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TV on the Radio…do they suck?
Old 15th February 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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rolo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by smalltownjon ➡️
I'm currently obsessed with this band. I absolutely love everything about them. I'm surprised at how many of you dislike them.
Surprised??? Really?
Old 15th February 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Smile

.
  • some people love them.
  • some people hate them.
  • some people like them.
  • some people dislike them.
  • some people are ambivalent about them.
  • some people don't know them.
  • some people don't know them personally.
  • some people like them on and off - mood depending.
  • some people could care less about them.
  • some people don't even like music at all.
  • some people with multi-personality disorder like them and dislike them simultaneously.
  • some people with multi-personality disorder like them and couldn't care less simultanesouly.
  • some people being framed by the FBI only pretend to like them, but really don't.
  • some people who are compulsive liars like them but you can't trust what they say.
  • some people can't communicate their feelings at all, so you'd never know what they like.
  • some people are speach-impaired, so it's harder to tell whether they like them.
  • some people get so much peer pressure from their friends to like them, that they've actually convinced themselves that they really like them, but way down deep inside they really don't.
  • some people like some of their material, but not all.
  • some people hate some of their material, but not all.
  • some people with multiple personality disorder like some of their material and hate most of their material simultaneously.
  • some people like them, but only in high-risk situations.
  • some people like them, but only when they're around other people who like them.
  • some people love to pretend that they hate them just to be cool, but meanwhile they live underwater, and they're planning on overthrowing the government.
  • some people thought they liked them, but then they realized it was another band.
  • some people communicate only in binary format, so unless you understand binary, you wouldn't know whether or not they like them.
  • some people are neurotic and change their minds every five minutes, and might like them some.
  • some people think they're funny.
  • some people think they're tall.
  • some people hate that they're so short and funny, but love their breath.
  • some people with bipolar paranoid delusional schizophrenia like them violently for a second, and then they all of the sudden shockingly believe they're peter pan on a hunting expedition.
  • some people who time-travel, like them only in the mesozoic era.
  • some people like them, but only in pairs of seven.
  • some people like them only when they're holding a frog.
  • some people who hear only frequencies between 250Hz and 325Hz like them in a very particular way we may never fully understand without actually bearing witness to their music through a replication of this frequency range.
  • some people like them only when played simultaneously with other bands' recordings.
  • some people told their aunt that they liked them, but told their cousin that they liked them.
  • some people like them only on rainy days.
  • some people love them when they're stuck on a ledge.
  • some people don't like the way they speak.
  • some people don't like what they eat.
  • some people love the way they dress.
  • some people think they're broke, but still try to cover up for them.
  • some people appreciate their geo-political affiliations.
  • some people just lie and lie and lie all the bloody time.
  • some people
  • some people, who communicate in the vegetable kingdom, are crazy.
there are billions of possible reasons why some people might like other people [or their art].

...and hopefully, i've helped to illustrate a few of these billions of reasons here for you...

...i can probably think of a few more qualifiers, if anyone's interested...?..

the moral of the story is:

..."If it sounds GOOD to YOU, it's bitchen; and if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's ****ty."
--zappa

.
Old 15th February 2009 | Show parent
  #33
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Kyle S's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
saw em live with bauhaus and NIN on 6/6/6. pretty good.
Old 16th February 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've never heard of them before this week. I missed the SNL performance. I saw them on Colbert, and thought they were pretty good, and I thought their '06 Letterman appearance was also pretty good. I found a copy of Dear Science, and so far I think it's alright. Not super-sharp, but interesting enough. Yeah, it has "studio band" written all over it.

The one thing I've found is that the few CD outlets we have left in my area (Best Buy, Barnes & Noble), didn't have their stuff in stock. Is it that hot, or was someone gambling they wouldn't sell and didn't stock it? And where is their management? After 3 major TV performances (Leno in November, SNL, Colbert), and all the press hype, it looks like they don't have any shows scheduled.

Gotta follow up on this stuff. Public attention fades fast. I don't think they have another 2 years to get their next album out. It's a neat CD, but these guys don't seem all that cohesive. Maybe they've got to figure out how to be a band, real fast.
Old 16th February 2009 | Show parent
  #35
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
After listening to their latest album, i gotta say I like it. Pretty creative. The horn arrangements strike me as the weakest link. A good horn arrangement can add a sense of structure to a meandering tune.

The few live performances I've seen don't come close to the enjoyment I get from the records.

