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F'in film crew
Old 19th December 2002
  #1
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
F'in film crew

Seriously, the band I'm recording right now told me that a friend was going to stop by with a camera to shoot some video and they wanted to know if it would be ok. Of course I said yes. He showed up today at 6 with a pair of huge pro video cameras, 3/4" VCR's and big ****in' PAR cans. We had been making good progess all day, got 3 songs down (drums, bass) without a problem in a few takes on each. Cameras show up and it disrupts us for an hour and a half while he sets up the **** and gets the lights together. He also tried to run 9 extension cables under the door into the live room. Nu uh, not gonna happen cause I can't close the door.

In a nutshell, we got nothing done. The band beat the song (which should've been easy) into the ground. The rehearsal take which wasn't being taped was the best one. It wasn't being taped because video guy was trying to get audio going and I got a ground loop when I gave him the console feed. So, I called it a night at 9:20 after at least 20 takes with nothing to show for it. Moral of story, no more video crews in my studio. No exceptions.
Old 19th December 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Jay . . . Can relate . . . . had that happen too many times! No more.
I love the way the bands always says it like . . . . "a friend MIGHT stop by to shoot a little video at some point tonight".

Bull**** on that! Then everyone starts "acting". I hate that ****! Nothing worse then a musician that THINKS he is an actor . . . . MTV proves that, doesn't it?
Old 19th December 2002
  #3
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I had a band whose guitar player was in grad school studying multi-media. He had a hand-held camera for most of the week. He documentary (which got him an A) is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. My favorite part is while he's "interviewing" me while I running mic cable the caption says "Tony SanFilippo--short guy." I love it!
Old 19th December 2002
  #4
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Next time, agree to it, then show up to the studio wearing a cod peice and some doc martins. Make it a total circus and have fun since you won't get crap done anyway. BTW, this is a great way to make sure no one steals your seat.
Old 20th December 2002
  #5
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
Bull**** on that! Then everyone starts "acting". I hate that ****! Nothing worse then a musician that THINKS he is an actor . . . . MTV proves that, doesn't it?
Oh yeah. The best part other then losing the best take (rehearsal) because of the camera crew was when I called the drummer out on cymbal bashing. I had been reminding him since we started on Saturday not too hit them too hard because he is a bit of a basher. Guess what, camera's go and and we're actually rolling 2" and he's banging the **** out of them. THAT was entertaining. Oh, that and camera guy set one of them up and it recorded 40 minutes of blue screen rather then 40 minutes of tracking. Slick.
grudge
Old 25th December 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Offer (and charge very handsomely for) your own video service on sessions. Noone will buy it but you get a polite way of refusing to let the cameras in...
Old 25th December 2014
  #7
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Henrik Hjortnaes's Avatar
12 years ago there were no GoPro's. So today, all the above problems are a non-issue - except the acting.
Old 25th December 2014
  #8
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
12 years? Holy thread resurrection Batman.

Now surely that's gotta be a record, no?

I mean Jay hasn't even posted here in, what, 10 years?

R.
Old 25th December 2014
  #9
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs ➑️
Seriously, the band I'm recording right now told me that a friend was going to stop by with a camera to shoot some video and they wanted to know if it would be ok. Of course I said yes. He showed up today at 6 with a pair of huge pro video cameras, 3/4" VCR's and big ****in' PAR cans. We had been making good progess all day, got 3 songs down (drums, bass) without a problem in a few takes on each. Cameras show up and it disrupts us for an hour and a half while he sets up the **** and gets the lights together. He also tried to run 9 extension cables under the door into the live room. Nu uh, not gonna happen cause I can't close the door.

