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Bombfactory's new marketing plan
Old 9th March 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Bombfactory's new marketing plan

There is a new page on the Bombfactory website. I'll refrain from personal comment at this point, but I would like to know what others of you think of this. The link is HERE .

In a nutshell, the page is composed of edited sections of user's posts to the UAD-1 forum, and then reprinted on Erik's site. Many seem to be taken somewhat out of context, as evidenced by comments from some of the original posters in the UA Forum thread HERE.

The posts have been heavily edited to focus on any negative comments, and there is a decided lack of any consideration for the wealth of positive comments and praise to be found in the UAD-1 forum.

As we all know, every public technical support forum on the net is a place for people who are having problems or unresolved issues to voice them and get help. Problems arise from a number of causes, legitimately equipment related as well as simple pilot error or Noob syndrome. Not a problem, that's why the forums exist. To help with problems as well as share tips, tricks and new ways to use this stuff.

AFAIK, this is the first time I've ever seen a developer dredge a public support forum for the most negative commentary, edit the posts to remove the non-negative sections, and then post that as a part of their own PR campaign.

So my question is, does this help or hurt the image and/or sales of BF in your opinion? Does it help or hurt UA?


Regards,
Brian T
Old 9th March 2003
  #2
Craneslut
 
Brad Blackwood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't use either and am not in the market for either, but I'll tell you this much: I would think twice about buying anything from a company who resorted to such tactics.

Very tacky, imo.

If your product can't stand on it's own legs without having to bash the competitor, what does that tell you?
Old 9th March 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Brian, I wouldn't have brought the subject here or in PSW myself, but as you did, I'll be happy to give my 0.02 cents.

First, I would not have done it to give publicity to BF after that move.
Cause there is not such thing as bad publicity.
So that would eventualy answer your question about wether or not UA would be affected.
As for BF, the problem is that this is a very unethical move.
I myself have been quoted out of context by Erik, and I don't like it at all as it does not reflect what I feel for that product (uad-1). I'm even wondering if this is all legal.
I don't feel any particular love or hate for either company, but I must say that kind of propaganda does not give credibility to BF in general, and Erik in particular. I'm aware that BF has been victim from UA publicity, but this is even more unacceptable.

IMFHO etc ...

malice
Old 9th March 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Erik,

since I posted my problems, I had direct support from UAD-1, and the card is now fully working.

Don't turn this thread into a UAD-1/BF war again.

The subject is about your idea of quoting a competitor forum that, of course, will show some technical issues.

I did have problems with my card, I do find that it has been long since they actually help me solved it, but what you show in your own site does not reflect what I think of it, as well as the majority of the users thinks of it.

The issue is you acting in an unethical way.

The reality is that you should let the customers chose between BF and UA.
If your bundle is so far better, you will win.

This move won't bring people to your shop, IMHO

This forum (UAD-1) could act like the DUC, banning every poster that asks an embarassing question, deleting every bothering thread.
That is not the case. And I can tell you a lot off the posters you quote are pissed by what you did. I suppose you thought about the legal aspects, so I don't worry for you. Still THIS is rather new in the marketing process of Pro audio gear.


btw, quoting me in this very forum about a problem I had with my UAD-1, is totaly off topic, as it is not related to the subject wich is about your idea of marketing. It is another way for you to make a public rant about a competitor product. So to my eyes, it is a clear case of spaming


I don't say you shouldn't defend yourself from accusations, but you should do it without refering to another lame pissing contest between your product and UA product.

malice
Old 9th March 2003
  #5
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by bombguy

Have they solved this for you?
No, not that one. I must say it is not one of my favorite of the bundle. It is not that it is bad, but it surely has a roll of problem. That's for a quick review.

Those were the two problems I had (don't let us thing I had more, I didn't)

1 - pultec roll off : unsolved
2 - exporting two buss mixes (IT WAS WORKING IN REAL TIME). Now this one is solved, NO MORE PROBLEM.


For the rest, the plugs are great, the comps are better than yours, the Cambridge demo is very promissing, the nigel is great. That is my opinion, and now, I won't discuss with you, I gave my thoughts about your lame propaganda, and you kept acting like an asshole.

STILL YOU DID NOT TELL US ABOUT WHAT THE HELL YOU HAD IN MIND WHEN YOU DID SUCH AN UNETHICAL MOVE BY QUOTING A COMPETITOR USERS FORUM ...

malice
Old 10th March 2003
  #6
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by bombguy
I spend a lot of time in forums; I've never seen anything as bad as the complaints about the UAD-1.
i find it hard to believe you never take a look at yourself in the mirror. i think you take the cake for the biggest ass of the century.
Old 10th March 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 
h4nc0's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
There are many with problems with UAD-1, but you should've realized that there are many more people without problem. You make it sound like UAD-1 in general is full of problems, which is wrong.
Old 10th March 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I'm quite certain I can find, and in fact have participated in, support forums with a higher proportion of negative comments than UA. No question in my mind about that, including specific products from Emagic, Tascam, Steinberg, MSI, Abit, and I suppose the list could go on. These forums tend to ebb and flow from cold to hot and back over time.

