Quantcast
Bands don't understand what I am offering... - Page 7 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Bands don't understand what I am offering...
Old 4th October 2012
  #181
Lives for gear
 
aTelecine-Lex's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➑️
I remember! And I'm remembering cranking out carbon copies on a machine that had a roller and it grabbed up the sheets one by one, somehow, you kept spinning it and it would spew them out... and there was a semi-grotesque process where certain privileged teachers were allowed to primitively "etch-a-sketch" in some way visual copies from books and create these same purple-inky masters.

The light/dark contrasts in these last efforts was often quite poor, you'd end up with splotchy, barely legible mumbo-jumbo... for something like the text and stage directions to "A Midsummer Night's Dream" which was tiny, italicized fonts to start with... whatever else you can say, at least those days are behind us.
Joel,

Could you be taking about the "Ditto machine"? Or "Ditto Maker"?
:-)

Best,
Alexa
Old 4th October 2012
  #182
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I very much prefer bio sections written in first person. I think it provides a more personal (less detached?) sense of engagement with the potential client reading it. You would probably benefit some level of enthusiasm towards taking on new projects on your website rather than just stating what you've done. Even something like 'I would to discuss your project, contact me via....' makes the prospect of doing so much more inviting.

This is probably a more personal preference but I find myself a little put off by studio/engineer sites with an overwhelming black look... It often indicates that they are hard rock/metal orientated. This may reduce your potential market somewhat. Maybe try a cleaner white background?

These are my observations, hopefully you find them helpful
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #183
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aTelecine-Lex ➑️
Joel,

Could you be taking about the "Ditto machine"? Or "Ditto Maker"?
:-)

Best,
Alexa
Indeed I must! And of course in about 10 seconds of Googling I found someone (perhaps quite drunk) demonstrating this very machine...

Old 4th October 2012
  #184
Lives for gear
 
WinnyP's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mini logo ➑️
I very much prefer bio sections written in first person. I think it provides a more personal (less detached?) sense of engagement with the potential client reading it. You would probably benefit some level of enthusiasm towards taking on new projects on your website rather than just stating what you've done. Even something like 'I would to discuss your project, contact me via....' makes the prospect of doing so much more inviting.

This is probably a more personal preference but I find myself a little put off by studio/engineer sites with an overwhelming black look... It often indicates that they are hard rock/metal orientated. This may reduce your potential market somewhat. Maybe try a cleaner white background?

These are my observations, hopefully you find them helpful
Good point, removing the black background (in photoshop you can keep the current one but shift the black point up and add some colour tinting) and having less self pictures would make it look loads better.
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #185
Lives for gear
 
logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
WOW Great suggestions keep them coming. I am not a web/marketing person and lost my main web guy recently so I just put up some of my favorite pictures.

I have zero interest in putting these type of presentations together, it's not my strong suit. Putting a BIO together that accurately reflects a body of work without getting boring or clinical is just not my thing.

Short of a publicist anybody know a service that does solid BIO's?
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #186
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➑️
Indeed I must! And of course in about 10 seconds of Googling I found someone (perhaps quite drunk) demonstrating this very machine...

Yea that dudes at the very least sporting a heavy buzz ! Hysterical.
Old 5th October 2012
  #187
Lives for gear
 
DaveUK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You're still being two people in this thread ?? joe Haze and LogicII? ( maybe that's why your website is in the third person?) heh heh
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #188
Lives for gear
 
logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Waiting for Jules to respond.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #189
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicll ➑️
Waiting for Jules to respond.
That poor guy never gets a moment's rest...
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #190
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Ditto machines and memograph machines.

Dual personna like Batman and Bruce Wayne? Maybe your customers keep calling on the batphone while you're on the mansion phone.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #191
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➑️
That poor guy never gets a moment's rest...
.

heh

Hey, HE created the monster! We can blame everything on him! heh

Hope all's well with you, Joel!