In a nutshell, we got nothing done. The band beat the song (which should've been easy) into the ground. The rehearsal take which wasn't being taped was the best one. It wasn't being taped because video guy was trying to get audio going and I got a ground loop when I gave him the console feed. So, I called it a night at 9:20 after at least 20 takes with nothing to show for it. Moral of story, no more video crews in my studio. No exceptions.
I basically always charged by the hour. The more nonsense, the more money for me. I mean, I used some discretion, but basically, people paid for the time THEY used (and I ate down time from gear or tech F-ups -- not that I had any to speak of [cough]).
Old 26th December 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
morphtec's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedup ➑️
Offer (and charge very handsomely for) your own video service on sessions. Noone will buy it but you get a polite way of refusing to let the cameras in...
why did you bump a 12 year old thread? Boredom, alcohol ... ?
Old 26th December 2014
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Wow. The forum served me up a real piece of history as a recent thread. I didn't check the date...
Old 26th December 2014
  #12
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I've had similar experiences too, and more recently than 12 years ago!
Hate to say it, but kids make video because, well, they can't make music. (Obviously, only some, not all).
Video - point and shoot, play some "air guitar", look like a star, right?
Sorry to be so blunt, just IME, and IMHO.
It bothers me when it happens, regardless of the "extra hours, more $$$" philosophy.
I got into this to make music, for the love of music, and anything that interrupts the music = bad, in my book.
All just IMHO. Everyone is entitled to feel or act differently, as you wish.

BTW, I'm back on GS, obviously. For those of us who have devoted our entire lives to this wonderful, creative Art form, this is a nice forum, most of the time. Although with posts like this, some may wish I had stayed gone longer! I can dig that too. All the best in the coming year, to everybody.
Old 26th December 2014
  #13
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Hyder boy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Old thread or not, I've had several young bands shoot video during a session lately. Sad part is, the video was better than the music.
Old 26th December 2014 | Show parent
  #14
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Henrik Hjortnaes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva ➑️
BTW, I'm back on GS, obviously.
I appreciate that. Truly.
Old 26th December 2014 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedup ➑️
Wow. The forum served me up a real piece of history as a recent thread. I didn't check the date...
I didn't check the date, either -- even as I was listening to the incoming video gear list and thinking, WTF? Is this 1990? heh I see but I do not observe.

That said, my post about charging by the hour [prorated around and studio/staff downtime] does sort a lot of issues and, while rather prosaic is sort of, uh... timeless... so to speak.
Old 26th December 2014 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Old Goat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva ➑️
I got into this to make music, for the love of music, and anything that interrupts the music = bad, in my book.
Old 26th December 2014 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
celticrogues's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 ➑️
I didn't check the date, either -- even as I was listening to the incoming video gear list and thinking, WTF? Is this 1990? heh I see but I do not observe.
I did the exact same thing!

-Mike
Old 27th December 2014 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrik ➑️
I appreciate that. Truly.
kind of you. thanks.
Old 30th December 2014
  #19
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donsolo's Avatar
Cameras in the studio will always be a disruption. They should only come in on the last day, after everything that needs to get done is done.

We live in a reality today (maybe not in 2002, before youtube or internet video was really prevalent) where the primary distribution for most music is via video. Studio videos can look great. When it comes to whether or not a song/album achieves sales has a lot to do with whether there's a compelling music video to catch the audience's attention.

An extra 4 hours of tracking is likely to have less effect on the sales of the song than spending an extra 4 hours making a music video. Mixerman complained about cameras at one point during the diaries. In the end, more and more studios are offering their places as both recording and photography studios. For better or worse, these are the ones I foresee surviving this new market.
Old 30th December 2014 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo ➑️
In the end, more and more studios are offering their places as both recording and photography studios. For better or worse, these are the ones I foresee surviving this new market.
We are doing more and more video work. Our next investment will be in that direction. Sometimes it is an 'Unplugged' style of small concert, sometimes it is a wacky and off the wall video and our future plans involve film.

Old 30th December 2014 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
madgansound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva ➑️
I've had similar experiences too, and more recently than 12 years ago!
Hate to say it, but kids make video because, well, they can't make music. (Obviously, only some, not all).
Video - point and shoot, play some "air guitar", look like a star, right?
Sorry to be so blunt, just IME, and IMHO.
It bothers me when it happens, regardless of the "extra hours, more $$$" philosophy.
I got into this to make music, for the love of music, and anything that interrupts the music = bad, in my book.
All just IMHO. Everyone is entitled to feel or act differently, as you wish.