It seems to me that the prime requirement for Erik's hall of shame is not the ratio of positive vs negative posts on one's forum. Plenty of raw material for making sport of forums if that's what turns you on. Try Cubase.net for a good time.

No, it seems that the prime requirement is to be a competitor of Bombfactory who has successfully sold thousands of units of your plugins and not been victimized by piracy because of a different approach, based on hardware.

In any event, I do not believe the idea of vilifying your competitor by "borrowing" and then editorialising posts from their support forum is a productive idea for anyone involved. It does not presents an image that will attract new customers to BF. Quite the opposite is likely, IMO.

Time will tell. Either way, I'm happy to live in a free country where such antics are a person's right, though I may find them tasteless.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th March 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
I think you're the classic example of the complacent UAD-1 user, Malice. It didn't work for a couple months and they lied about the Pultec, no biggie I guess.
That statement is quiet idiotic. As I said, only the exporting was causing problems from time to time. In real time, I had no problem. Now about that Pultec, it is very good for certain applications as it is. Some of the owners even wish that a new version of the pultec with a corrected roll off problem should be a Pultec II, as they like this one as it is.

Well, I will explain to you why I'm not complacent. I just bought the card cause I didn't wanted to change my mac already, as I was waiting a bit to see about that OS9/OSX and eventualy G5, or even switching to PC. So as I was lacking a bit of power, I wanted to try either the Powercore and the UAD-1. I try that one, and was happily surprised with the sound of the pluggins (exept for the pultec and the reverb). It was really for me a matter of giving me more time before changing the computer, that's all.
Now that I've tried thoses, and had a peek at the cambridge eq, and to the new TC reverb, I would try to get a powercore too, as I like the concept, and I think it is a viable alternative to ProTools that I don't like.
If the system is still stable now that I had a help from UA, I might even buy another card.

I don't feel I'm complacent because I like the product. The price I paid for it is ridiculous if you put it in perspective with the money I spent this year for gear. And if I felt I was not getting a great value for money, I would have return it. I did not, even when I had problems, cause still I liked the sound of it, despite of the pain in the ass I got with the export problems.
Now that it is fully working, why the hell I would find it crappy ???

Mark my words, I still don't buy their excuses for the Pultec, but it is the only plugin that is not doing what it is suppose to do. As I didn't buy the card for it, I won't make a fuzz about it, although I'm quiet certain the problem will be solved eventualy.

Now instead of spending an insane amount of time collecting moaning infos on the competitor's forum, you should consider doing something usefull for your company . I give you some clues :

- not being such an asshole. You might get the sympathy of some users that for the moment wouldn't even think of trying your products because they don't like the way you act.

- trying to make vst versions. I'm sure, contrary of what you are saying, that not more piracy would result from VST than from RTAS, TDM, or MOTU. If you sustain this argument, I would linvite you to :

- not taking people for dumbass because they have different opinions than you.

- trying to build the reputation of your company on the quality of your line, instead of competion bashing.

- and finaly, only if you disregard all of the above, resign from your position, that would be the best you can do for your company

I'm done with you Erik

Good day, you have work to do, and I have too

malice
Old 10th March 2003
  #10
Hmmmmm

"and I can't believe that you think it's 'unethical' that I raise the red flag on this behavior. --Erik"

Well it's a 'syle' thing I suppose. Here's a good phrase that might suit.

You can attract more bees with honey than you can with vinegar..
Old 10th March 2003
  #11
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Consumed by Anger, bitterness

How does that bitterness taste Eric?
Good for breakfast?

Even people who use hardware only are starting to take notice of your unfortunate behavior.

How is your foot? Try not to shoot the other one now.
Not that I care mind you, I like having you and your products around so UA at least has a "standard" to improve on.
Oh yea, they have already done that...

So long Eric...
Old 10th March 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Welcome to the forum Knobs...


This thread makes me wonder, if say, Dave Hill at Crane Song, or Colin McDowell at McDsp were considered ayeholes, would people stop buying or using their products?
Old 10th March 2003
  #13
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue

This thread makes me wonder, if say, Dave Hill at Crane Song, or Colin McDowell at McDsp were considered ayeholes, would people stop buying or using their products?
At least some folks would - I can think of products from a couple of designers that I have no interest in even trying. And the converse is also true - I'll try to send business to a couple of designers because they're good people in addition to the fact that they make good gear.

But that's true in life, not just audio. There are restaurants, studios, bookstores, and other businesses in town that I have no desire to patronize, because I don't care to spend money with the people either working at or running the place.
Old 10th March 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
Welcome to the forum Knobs...


This thread makes me wonder, if say, Dave Hill at Crane Song, or Colin McDowell at McDsp were considered ayeholes, would people stop buying or using their products?

Well, I would say that the beauty of it is, we'll never have to find that out. I believe Erik's behaviour has already been a bit more "controversial" than either of those gentlemen are capable of, even if they started today and worked hard to catch up.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th March 2003
  #15
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
"Welcome to the forum Knobs..."

