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Bands don't understand what I am offering...
Old 20th September 2012
  #31
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aTelecine-Lex's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John N ➑️
this is genius!
I have to second that :-)

Joel's the best...

Cheers,
Alexa
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #32
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logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Perhaps the room and the "studio" are more important than the gear, but the locals are not even responding to the quality of my work, not the production or the mixing! I guess people here only have the effort to do demos and call them albums.
Old 20th September 2012
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
"click" vibe isn't just your scene. It's here too, and I suspect in most scenes to some degree haha

You may have to find the best talent there and work for super cheap to get your name started somehow. If you have no way to start your name, work for nothing and get some popular locals into your place.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #34
7+1
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7+1's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You say you are new to the scene... Try these Few things....


-Invite the local paper to come to your studio and have them write up an article about who you are and what you are about...

-have an open house and invite every single band in the area and the competition to come..


if you are trying to get into a new scene and want to be the IT place you have to excel in advertisement. I know it sides crude but really its part of the business..

if you claim you are as good as you are... then the other studios should be pooping their pants when you invite them to your open house...

BEst of Luck!
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #35
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DaveE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicll ➑️
Hello, I do have a small attitude, but only behind closed doors (on here).
Bummer how quickly you glossed over Frank's comments. He is DEAD ON. Not sure if you remember me (the studio I interned at sold you your tape machine ) but yes I do remember the constant references to your solid track record. Although I asked multiple times, you never actually revealed any of the artists you worked with. If you take this same approach with bands, well then it's no surprise that they're not impressed. Even if they are impressed, your personality is going to have the biggest impact (yes possibly even more than your demo reel). It's also possible that your demo reel contains styles of music that your prospective clients just aren't into.

Are you still in the same city? If so, you might be somewhat mistaken about your surroundings. There are actually a TON of kickass home studios in that area that rival some of the finest studios I've seen. The ones I've been in are so discreet you'd never know they existed, but let's just say if you are still in the same city, there is LOTS of competition all over the place. Probably not so different from anywhere else.
Old 20th September 2012
  #36
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adrianww's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Having followed this thread with some interest to see where it ended up going, I will say that Frank's comments seem to be addressing an important point. To the OP - I'm sure you're not really like this at all (or, at least, I certainly hope you aren't) but you do come across in this thread as a bit of a legend in your own mind. If any hint of that comes through (in any way) in your interaction with bands and other folks in your local music scene, I can well imagine that most of them would run a mile from it. In most ventures, it's usually best to under-promise and over-deliver, rather than the other way around.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #37
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logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sorry guys I am not following...
Old 20th September 2012
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
eastsidetone's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I opened my studio one year ago and with that experience I have learned one thing.

Bands don't really care about gear.

It might come as a shock, but all that stuff that gets us drooling like tape, hardware, and mics does not really mean anything for someone who can't tell the difference between an mbox and neve strip.

With that being said; I have learned that bands care about environment and personality.

Clients don't come to me because of what gear I use (which is arguably all in the low end.)

I mostly get them because they heard I was nice guy who will really listen to them and I comfortable space to track in.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hey Bud

It's all about your Sales skills not your mixing skills if you want a high turnover of clients. Get on Amazon and buy a Sales book or two or if you know any friends who work in professional Sales get them to help you. Sales is a skill just like mixing. But the other thing is I know people who have made plenty of hit records with a 002 or whatever. Get them to come down to your Studio meet you bring their band references with them get to know them on a personal level
and make some Sales.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
eastsidetone's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicll ➑️
ok fair, but how the hell do I communicate what I have to offer and my discography without putting everybody off? Crap... In L.A it's expected that you have a gear and a solid track record nobody blinks..
I don't show or talk about other recordings I have made unless the band asks.

I explain that I want to make THEIR record, and ask for a lot of input. I find that this is great way to explain both what I have and can do.

Example:

Band: I love the big drums on this old 60's record!