BTW, I'm back on GS, obviously. For those of us who have devoted our entire lives to this wonderful, creative Art form, this is a nice forum, most of the time. Although with posts like this, some may wish I had stayed gone longer! I can dig that too. All the best in the coming year, to everybody.
Side note: great to have you back. You're one of the small group I enjoy reading comments from on here
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Old 30th December 2014
  #22
LX3
Lives for gear
 
LX3's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Its interesting how much things have changed in video since 2002.

Nowadays, "video guys" are usually far more discreet. Cameras can be way smaller than ten years ago, and look great in low-light, meaning they can work with existing studio lighting. And as someone pointed out, you can add two or three GoPros or similar to get useful shots without another distracting camera operator.

Good film people do understand the need to fade into the background in these situations and will show up with only one or two operators and a couple of DSLRs at the most. Its usually amateur or student outfits that want to show off with huge amounts of people and kit.

Of course, if the band start acting up simply because there's a camera rolling, then you have a problem whether there are two camera guys or ten.

I'm talking about shooting documentary content. An actual promo video is a whole other thing... if they want to bring a ton of kit and do THAT in my studio, they're very welcome. But I wouldn't aim to record any music that day.
Old 30th December 2014 | Show parent
  #23
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgansound ➑️
Side note: great to have you back. You're one of the small group I enjoy reading comments from on here
Thank you brother for those very kind words. I will try to hold up my end of that bargain.
Old 30th December 2014 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LX3 ➑️

Of course, if the band start acting up simply because there's a camera rolling, then you have a problem whether there are two camera guys or ten.

I'm talking about shooting documentary content. An actual promo video is a whole other thing... if they want to bring a ton of kit and do THAT in my studio, they're very welcome. But I wouldn't aim to record any music that day.
Good post. However, IME it is nearly impossible for the band not to be "distracted" at the very least, knowing they are being filmed, if not to actually have some interaction with the "director" or whomever, etc. What I do is tell them, OK, we can take 30 minutes to shoot whatever you (the band) wants to shoot, then back to recording, not filming. Even that bugs me, but have to be a little flexible these days, as you say, everybody has a camera......also IME, the better musicians "get it", and even they don't want to be distracted..........there are some of course for whom the video is _as important as the music, or even more so......I don't know what to say about that.......I'm from an era when we were still drawing pictures on the walls of caves..........

Last edited by edva; 30th December 2014 at 04:37 PM.. Reason: bit more
Old 30th December 2014 | Show parent
  #25
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donsolo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva ➑️
Good post. However, IME it is nearly impossible for the band not to be "distracted" at the very least, knowing they are being filmed, if not to actually have some interaction with the "director" or whomever, etc. What I do is tell them, OK, we can take 30 minutes to shoot whatever you (the band) wants to shoot, then back to recording, not filming. Even that bugs me, but have to be a little flexible these days, as you say, everybody has a camera......also IME, the better musicians "get it", and even they don't want to be distracted..........there are some of course for whom the video is _as important as the music, or even more so......I don't know what to say about that.......I'm from an era when we were still drawing pictures on the walls of caves..........
If you're producing, that's totally your call. Most of the bands I have dealt with are self-producing which means they call the shots for better or worse.

Truth be told, having the cameras on is similar to what I call red-light fever. I tend to tense up once I know tape is rolling and the red "recording" light goes on. I've been known to go towards some pretty self-destructive behaviors to get my mind off of this fact. My last record was like that, and I'm very happy with most of the results. But some of the takes due to my altered state of mind were terrible. Ironically, some of the best takes I don't remember actually doing. I had to be pretty far gone to get to a point of zen to be able to execute.

Part of what's great about newer camera systems is how set-and-forget they can be. Throw up lights, cameras etc. The first takes will be tense, but if your camera will record 4 hours of material, you just let them run until everyone gets over their presence and then the magic happens.

Cameras in the studio are nothing new. There's studio footage of Paul Simon in South Africa, Pink Floyd at Abbey Road, etc etc etc. For better or worse, it's a necessary evil for promotion and documentation.
Old 30th December 2014 | Show parent
  #26
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo ➑️
If you're producing, that's totally your call. Most of the bands I have dealt with are self-producing which means they call the shots for better or worse.

