comfortable and trust who they are working with.

Just my opinion...
Old 15th October 2012 | Show parent
  #212
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➡️
The idea that a "band" can record themselves and it will sound better than a pro studio is coming from where??? I certainly have heard, as a mastering engineer, some amazing recordings done by people in their living rooms. I have also heard a lot of distorted, over effected, over compressed and over EQ'd material coming from someone in their living room. 99 times out of 100 when I get something from a pro studio it sounds GREAT and is ready for mastering. I have heard very very few recordings done in a pro studio that sound bad. That is why they are in business.

I guess the same people say the same thing on GS over and over again in a different forum. "I took my album to a "big name mastering engineer" and he did nothing for the music so I took it home and with T-RACKS I made it sound fantastic".

All I can say is BS....
I have heard records done in basements with good gear that sound better or comparable to professional studios, a good friend of mine had a number 1 single overseas recording that way. He has it professionally mastered by a third party. I didn't mean to imply that the entire process should be done independently, but certainley tracking can be done a lot of different ways. I didn't say it would work for everybody, I am pointing out that it has been done. Obviously a good studio will always sound better, but there aren't a lot of good studios in any one area, and very good studios and engineers cost a lot of money, rightfully so of course. Just saying that if you can only afford an average to modest studio it might turn out better to track independently. Relax a little bit buddy, and try to keep an open mind. Being narrow minded and short-sighted doesn't really translate well to musical creativity. This sort of attitude is why many musicians are reluctant to spend money working with you, uptight, arrogant, stubborn and closed-minded. You must be a pleasure to work with.
Old 15th October 2012 | Show parent
  #213
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly_Rogers ➡️
I Relax a little bit buddy, and try to keep an open mind. Being narrow minded and short-sighted doesn't really translate well to musical creativity. This sort of attitude is why many musicians are reluctant to spend money working with you, uptight, arrogant, stubborn and closed-minded. You must be a pleasure to work with.
You too!

I love to work with musicians, They are some of my best friends.

However I don't like to be asked to do professional work for nothing and it seems that is the way the world is headed.

I try very hard to work within peoples budgets but I have to make a living too and this constant..."I don't have any money to get my mastering done so could your do it for free or for $15.00 per hour" gets old very quickly. I also get tired of someone with a bunch of cracked plugins hanging out a sigh saying "mastering done here" when they know as much about mastering as I know about writing a symphony or doing brain surgery.

You don't personally know me so I would appreciate you not calling me out on things you know nothing about. Thanks in advance!!!
Old 15th October 2012 | Show parent
  #214
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I would do brain surgery for $15.00/hr, now of course there are no guarantees in the brain surgery business, as long as everyone understands that from the beginning, we're good to go, when would you like to schedule it?
Old 15th October 2012 | Show parent
  #215
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➡️
I would do brain surgery for $15.00/hr, now of course there are no guarantees in the brain surgery business, as long as everyone understands that from the beginning, we're good to go, when would you like to schedule it?
I will do it for $10 an hour plus, 15 points on the back end.
Old 15th October 2012
  #216
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Where I live there aren't any major studios or serious recording spaces; and if there were I'm sure they'd be pretty expensive.

How much would it cost to record a very serious demo ? 5k-10k? And that's also assuming you are able to dedicate all your time to it.

Most bands I know that are just starting out don't have the $$ or time to do that. Most work other jobs at least part time; or play in side cover bands; and can't just quit working to go dedicate a month to a solid album or even demo.

I'm assuming you guys are complaining about signed bands who have the time/$ to record in a studio but do it themselves instead? I can understand that gripe. I wish we had the $/time to pay to work with a very good producer and engineer in a nice studio but we don't. Not when I work 40 hours a week at a day job and have no studio in close proximity worth the investment.
Old 16th October 2012 | Show parent
  #217
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
I will do it for $10 an hour plus, 15 points on the back end.
Okay, wait, $5/hour, but I'll need it all up front...
Old 16th October 2012 | Show parent
  #218
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➡️
You too!

I love to work with musicians, They are some of my best friends.

However I don't like to be asked to do professional work for nothing and it seems that is the way the world is headed.

I try very hard to work within peoples budgets but I have to make a living too and this constant..."I don't have any money to get my mastering done so could your do it for free or for $15.00 per hour" gets old very quickly. I also get tired of someone with a bunch of cracked plugins hanging out a sigh saying "mastering done here" when they know as much about mastering as I know about writing a symphony or doing brain surgery.

You don't personally know me so I would appreciate you not calling me out on things you know nothing about. Thanks in advance!!!
At the same time the world works on who you know, favors for favors ! Totally counts as payment.