Me: Cool, I can help you tune your kit to get closer to that sound. We can also use some of these ribbon mics since that was kind of popular in 60's.

In fact, I recently recorded a song with a similar sound.

Would you like to hear it?
Old 20th September 2012
  #41
6293
Guest
we can offer you the world's smallest violin, but something tells me you would just tell us how much better you could have played it had it been a Stradivarius.

You sound like a person who walks into a room wearing their heart and mind on their sleeve.
Open and exposed for all to see.
Problem being, you have a little hipster elitism in you.
YOU have done much bigger things than ANYONE in your town.
Me too homey......her name was wanda and she lived in Athens GA. Moonshines a (BIG BIG BIG) mothafukker.

You have to put the time in to the scene to get anything out of it. You can't just show up, throw your dick on the counter and say "ever seen something like that before?!"

cuz they have. it is not 1982. these people are not Podunk hill folk. At least I hope not for your sake........

that is a NYC or an LA attitude. Not the rest of America. Believe it or not (and I don't know your exact location) but in my travels across our great land I have found a small town stigma AGAINST big city engineers from LA or NYC to be quite prevalent. An attitude that could be attributed to both muso insecurity at the level of talent you have worked with, and the fact that you have seen the inside of rooms they see in magazines. But they only find these things out from YOU. As you sit across from them at a bar or restaurant/club. Kinda makes your statements suspect huh? They might be thinking "what did this guy do wrong that he isn't still in LA or NYC?".

Sit em down. Roll em a fat joint of mendocinos best. Dont tell em where it's from.
put on Minus the Bears "Highly Refined Pirates" and have a beer talking in your studio listening to the kickass monitoring system. DO NOT PRESSURE them in any way shape or form about recording or production. Enjoy being in the studio and listening to music, enjoy the opinions of the musicians! Just be cool man, don't shove your catalog down their throats and ease the name dropping into conversation. (that **** works on teenagers and Mooks mostly anyway......artists are artists man! keep the schmooze outta sight!)
Try something like this:
You: "Yeah Man I really like the guitar you were playing at your gig the other night! Sounded fantastic"
Them: "Oh?! You caught our show? You mean the Duo Jet with the sparkle orange paint job?!"
You: "yea man that thing really sings on that bluesy number with the hammond. Have you ever tried (insert your fav amp) with it? No? Well theres one next door, wanna Try it out? I'll play drums."
They try and love the tone, why? Cuz you are indulging them. You are taking an active interest in their tone while letting them drive the bus. Then you drop the names.....
You: "yeah I got that amp recording last year, the guitarist warren didn't like the PRS head he was sent so we went out and grabbed this guy at a local store"

Them: "uhhh Warren?"
You: "yeah warren haynes."

now you are the super cool soft spoken dude with the killer studio, killer weed and warren haynes as a first name buddy.
who wouldn't wanna come hang?
Good luck bro, keep reminding yourself why you started down the audio trail in the first place and let that passion bleed into everything you do!
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #42
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logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Great post! hahah
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Unfortunately, you gotta be a great salesman to get the work on top of being a great engineer to actually do the work when you get it. Some guys can naturally pour on the schmooz.....

That's why good salesmen make good livings, too. And I don't mean Joe Isuzu. I mean guys that are craftsmen at figuring out what the customer really wants and then showing them they have what the customer wants.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #44
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logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I guess it's not about reality, but perception. Marketing?
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Maniac
 
eastsidetone's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicll ➑️
Yes, I am very poor at selling myself. I don't understand or relate to the things bands respond to. I guess it's not about reality, but perception. Marketing?
I was going to offer you some more advice, but then after reading the rest of comments in your thread I decided to check out your other threads.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I smell a troll
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #46
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logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The whole point of this thread is to ask others if they have had similar experiences, while I do appreciate people taking the time to lend advice I fail to understand how people miss-understand me.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
There's a certain method to sales of asking the prospective customer questions to figure out what they want and what it is that has to be answered positively for them to buy. There are good books (and short, too) on the subject and there might be some local courses available to you.