I've been digging a lot of the newer bands. This is a great time in pop music.
Old 18th February 2009
  #36
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
TV on the Radio Sucks

They suck. I am at work right now and you know what we are talking about…how much TV on the Radio sucks. I have two songs by them. “Dancing Choose,” is just awful. I can’t make it all the way through the song because the vocals are grating, atrocious, and really annoying.

I really WANT to like this band. That’s what my friends say as well. Spin and Rolling Stone claims “Dear Science” is the best album of the year. People put them in the same league as Animal Collective, Arcade Fire, and Fleet Foxes. I am sorry, but they just are not in that league. They suck.

In an effort to test my theory I pulled my girlfriend away from her Joanna Newsome albums and made her listen to “Dancing Choose,” and “Lover’s Day.” One minute into “Dancing Choose” she demanded we listen to Sigur Ross instead. When I asked why, she said, “because this is horrible.” I said, “A-HA!” but Rolling Stone says this is the best album of the year!

The emperor is naked.

This band sucks.

This band sucks so bad, I joined this website for the sole purpose proclaiming how much they suck. I just have to get it off my chest! I have to let the world know.

This band sucks.
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slewis ➡️
This band sucks so bad, I joined this website for the sole purpose proclaiming how much they suck. I just have to get it off my chest! I have to let the world know.
Hahahahaha!
I think I am going to go buy a used copy of their CD at Amoeba just to give them a fair shake, I'm curious as all get out now... at least Amoeba will give me $1 for it if I hate it.
Old 19th February 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
smalltownjon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Well, I'm 23. The reason i find TVOTR so charming must be it's soul! I mean you've listened to it so i don't need to create a string of adjectives describing the band but, this band really gives me a sense of atmosphere. I get tingly and feel moved. I love return to cookie mountain's post apocalyptic lyrics and the newest album has an incredibly positive attitude while maintaining that dark soul pop I've come to know as TVOTR.

You were asking what other music I've loved in the past. Well...
David Bazan (pedro the lion, headphones)
Dr. Dog
Bon Iver
Animal Collective
Spoon
Cursive
The New Pornographers
Stars
Cocorosie
Fiona Apple
Daft Punk
Deerhoof
Justice
Murder by Death
31 Knots
Led Zeppelin
Elliot Smith
The Faint
Tin Hat Trio
Elton John
The Smiths
Modest Mouse
The Tiny
Leon Russell
The Mars Volta
Sublime
Fleet Foxes
The Go! Team
Smog
Feist
Rufus Wainwright
Sufjan Stevens
Tom Waits
NOFX
Iron & Wine
Sonic Youth
Small Brown Bike
Bright Eyes
Menomena
The Microphones
The Shins
Saul Williams
The RX Bandits

i don't know. the list goes on.
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #39
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rolo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE=smalltownjon;3930717]Well, I'm 23. The reason i find TVOTR so charming must be it's soul!

Soul????? Nah.... you have not heard soul until you hear...

Otis Redding
Teddy Pendergrass
Marvin Gaye
RAY FRIGGIN CHARLES
Steve Wonder

That's soul.... TV just has Good Intentions. I find no soul in what they do.
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #40
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GREENFENDR's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
this is my response to the original post.

A few years ago I saw them at Prospect Park for the free concert series. I had heard of them, but didn't know their music at all. the first couple bands were light sing along melodic pop stuff and I almost decided to leave. To say it quickly, I was absolutely floored by TVOTR. Live, They sounded as big and dynamic as I always imagined Pink Floyd to be. The singer seemed to have a great stage presence, giving 100% during the whole show.

I was excited the next day and Downloaded as much as I could find on them. I was extremely surprised that I just couldn't get into the albums. They were all older EP's and I heard that they were working on a full length. THAT album came out and I was also really unimpressed.

They have a unique sound, but I think they fall back on the wierd electronica, and over production instead of just rocking out. Give them a few more albums, the new one was closer to capturing them live, but the grooves felt so chopped up, and perfect that it seemed to steal any soul that was there in the first place...

here's a clip from that prospect park show:
bject>
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's hard to get beyond the camcorder sound of this clip. I've only seen them perform 2 songs on TV, which isn't enough to make a judgement on them as a live band. The playing wasn't bad...it just seemed flat and unexciting for some reason. The sound on SNL has been getting worse.