Reminds me of one Ahole friend who is a very good close friend. Ive done tons of things for him for years... Ill forgo the details, place to stay etc etc... I give him one, A favor, to do and he wonders why Im not going to pay him? Still scratching my head on that one... But he is way too far in his ego and too bitter sooo... I mean the dude would complain if I asked him to setup my guitar. Then I would have to say are you serious? Then go down the laundry list of everything Ive ever done for him as if he "forgot" Oh and the favor I asked of him? He lost it ! And its been a year! Total jerk who is lost in himself. Tries to avoid me so he doesnt have to pay me back what he lost ! Needless to say he has owed people money for years to where if he waits long enough he thinks he doesnt owe them anymore !

Anyway, rant over... Thank you and sorry for hijacking this.
Old 19th October 2012
  #219
Gear Maniac
 
smili's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
As an amateur who bought his own stuff to record his own music w/ friends - let me give you my perspective - it may be applicable to those you record.

- The creative process itself to me is more fun than the finished product.
- I liked being able to try to figure out this new song and the parts, and being able to have fun with it without having somebody waiting on me or looking over my shoulder.
- We'd often write on the fly in a dynamic environment - adding and changing parts as we learned the song. That was the fun part - not the finished product.
- there is something magic about hearing the song you wrote played out the first time or two in a band setting - and it seems it can't be recreated afterward. Maybe it's imaginary, but it seems the song changes character once you know it.
- I'm not the best musician. I've been to country demo sessions where they regularly nail the takes in 1 try without even hearing the whole song through once - I couldn't imagine playing with those guys and would be intimidated to try and play in such a professional environment. (I was at one demo where the entire band played the song wrong- but they played it perfectly wrong without a glitch - the chart was wrong! The only person thrown off was the songwriter who was singing scratch.)
- I actually kindof like tinkering with the tracks/mixes. The "learning how this is done" aspect might be fun to some. I've recently been in another band and I now realize more that I'm in the minority in this regard - many musicians I played with could care less about the recording process, the mix, etc - they like to perform - but some like me may try to do it on their own because they think it might be fun to try it and to learn it.
- Now that I've done it my way I understand my limitations much better - and I understand the importance of getting a song tight - learning your parts stone cold - and recording it perfectly. I absolutely can understand the problems with "fix it in the mix" and the huge learning curve involved, problems with room, noise, etc. If I was actually making money off of playing I know I'd hire somebody who knew what they were doing, and do all my prep work leading up wrt songwriting/arrangement/practice/etc. But I mention this because the creative process itself - not the performance of the song - is one of the things that I find most fun. I'm not just wanting to get the song recorded well - but I'm wanting to be creative while doing it. There are parts that I can play and include and play in a multitrack setting that I'd never be able to play with a basic 3 or 4 piece otherwise. Harmony guitar parts, vocals, background, etc. I don't know if there's a way to incorporate that into a studio's process - but I think that may be what some of the musicians who purchase DAWs and equipment are thinking about. And face it, many musicians aren't making a living on their music - they are doing it for themselves and because they like the creative process of it.

That said - if I was paying money for time a good recording space, non-intimidating environment, and someone who could record it well would be some of the higher ranked things I'd pay for. I agree with the others that the equipment would probably not be at top of my list - provided it sounded good. I've used some decent equipment and know that good equip can sound better (especially some good mics) - but also now know that real pros can make average equipment sound very good - so higher end equipment might be more of icing on the cake until I understood sonically what that really high end compressor might do for me. Someone mentioned creating a demonstration of the "your track on steriods" mix that uses the really good equipment. I guess until I hear it I don't understand it because I've never experienced it before.

Well, that's my $0.02. I'm probably not the target customer as I enjoy the creative process much more than the performance itself, but maybe this would give you some insight into what average, maybe not-so-confident musicians might be thinking when shopping for a studio.
Old 19th October 2012 | Show parent
  #220
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by smili ➡️
As an amateur who bought his own stuff to record his own music w/ friends - let me give you my perspective - it may be applicable to those you record.

- The creative process itself to me is more fun than the finished product.
there you have it in a nutshell

the OP is 'offering' his services to the wrong kind of bands

unfortunately the 'right' kind of bands are much harder to come by and there is more high-end competition for their business
Old 22nd October 2012 | Show parent
  #221
Gear Head
 
ironman187's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhysC ➡️
If I were a band, I'd find that website very off putting. To me, the bio comes across as kind of elitist and arrogant, and because of this I would find it intimidating. Plus, do you really need four photos of yourself on the front page?
I'm with you on that, it's too indepth. Keep it brief, highlight the accomplishments, and call it a day.

@ OP The soundcloud compilation shows that you have a unique sound. Could it be that the bands understand what you have to offer and feel it's not a good fit for them? I don't know about you, but I'm not going to run out and purchase an expensive guitar amp because many of the pros use it, and it gets tons of good reviews. I'm going to purchase the one that fits my sound the best, and that, I think, is where the smart bands are in regards to recording studios.
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