A friend of mine who teaches sales says sales is a matter of sorting through the no's to find a yes. The primary obstacle is keeping your head up while you're going through all the no's to find the yes's.

It gets more complicated, but I suspect some studios probably have guys who are there to get the business and guys who are there to do the engineering. If you know someone that's gifted in sales, then another thought would be to see if you could work out some mutually beneficial deal with each other.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #48
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I've heard it said...

"A good salesman solves problems."
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Staying in a big city and being established... = good idea.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
ssaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicll ➑️
Bands don't understand what I am offering...
Perhaps you should change that to 'I don't understand what I'm selling'
Don't blame your customers...
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #51
Lives for gear
 
logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
How is that? Explain? I was hoping to get others thoughts/experience on this issue not take ****..
Old 21st September 2012
  #52
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
From a sales perspective, let's say your view is your service is a benefit because of A, B, and C. But if your customer thinks he is looking for D, E, and F, that's a problem in getting the customer to buy your service. So part of the sales process is for you to discover what the customer thinks/wants so that you can demonstrate that you've got what the customer really wants.

If you were selling a car to a man, you'd probably stress it's performance and looks I guess. If you were selling a car to a woman, you'd probably stress that it's reliable and in the color she wants. You may be talking about the same car, but the features you stress to a particular customer depend upon what that particular customer is looking for.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #53
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logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes, good points, but how does one balance everything these days?

We by expensive gear / Bands don't care about gear and want recording for 10-$20.00 an hour
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
The key is to look at it from your customer's viewpoint.

If I open up a tuxedo store in a community full of working farmers, how many tuxedos do you think I will sell? If I open up a store that sells work boots and overalls at reasonable prices, I'm nice to my customers, and I'm open when they want to shop, do you think I might do better?

Customers tend to be creatures of habit. If they are in the habit of calling all those other studios, your challenge is to figure out how to get them in the habit of calling you instead.

Now if the customers are all cheapsakes that only want to pay a few bucks for recording, are those the customers you want? Can you stay in business with only those customers?
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #55
Lives for gear
 
logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes, I see your point. The answer is defiantly NOT relying on the locals to provide "bread and butter work".

Trying to get people to try something new, interesting perspective... good point!
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #56
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicll ➑️
Yes, good points, but how does one balance everything these days?

We by expensive gear / Bands don't care about gear and want recording for 10-$20.00 an hour

We are professionals with track records
producing quality albums / Bands care about big names on their albums or working at a cheep studio with a no-name guy.

A.
Where is the balance for the guy who isn't CLA, but not the "local hack" either?

B.
How do others manage to justify major gear expenditures if it is potentially off putting to bands?

The point of my initial post is "look I am trying to offer my best that includes me, the gear ect..." so why the lack of interest??

I guess some people/studios market to a specific crowd... If I drop $300k on a vintage mic collection and a piano I will get a certain type of cliental..


I guess my point is...>> Where is the middle ground and how to others "make it" living in the middle...?

I do see others out there who have studios full of great gear that seem busy... I know here in this local "scene" one of the nicest studios just closed. I guess this market is saying.."Hey we don't value great rooms and gear enough to support this, but we love the half ass crap that guys in their garage do..
Generally speaking, if you're pitching yourself at low-end self funding bands, you don't really want to be spending on high end gear. You're NEVER going to convince these guys that it's worth spending decent amounts on their recordings - even the ones who make good livings will be reluctant.

Buy the gear if YOU want it, but only for that reason.

Likewise, these guys will always be satisfied with "cheap and cheerful". Cheap primarily - quality is a distant second. They'll always book less time than they need for a good recording, and you'll either have to lower your own standards, or put in extra time for no money to get it to a good standard.