.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #192
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➑️
Indeed I must! And of course in about 10 seconds of Googling I found someone (perhaps quite drunk) demonstrating this very machine...
he's not drunk, he's high on smelling the methylated spirits those things used as solvents

I remember certain kids huffing their quizzes when they came fresh off the ditto machine.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #193
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Ditto, man. The things you learn in school....
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #194
Gear Addict
 
monsieur x's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
So wait,

Joe, this is you with the problem, about how you can't get work?

. . .

First of all, no offense, but nothing you have on that site is appealing.

Not the pictures of you, the bio, definitely not the gear, none of it. . . the endorsements?

Honestly. . . you do not need a website unless you are a proper facility.

And don't put 'I worked with such and such guy who worked with a guy who worked with a guy who 12 years ago worked with NIN'

It is just sooo bloody lame. . .


The website is claustrophobic, I don't even know what to say.

If you don't mind, PM me an album you've recently done that you are proud of, and we can swap records.

From everything I see online about you, I see nothing I'd like to work with, but am so curious as to if you might actually make something good?

Oh, and another problem. . . you said you have a web guy? Dude, I have 3 or 4 people that I have to pay every month, real money to, do all of my stuff, and I don't call them 'my web guy' or whatever. You spent no money at all on that website. What the hell is a 'web guy'? I don't understand. . . jesus, that website screams no attention to detail and no taste. . . ugh.

I hope you appreciate my honesty,
Old 6th October 2012
  #195
Gear Addict
 
monsieur x's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Just saw this on your website:

[email protected]

What do you have to manage? What equity do you have? You can't have a manager without something to manage.

And if you do have a manager, they are horrible for letting you have that website. Imagine an A&R looking for a mixer for a project he is spearheading. You think he would give you work? Are you this crazy?

Dude, are you kidding?

You're going to have to evolve. . .
Old 6th October 2012
  #196
Lives for gear
 
CJ1973's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Getting back to the original thread posted by the Op, it's not just the Ferrari..it's the Driver, Track and Weather Conditions.
Why I say this is because it's about having a like-ability aspect and knowing what you are doing, selling yourself and your skills in a humble yet confident manner. Most folks have decent gear to do work, so these days it's about the personality and skill level of the producer or engineer.
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #197
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I moved from London to Brisbane and have had to get over myself a bit.
Even though I have worked full time in music since I left school and have a wealth of experience, I am not Rick Rubin or whatever, so people don't give a ****. The best thing I have done is to work a few nights a week at a venue.
This has enabled me to build a relationship with local musos where they can see that I know what I am doing and I am a nice guy.
So now my studio is nearly ready and I have people wanting to work with me.
I still have moments where my ego takes a battering,like doing monitors for outside engineers with too much ego and not enough talent and being the dogs body. But I suck it up and play along because I want to be known as a good guy to work with.
Setting up in a new town is tough,because you have to earn people's trust from scratch
I did try giving it the big I am when I got here,but it does turn people off
Old 6th October 2012
  #198
Lives for gear
 
CJ1973's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevbrowne ➑️
I moved from London to Brisbane
WHY? Lol
Old 6th October 2012 | Show parent
  #199
Lives for gear
 
logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Setting up in a new town is tough,because you have to earn people's trust from scratch
I did try giving it the big I am when I got here,but it does turn people off
Wise words sir thank you..
Old 7th October 2012 | Show parent
  #200
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Thanks
Why? Errrr not for the music that's for sure;-)
Worlds most livable city
Library music pays most of my bills and I can do that anywhere,so why not have a house in the tropics with a pool and fat studio,rather than a flat in London.
Better life for the kids mostly
Old 8th October 2012 | Show parent
  #201
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
What about all those pesky spiders crawling around?
Old 11th October 2012 | Show parent
  #202
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➑️
This is all guesswork-- but it's my best guesswork:

If the mind of some musicians had a proper overview of what they were doing, like if they could see themselves as a music fan on Mars might... and see not only the landscape, but the timescape, see their way past the CD release party... see how the wider public was responding to them, their final product, see the choke points and crucial moments of decision...