Truth be told, having the cameras on is similar to what I call red-light fever.

Cameras in the studio are nothing new. There's studio footage of Paul Simon in South Africa, Pink Floyd at Abbey Road, etc etc etc. For better or worse, it's a necessary evil for promotion and documentation.
Good post. I will only add, part of their production decision is, do they want to work with me, under my (very lenient, but ultimately firm) "house rules". They are free to go elsewhere if they cross my "line" on a few things, this being one of them. That is their decision.

As a player, and also in other areas of skill-related activities, I have truly found it is far far better to "not think" when performing. Thinking _always_ deteriorates the performance. You only have the skill level you have, thinking will not suddenly make you better. It will however distract your mind to one degree or another. Practice is for thinking, performing, on either side of the glass, is for not thinking.

Yes, cameras have always been here. But there is a time and a place for everything, IMHO. YMMV of course.

Last edited by edva; 30th December 2014 at 05:18 PM.. Reason: bit more
Old 30th December 2014 | Show parent
  #27
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donsolo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva ➑️
Good post. I will only add, part of their production decision is, do they want to work with me, under my (very lenient, but ultimately firm) "house rules". They are free to go elsewhere if they cross my "line" on a few things, this being one of them. That is their decision.
theblue1 has a valid point albeit poorly phrased.

I've never viewed my role as the engineer as being that of a keeper of schedule. If a band wants my input, I'm happy to give it. When I'm producing, I run a pretty tight ship. Otherwise, I charge by the hour and give them plenty of rope to hang themselves.

If I'm being paid to listen to the lead singer's thoughts on the metaphysical properties of his new pair of jeans, I listen. If I'm being paid to watch a band attempt to make a music video, I watch. When a band is paying me by the hour, it is their decision to make as to how they wish to spend that time.

Now, if a band is self-producing and specifically asks for my input on how to save time, I'm happy to give it. I've developed what I call a take evaluation process that is much faster than someone would do on their own for example. If they ask for feedback on how to triage a session that's falling behind, I provide that feedback as well. theblue1 I'm pretty sure is the same way. We're not looking to screw people by setting up situations where they book more time, but we're not complaining when they do.

If I'm being paid by the hour, I don't view anything as a waste of my time. I do often view things as a waste of the band's time and money though. Sometimes I just have a different value system than the band. If they are comfortable with the take they just did and are happy to spend the rest of the day playing my nintendo, that's fine.

I see your perspective, though as almost all self-producing bands are doing so not because they want to, but because they can't afford a producer. In those cases, you're taking on a slightly different role where maybe you're not credited as a producer, but you're certainly taking on some of those functions at the request of the band. If you're charging a flat rate for example, this is essentially what you're doing. On top of that, you don't want the reputation as the studio that bands never complete projects in.
Old 30th December 2014 | Show parent
  #28
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edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo ➑️
theblue1 has a valid point albeit poorly phrased.

I've never viewed my role as the engineer as being that of a keeper of schedule.

.
Good post. I used to be more like you. However, I am old now, far more water has passed under my bridge than the amount I have left to me, just biological fact. I probably only have a couple of thousand days left, if that. I cannot waste time, mine at least. To do otherwise would be the height of foolishness, at my age. YMMV.
Old 31st December 2014 | Show parent
  #29
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Old Goat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva ➑️
Good post. I used to be more like you. However, I am old now, far more water has passed under my bridge than the amount I have left to me, just biological fact. I probably only have a couple of thousand days left, if that. I cannot waste time, mine at least. To do otherwise would be the height of foolishness, at my age. YMMV.
Very well put, my good man! There are more than a few of us in this boat. I don't have time to spend on crap. Or, as my dear mom put it, "Life's too short to waste on stupid people."
Old 31st December 2014 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Goat ➑️
Very well put, my good man! There are more than a few of us in this boat. I don't have time to spend on crap. Or, as my dear mom put it, "Life's too short to waste on stupid people."
Thanks bro. And hey, you sound like Willie, on a good day! Easily passes my highest bar, the "goosebump" test!
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