The only solution I can see? Take yourself up a notch, to the serious self-funder/indie label level. These guys DO care about quality.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
If you own a recording studio or mastering studio today you are always going to get the "tire kickers' and people looking for the lowest possible rates. Your job as a business owner is to make your studio stand out in the crowd and have people want to come and use your services. The idea that just because you have better equipment than someone else and therefore bands and artist are going to switch to you is Non Sequitur.

Start by looking at how you present yourself to the world. Look at your operation from the vantage point of someone looking for a place to record. Why would they come to you? Does your advertising make you stand out in a crowded market place or do you just look like everyone else?

People will shell out a lot of money if they think the are getting the best for a reasonable outlay of cash. Does your advertising support this idea? Just to put up a list of equipment does not do much for getting new clients. Again equipment is only a very small part of the equation.

If you are not getting any business maybe you are in an over saturated market place with more recording studios than people who need their services. Turn to the web for additional clients or set up your studio to be the best overdub facility or the best vocal recording facility and don't just look for people who want to do complete recordings with you. Try to find a niche and fill that niche the best way you can.

From your answers to others I think you are basically fighting off the ideas that may make your studio profitable and fun to work in. You have to be able to absorb new ideas and act on them in order to be successful.

I had a graphic designer apply for a job here. He was a very nice person who had a career and was looking to start another one. He had a very nice portfolio but most of his ideas were from when he graduated from college in the 70s and not up to current standard of graphic design. He knows a lot about a lot of older software programs but again is not up on current software (he is still using a Mac G3). I am very sympathetic to his problems finding a job since I was in that exact same spot a couple of years ago. I was still stuck back in the "good olde days" and my clients were looking for someone to do their music mastering of today's music and not back when. I overcame my ways of doing things but it took me a while and I had to have some help from some very good friends and co workers.

I wish you luck and all the happiness you can get.

My only advice is "read and heed"
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #58
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logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Great couple of post, I will apply the advice to my situation.

While I currently have the infrastructure of a solid studio (gear, good cable, acoustic treatment) I don’t have a building yet. I can mix, track vocals and write, but I don’t have a setup that allows me to track a whole band.

I
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #59
Lives for gear
 
NEWTON IN ORBIT's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsidetone ➑️
I don't show or talk about other recordings I have made unless the band asks.

I explain that I want to make THEIR record, and ask for a lot of input. I find that this is great way to explain both what I have and can do.

Example:

Band: I love the big drums on this old 60's record!

Me: Cool, I can help you tune your kit to get closer to that sound. We can also use some of these ribbon mics since that was kind of popular in 60's.

In fact, I recently recorded a song with a similar sound.

Would you like to hear it?

This is wise. Very wise.

Some of the worst damage I have done actually, is when a band has asked while they are mid project: "Hey, what are other people recording here? Can we hear it?"

Sometimes, they are cool with it, sometimes the band that is requesting to hear it listens, and it becomes painfully obvious that other bands working out of the exact same studio, are just plain sounding better. Probably because they are just better at what they do.

This is a crappy realization, and ain't great for morale. On the other hand, it can also boost confidence that in the end their mix will sound as good as the material you are playing them.

I keep the chatter about other bands and gigs to a minimum if I can help it though. Always have.

The advice you give above eastsidetone, about keeping the focus on THE band in front of you, and no other, and devoting all of your present attention to them, is really good.

Besides all of this, most of the "locals" as the OP calls them, are here because they have already heard something I have done. They don't need me running my mouth off about old sh*t telling war stories from 1989. They don't need me (or even want me) playing a demo reel. At that point, it would probably just be construed as dick waving if I were to do that.

If they ask about something, I'll talk. Bands and musicians are very competitive though too, so you really have to watch what you say, when you say it. Most importantly...NEVER freaking gossip.

Anyways, great post eastside!
john
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #60
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logicll's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
WOW great stuff guys!
Quote:
If they ask about something, I'll talk. Bands and musicians are very competitive though too, so you really have to watch what you say, when you say it. Most importantly...NEVER freaking gossip.
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