They would OBVIOUSLY get the best possible professional help at each critical stage-- fling themselves wholeheartedly into their job, the performing/cult of personality stuff, delegate the tech stuff to the feverish geniuses that do it so well (that's us!) and pursue the whole venture confidently and systematically.

No prayer of this ever happening. More likely, a grand and daring plan with enormous potential rewards (just the way buying a lottery ticket is daring, with a tremendous payoff.) It sure looks delusional from the outside, but buying gear that is also essentially BIG TOYS!, with the hope that it's easy to use and in itself somewhat guarantees a good result-- that's a seductive pitch, no mystery at all why people, hoping for the best, fall under its sway.
I see your point, but paying a so-called professional to record your band guarantees nothing either, except that you're out several grand regardless of the results. That is the problem with "professional" studios. They get paid regardless of how good or bad their work is. This is why bands are reluctant to dive into this sort of scenario. Oh, my work sucked? Well, book another two weeks at $50 an hour . . .

The fact of the matter is many bands buy their own gear and make recordings that sound better than what comes out of most "studios". Also, most studios are overpriced and overcharge, no arguing that. Although i respect good engineering and i do respect the profession and the time it takes to master the art, at the same time its not rocket science. Its not easy but it can be done. My friend went to recording school but his recordings don't sound any better than mine, they are actually worse and he has better gear. He makes up for it by having a huge ego and writing crap songs though. There are studios in town that produce worse recordings than i do at home on budget gear. Its not rocket science, set the levels, experiment with mic placement and compression, play the part well and you're off.
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #203
Lives for gear
 
Joe Haze's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I fully agree that many studio charge good money to hit record... I have bands tell me all the time how they had a bad experience at at studio. I prefer to produce the projects that I work on, I then oversee every aspect of the album making process. I charge a flat rate and take points on the back end. It's great for the artist, but not really profitable business.. (yet)
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #204
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Haze ➑️
I prefer to produce the projects that I work on, I then oversee every aspect of the album making process. I charge a flat rate and take points on the back end. It's great for the artist...
Well there's your problem.

Also, maybe it isn't the best thing for the artist if you're struggling to get business, and it would be arrogant to think that your 'production' is doing them a huge favour. It seems to me that most bands don't want an outsider who doesn't know how the band works to dictate how their recordings should sound (and rightfully so), they just want someone to press record and make it sound pretty.
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #205
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly_Rogers ➑️
I see your point, but paying a so-called professional to record your band guarantees nothing either, except that you're out several grand regardless of the results.... They get paid regardless of how good or bad their work is.....
It's really up to the band to inform themselves which studios are doing exceptional work and which ones are sleazing along as, essentially, con artists... it certainly happens, it's incomprehensible, but you're right, it goes on every day of the week. And weekends.
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #206
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhysC ➑️
Well there's your problem.

Also, maybe it isn't the best thing for the artist if you're struggling to get business, and it would be arrogant to think that your 'production' is doing them a huge favour. It seems to me that most bands don't want an outsider who doesn't know how the band works to dictate how their recordings should sound (and rightfully so), they just want someone to press record and make it sound pretty.
Indeed the entire premise of the thread hangs on a rather arrogant assumption: Namely that if bands only "understood" what he was offering they would of course gladly sign on.

I think it is entirely possible that the bands do understand completely what the OP is offering and are just not that into it. They may even be more turned off by the assumption than by the fact that they are ceding artistic control.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Haze
I charge a flat rate and take points on the back end.
If you are so confident of your abilities, drop your rate and take more on the back end. Charge no rate at all and take all your money on the back end.

Sounds dubious? Of course, because you can not 'guarantee' their 'success' any more than the hourly studios that are "ripping them off". The only differences are in how the payments are structured and your insistence on 'calling the shots', which apparently the bands are seeing as an ego trip on your part.