Thanks E-Cue.


"This thread makes me wonder, if say, Dave Hill at Crane Song, or Colin McDowell at McDsp were considered ayeholes, would people stop buying or using their products?"

Well Crane Song has a good reputation for making quality products. With hardware there are fewer choices when you are after a certain quality or character of sound. Nothing else will do period. This might allow for the owners to display a certain amount of assholishness and still maintain market share.
With software there are endless choices for the consumer.
Too many choices perhaps. Consumers can easily be put off and simply go to the competitor's product.

Something is seriously wrong when EVERY forum I visit has a thread or two about Eric and his less than "pro" behavior.

He has reached rock bottom with this move in my opinion.
Quoting folks out of context without their permission.

UAD-1 is for VST and just recently DX. They just announced plugs for protools a few months back. Why does he feel the need to bash a company that is just entering his shrinking corner of the Universe?

I can smell fear from miles away and this just reeks.
Old 10th March 2003
  #16
Here for the gear
 
verticalplunge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'd like to take exception to the claim: "I spend a lot of time in forums; I've never seen anything as bad as the complaints about the UAD-1."

First of all, I've never seen so many compliments for a product on a forum either, "Dude, my UAD rocks!" comprises perhpas a third of all the posts at the forum. There are plenty of negative complaints too--but that's what you do at such forums: seek help. So the fact that you see as much praise that you do is more noteworthy.

But more importantly, the forum from which BF lifted the quotes is run independently from UA. What that means is one, folks let off steam in a slightly different way than they would if they were asking the company in question for help, and secondly, none of the posts are ever censored--try posting something negative at digidesign or Apple and see how long it lasts.

I'm just trying to figure out if these kinds of stances are thought out in advance or if they reflect the lack of any thought whatsoever. Not only does Erik come across as very disengenuous, he also appears to be very dense.

I don't care if a BF turned my audio into sonic gold, I would NEVER buy anything from BF. I actually discovered the UA nonsense when I visited their site to purchase a Fairchild plug. Needless to say, their marketing material had an effect quite opposite to that intended.
Old 11th March 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Before I forget. One more item.

The actual majority of the quotes on the BF page concern the recently released UAD-1 3.00 and 3.01 drivers. 3.00 was released as a public beta and 3.01 was not even supposed to be public yet when some enterprising users found it on the UA website.

UA has been very cool about many things, and assuming their users have the intelligence and discression to decide whether or not to install beta drivers is one thing that I find refreshing. It allows advanced users who know their way around a computer to give it a whirl.

The downside is that some users don't seem to understand what the word beta means, with the resultant panic when there are issues. 3.00 was released as a public beta and 3.01 appeared within about a week, correcting issues turned up by 3.00.

Many of the posts quoted eminate from that period of time. A public beta release. Convenient timing for a negative campaign.

OTOH, I suppose that an attempt to consolidate and edit all the negative posts on the internet about BF and it's proprietor would be on par, as far as effort required, with translating the Bible into Swahili.

Yeah, I think those two jobs would likely take about the same amount of time.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 11th March 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Ruphus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
Welcome to the forum Knobs...


This thread makes me wonder, if say, Dave Hill at Crane Song, or Colin McDowell at McDsp were considered ayeholes, would people stop buying or using their products?
No, it won´t stop customers. It proved already with Steinberg who grew to the biggest audio software supplier by selling the crap no.1 in the whole biz. No other software was ( and still is as far as I hear ) that unfinished and unstable like theirs while their support is worst of all, not to speak of unique politics of greediness and insufficient info / manuals in order to curl folks into additional spendings for VST classes ...
- and consumers still went to buy it on and on.

BTW, I appreciate Eric for his backbone and honesty in general which I havn´t seen thelike before in the business area. But customers don´t understand, they perfere to be flattered and competitors to be peaceful and secret with each other while keeping margins.

I have seen Erik much more understandable when he explains himself like he once did on the Mac section of the DUC. Some of those who read that even apologized then for having cursed at him before.

Maybe you should read that too. First sight isn´t always revealing the whole thing.

Ruphus

PS: Erik, should you see this. I once send you a question about preferable DIs. Never received an answer. Not your task I know. Found out the answer myself. Thanx. grggt
Old 12th March 2003
  #19
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Erik

Quote:
My goal was to provide information and spur debate.
your Goal was nothing of the sort and you know it.

If I was UAD, I would have a lawsuit slapped across your desk in 2 seconds flat for slander, and potential damage to my company image and not to forget potential loss in revenue. Off the top of my head I would say $50,000 should cover the damage you have caused............... I´m certain btw what you have done is illegal.

Erik, you know I find you a charlatan, always have, and always will. But, for the good of your company and any staff that you have working under you. Its time you acted like a business man to protect the livelihoods of staff that you may have, and even your own.

I suspect your company is in trouble (and I dont say this with glee, I know how stressfull it can be running a business). This can be the only reason for your actions. It wont work Erik, and if you are in truble try expelling your energies in to much more productive avenues that may save your business.

A happy MD does not act the way you do.
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