The more I hear the more I like. The drums on Let the Devil In remind me of Prince (Ballad of Dorothy Parker), dense but not overbearing. Really cool actually. The melody on Hours is excellent, just enough of chromaticism to suggest more sophisticated changes. Some of it is really boring though (Tonight, Snakes and Martyrs)
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
My question is this: If critics said that ANY artist deserved the praises that critics have said about this group, what would it do for them?

How many more listens would you give them to 'try' and like them?

How much would you talk and think about them with friends?

How much pressure would there be to get on board?
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #43
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
My question is this: If critics said that ANY artist deserved the praises that critics have said about this group, what would it do for them?

How many more listens would you give them to 'try' and like them?

How much would you talk and think about them with friends?

How much pressure would there be to get on board?
Put the bong down for a day or so. Then try to make sense.
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #44
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
My question is this: If critics said that ANY artist deserved the praises that critics have said about this group, what would it do for them?

How many more listens would you give them to 'try' and like them?

How much would you talk and think about them with friends?

How much pressure would there be to get on board?
Makes complete sense to me.

Whenever I have heard them I haven't really 'got' them, just found 'em awkward, disconnected and slightly pretentious - sometimes it's supposed to be cool to like bands...even if they suck. I will go listen some more before I make my absolute, unbending, complete and final decision on them forever.
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #45
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw ➡️
Makes complete sense to me.

Whenever have heard them I haven't really 'got' them, just found 'em awkward, disconnected and slightly pretentious - sometimes it's supposed to be cool to like bands...even if they suck. I will go listen some more before I make my absolute, unbending, complete and final decision on them forever.

I don't see any connection between what you are saying and lucey's comment. I'm not even sure what lucey is trying to say. He seems to be commenting on something other than the band per say.
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #46
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I was just commenting that I understood the gist of Lucey's points.

Sometimes a band's repitation precedes it because Industry buzz has created big noise to signal ratio, sort of Chicken Egg scenario - ie did anyone hear them and rate them before the industry music fashionistas set the hype train in motion...


I think I'm making this all more confusing now.

Maybe folks like them because they are hard to label and they appear unconventional and edgy-indie-pioneer-types?...



H

E

L

P



M

E


Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #47
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw ➡️
Maybe folks like them because they are hard to label and they appear unconventional and edgy-indie-pioneer-types?...
They are not that edgy or avant-garde. If I wanted to listen to something just for the sake of its weirdness there are many more radical options to choose from.

Or perhaps they made some cool music? I mean, they’re not the greatest thing ever, not even close. I listen to them because I like some of their music.

Maybe, just maybe, some people don’t like them because they don’t appeal to their personal taste. And perhaps there is room for having a category for art that is good but does not appeal to one’s taste. How many bands that achieve much success really suck? I mean objectively suck? I guess every now and then a band might sell some records and get a bunch of attention and actually suck…but it’s rare. I suspect some people struggle with the concepts of bad and personal taste. There’s plenty of music that I hate but I can’t really say that it sucks. Pour Some Sugar on Me, Natalie Merchant’s voice, Almost anything by a boy band, hair metal from the late 80's…I hate most of that but it doesn’t suck. Well, maybe the hair metal part...some of those guys could barley play their instruments.

Here is a band that sucks: YouTube - Worst Band Ever
Old 20th February 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
That's all well and good ... music is about taste.

But when the critics jump all over a band then there is more to talk about. Why did they do that? What do they see? Are these critics credible broadly, or just lemmings with a particular taste bias? Does this band fit the narrative of rock history that critics have been trying to control, and basically have, for 40 years?

Etc.

All good questions.
Old 21st February 2009 | Show parent
  #49
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Kyp's account.

- c
Old 21st February 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I love T.V. on the Radio. Their first E.P. is brilliant. I don't think there is anything out right now that sounds like them. They also have excellent lyrics which elude most current bands. When people ask me where the good music is these days I usually point to them.
Old 21st February 2009 | Show parent
  #51
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
That's all well and good ... music is about taste.

But when the critics jump all over a band then there is more to talk about. Why did they do that? What do they see? Are these critics credible broadly, or just lemmings with a particular taste bias? Does this band fit the narrative of rock history that critics have been trying to control, and basically have, for 40 years?

Etc.

All good questions.
Critics don't basically control the music industry. If that were the case then it would be quite rare to find a release that receives critical acclaim but has poor sales. Also, its perfectly OK to interact with other people about art, even if some of those people do so professionally.

I love art and really enjoy interacting with articulate and insightful commentary about art.
I love college football and enjoy interacting with articulate and insightful commentary about football.
I love philosophy and enjoy interacting with articulate and insightful commentary about philosophy.
I love economics...etc.

I think the lemmings are people who aren't able to contribute something intelligent to the dialogue, sit back and throw simpleton stones (not saying you are doing that). An opinion about music is only as credible its supporting argument. Anyone who takes a critic's opinion as "gospel" probably isn't able or willing to form their own credible opinion and reference critics as surrogate brains. So, the people to be leery of aren't the critics, but the lemmings.
Old 22nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumzealot ➡️
Critics don't basically control the music industry.
I never said they control the industry, they control a critical narrative, set of expectations, that we've been fed. They can help a lot, we are lemmings too, that's why PR budgets exist. At times critics like a commercial loser, but always for the same pool of reasons, the ones that further their narrative over 40 years. For example, people who can play really well are often cold and "pretentious" and DIY/amateur playing is often emotive and "cool", the sort of thing that we can take for granted as some kind of fact. Critics are often wannabe artists, who like in all forms of criticism have darlings, and have people who intimidate them they like to take down. And mostly they want to further the narrative that defines their professions.

To go against the narrative would be like a Washington journalist going against the narrative in their field. There is no personal power in that! But to go with the narrative builds the person and the profession.

I understand this may not make a lot of sense at first!
Old 22nd February 2009
  #53
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thermos's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumzealot ➡️
I’ve been digging around looking for current music that’s good. TV on the Radio has been getting a lot of positive press but I’m not sure what to make of them.
The album is pretty cool, although I’ve only listened to it 3 times, not enough to really say much.
Saw them on SNL last week and though it wasn’t very good.
So far my impression is that they are a group of very creative people who have a deep understanding of music but not much in the form of “talent”, I mean their ability to play and sing well. That’s not necessarily a bad thing in my book. The Velvet Underground might be described in the same way and me thinks the Velvets made some great music.
But does TV on the Radio?
I don't think talent has to coincide with being able to play your instrument well live. Playing your instrument well and making a creative and cool album are 2 completely different skills, both that take a lot of time and refinement. Yeah, they perform pretty poorly (mostly the drummer).

Personally, I like Cookie Mountain better than the new record. But some of Tunde's songs on the new record are great.
Old 22nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos ➡️
I don't think talent has to coincide with being able to play your instrument well live. Playing your instrument well and making a creative and cool album are 2 completely different skills, both that take a lot of time and refinement.
What are the elements that make these records creative and cool? I'm seriously asking because I'm having a hard time finding anything to latch onto.
Old 22nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #55
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thermos's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
What are the elements that make these records creative and cool? I'm seriously asking because I'm having a hard time finding anything to latch onto.
Well, I guess if you don't like them, you don't like them. I haven't heard a better song from a new major label band than "Tonight" off of Cookie Mountain. Tunde actually gives a s''t about lyrics, which already puts him leagues ahead of 99% of the writers out there.
Old 22nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos ➡️
Well, I guess if you don't like them, you don't like them. I haven't heard a better song from a new major label band than "Tonight" off of Cookie Mountain. Tunde actually gives a s''t about lyrics, which already puts him leagues ahead of 99% of the writers out there.
Cool I'll have a listen to that.

By "haven't heard a better song" do you mean mostly the lyrics, or also the "creative and cool" music you mentioned in the previous post? I look at like/dislike differently and can find something to 'like' in almost everything, professionally speaking. In this case I don't understand the heaping praises. The fact that they're NYU film students, mostly black but interracial ... and geeky ... those sound like things the coastal critics would like about them on paper, as that story perpetuates the progression of the critical narrative of a modern David Byrne/Heads ... but musically I'm not seeing anything special ... and I do want to. After two songs on SNL I'm looking for redemption for a lost 7 minutes!
Old 23rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #57
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
I never said they control the industry, they control a critical narrative, set of expectations, that we've been fed. They can help a lot, we are lemmings too, that's why PR budgets exist. At times critics like a commercial loser, but always for the same pool of reasons, the ones that further their narrative over 40 years. For example, people who can play really well are often cold and "pretentious" and DIY/amateur playing is often emotive and "cool", the sort of thing that we can take for granted as some kind of fact. Critics are often wannabe artists, who like in all forms of criticism have darlings, and have people who intimidate them they like to take down. And mostly they want to further the narrative that defines their professions.

To go against the narrative would be like a Washington journalist going against the narrative in their field. There is no personal power in that! But to go with the narrative builds the person and the profession.

I understand this may not make a lot of sense at first!
Seems like you've handed over way too much power to other people. I am not willing top let other people’s opinions determine my own.

Lemmings are creatures that follow their collective instincts to their demise. We think of lemmings as weak and impotent fvcks. You are no lemming. I’m certainly no lemming. I am, however, influenced by others to my edification and I welcome the learning experience. Entering a dialogue about art (or anything else) is a way to lift our perceptive, not contribute to its demise. To eschew influence is to champion ignorance. We have minds and wills and are able to assess the information we encounter. We are not solely the product of our surroundings. Everyone has a bias, but that does not make us lemmings. That is a grotesque over-simplification and a surrender to impotence. To expect someone to express an unbiased opinion about art to ask them to not say anything. Of course opinions are biased. That's why we have to think about the things we hear.

If people who play really well are often cold and pretentious then I wonder how you define good playing. I've always thought of good players as those who communicate on an emotional level. I can think of a long list of musicians who can play the snot out of anything you put in front of them, exhibiting great technical prowess, that play with immense emotion and ooze cool...whatever that is. These are all people who worked their way to greatness, the very definition of DIY.
Old 23rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #58
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thermos's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey ➡️
Cool I'll have a listen to that.

By "haven't heard a better song" do you mean mostly the lyrics, or also the "creative and cool" music you mentioned in the previous post? I look at like/dislike differently and can find something to 'like' in almost everything, professionally speaking. In this case I don't understand the heaping praises. The fact that they're NYU film students, mostly black but interracial ... and geeky ... those sound like things the coastal critics would like about them on paper, as that story perpetuates the progression of the critical narrative of a modern David Byrne/Heads ... but musically I'm not seeing anything special ... and I do want to. After two songs on SNL I'm looking for redemption for a lost 7 minutes!
For most of the songs I like of theirs (mostly Tunde's songs), I feel they are just good songs that are written well and produced well, and I would put on because I like them. I admire the production aspects, but mostly the songs are what I enjoy. Production alone can rarely get me to listen to an album more than once, but I feel they have both.

Anyway, they aren't the greatest band ever or anything. To me they are a genuinely good band that happened to slip through the cracks and get popular. Any good band that does that is immediately met with insane criticism. Imagine how different it would be if more popular bands were actually good.

And I saw them on Colbert, and also at the Hollywood Bowl. Not a great live band. Super punk, but the songs are a little too nuanced to be performed like that unfortunately.
Old 23rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #59
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos ➡️
To me they are a genuinely good band that happened to slip through the cracks and get popular. Any good band that does that is immediately met with insane criticism. Imagine how different it would be if more popular bands were actually good.

And I saw them on Colbert, and also at the Hollywood Bowl. Not a great live band. Super punk, but the songs are a little too nuanced to be performed like that unfortunately.
Perfect analysis, thanks.
Old 26th February 2009 | Show parent
  #60
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It is true that TVOTR tend to perform live in a more reckless "punk" way than the studio records, which are considered and very carefully arranged/textured.

I think they (rightly? wrongly? everyone has a different perspective on this) assess that live performance is more about conveying energy and drama and impact than musical precision. Ideally one doesn't come at the expense of the other, but sometimes there is a trade-off.

TVOTR appeals to the same part of your heart that responds to the weirder corners of David Bowie's work. There are a lot of parallels, the hallucinatory drugginess, the sexiness, the intimations of debauchery, the fixation on being strikingly modern. The obsession with being relentlessly stylish and cool. I'm not talking about "Heroes" or "Let's Dance" or the famous radio singles, but the more avant-garde, weirdo, "difficult" stuff you find on the "Low" and "Lodger" records. And even (and maybe especially) the self-consciously "futuristic" stuff like "Black Tie White Noise" and "Earthling."

It's no surprise that Bowie himself has taken such a liking to TVOTR. He seems to have all but adopted them and become an unofficial advisor.

Taste is subjective and it's a weird position to be "lobbying" for the legitimacy of a band's music on the internet. I can't make you respect them, Lucey, but I do humbly and excitedly suggest that you check out the early Touch & Go recordings (which are rougher and more modest, but more pronouncedly eccentric) and then move through the sour apocalyptic vistas of "...Cookie Mountain" and onto the sweet sophistication of "Dear Science."

They're smart people, those guys. Reconsider. There's substance here, I think.

- c
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