A successful artist/producer relationship requires the enthusiasm of the artist, not his mere acquiescence.
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #207
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly_Rogers ➑️
I see your point, but paying a so-called professional to record your band guarantees nothing either, except that you're out several grand regardless of the results. That is the problem with "professional" studios. They get paid regardless of how good or bad their work is. This is why bands are reluctant to dive into this sort of scenario. Oh, my work sucked? Well, book another two weeks at $50 an hour . . .

The fact of the matter is many bands buy their own gear and make recordings that sound better than what comes out of most "studios". Also, most studios are overpriced and overcharge, no arguing that. Although i respect good engineering and i do respect the profession and the time it takes to master the art, at the same time its not rocket science. Its not easy but it can be done. My friend went to recording school but his recordings don't sound any better than mine, they are actually worse and he has better gear. He makes up for it by having a huge ego and writing crap songs though. There are studios in town that produce worse recordings than i do at home on budget gear. Its not rocket science, set the levels, experiment with mic placement and compression, play the part well and you're off.
Maybe someone should start an "Angie's List" for recording studios.
Old 12th October 2012
  #208
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
I see your point, but paying a so-called professional to record your band guarantees nothing either, except that you're out several grand regardless of the results. That is the problem with "professional" studios. They get paid regardless of how good or bad their work is. This is why bands are reluctant to dive into this sort of scenario. Oh, my work sucked? Well, book another two weeks at $50 an hour . . .
I think that the problem for most bands is not so much that they're afraid that the studio's work will suck...it's that THEIR performances will suck. If you're dealing with professional studios, and not "professional" studios, you should be able to find a studio whose work you can trust. But there's no guaranteeing that your performances will be what you want, especially if you only have a certain amount of money to spend.

Quote:
The fact of the matter is many bands buy their own gear and make recordings that sound better than what comes out of most "studios".
That's certainly not a fact.

Of course, a band with someone with decent engineering skills, decent equipment, and decent players may well be able to turn out a better album than a band that goes into a "studio"...especially since they'll have the luxury of recording at their own pace, when they want, and how they want. But there are plenty of bands that buy their own gear that don't have the skills to do so. And there are plenty who do have good gear, and good skills, but who never get anything done because they have no limits as far as time, etc are concerned. It is a double-edged sword.

Quote:
Also, most studios are overpriced and overcharge, no arguing that.
Again...one certainly could argue that. What do you mean by "most" studios? If you mean the guy-in-his-garage-with-a-002 referenced so often in this thread, maybe. But there are so many good rooms with great gear whose rates are lower than they've ever been. That doesn't mean that they're cheap, and you may have to pay more for a good engineer...but why shouldn't you? And again, I'm talking about real professional engineers here...not simply guys who have gone to school, or who have put in what they think is the time necessary to call themselves an engineer.

Quote:
I charge a flat rate and take points on the back end.
Agreed...this thread would likely be several pages shorter had this been made clear up front.
Old 12th October 2012
  #209
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
The idea that a "band" can record themselves and it will sound better than a pro studio is coming from where??? I certainly have heard, as a mastering engineer, some amazing recordings done by people in their living rooms. I have also heard a lot of distorted, over effected, over compressed and over EQ'd material coming from someone in their living room. 99 times out of 100 when I get something from a pro studio it sounds GREAT and is ready for mastering. I have heard very very few recordings done in a pro studio that sound bad. That is why they are in business.

I guess the same people say the same thing on GS over and over again in a different forum. "I took my album to a "big name mastering engineer" and he did nothing for the music so I took it home and with T-RACKS I made it sound fantastic".

All I can say is BS....
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #210
Lives for gear
 
Joe Haze's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years

Last edited by Joe Haze; 12th October 2012 at 08:50 PM.. Reason: pointless..
πŸ“ Reply
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump