Quantcast
So Why Does Music Today Suck? - Page 10 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
So Why Does Music Today Suck?
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #271
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsmith ➑️
Musicianship. Plain and simple. The younger set just doesn't care. Some actually think the less musicianship the better. No respect for it. This is a generation of "guitar owners". When I was a pup, we would see someone who had been playing for a good long time, we wanted to know everything he could show us. Now when they see a real player, they run there mouths about some bull****. Here is a simple fact. Everyone in the world has a brain to be creative with and soul to have emotions from. What make a musician is a person who has some combination of skill, knowledge, and technique to take that emotional creativity and communicate via technology know as musical instruments. If you can't play what you here in your head, what exactly is it you are doing?
You're saying that young people (let's say aged 15 - 25) don't care about being good on an instrument? I say it's the contrary. I taught guitar in the 80's, and lots of kids wanted to achieve consumate musicianship. In the 90's I noticed a wane after Nirvana hit...in other words, after the Punk mentality of "screw musicianship" that originated in the late 70's, that Zappa complained about - once that mentality became overground instead of just underground, it was suddenly uncool to know theory and scales, even though bands like Sonic Youth and Nirvana (especially on In Utero) were doing interesting things harmonically and weren't just playing powerchords all the time. Anyway, in the 2000's, I'm sensing the pendulum swinging back around and kids want to have musicianship again. Sure, many of them are just playing fast for the sake of it and with no creativity or passion, but that's true of most musicians who don't play fast too. Always has been always will.

And regarding the idea of a lot of people owning guitars but not really knowing how to play....you could be talking just as easily about the folk movement in the 60's. How many of us inherited a guitar from a parent or uncle who hadn't touched it in 30 years? Granted, I don't think the GuitarCenter phenomenon existed back then, but it would have been close had the technology and manufacturing practices been what they are today.
Old 26th March 2008
  #272
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia ➑️

So Why Does Music Today Suck?

.
Too many close mics, too many tracks, too much editing, Too many choices, Too many pres etc. Excess at all stages of the game.


However, there is still lots of good music recorded today
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #273
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Have any of you who thinks music today sucks asked the current guest moderator why that's the case? You could say:

"Thanks for answering our questions. I hate your music and the music you produce. It really sucks. Why does it suck? Why do you and everybody, including myself, spend all this time and effort to make such shi77y music? Thanks! It's a real honor."
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #274
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock ➑️
Too many close mics, too many tracks, too much editing, Too many choices, Too many pres etc. Excess at all stages of the game.
People have been close-miking since at least the 50's! Lots of great great sounding music has been made with close-miking techniques. And people have been editing like crazy for just about ever.

And you think the best artists from the 60's would have sucked with more tracks? They only got better as more tracks were introduced, or at least it's generally accepted that they didn't get worse.

I do agree that beginners are better off with fewer resources in order to learn, but I don't agree that if all music new sucked (which it doesn't, that's ludicrous) it wouldn't be because people suddenly had more resources. A genius musician doesn't become a talentless idiot when you put 8 more tracks at their disposal.
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #275
Gear Addict
 
SaxJordan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Even if music sucks today, there is still enough great recorded music from the past that it would take a lifetime to absorb all of it. I know that I could listen to my favorite records over and over again forever. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter if there are no timeless classics coming out of 2008? **** 2008. We still have Bach and Coltrane and Elvis. The next really important artist might not have been born yet. We're way too greedy if we expect a steady stream of classic records that will change the world to come out every year.

And so what if the unwashed masses consume (and ever increasingly produce) audio vomit? Every metropolitan area in the world has a thriving arts scene if you take the effort to look for it.

And if the Beatles were some small local band and not cultural icons, would you still like their music? Do we really need platinum albums and big tours and media appearances and popularity and all that hype for music to be good, or does it stand on its own?

Great music can happen between two people. Music was originally invented by some guy in tights playing the lute for some fair maiden he wanted to lay. I don't get why having an audience of millions is requisite for considering something music (when we say music sucks, we're really talking about the music that's being heard by millions- why??) Anyone who thinks their life of musical turmoil and sacrifice and pain and triumph and joy and introspection and anger and pain entitles them to wide mainstream recognition and fame and fortune needs to check their motivation.

Artists will always produce art because they are artists and they have to, and those who are hip to it will pay attention. This hasn't changed and this will never change.

All of you older cats who are complaining, if you really care about your craft and high standards of artistry, go teach and share that with younger generations. You can't just blame society or schools or MTV. Sure, you might argue the kids don't want to learn because they're all up in their playstation and internet porn and antidepressants, but some of them might take to it if they have the exposure. Get em while they're young and they might actually learn some discipline and break the mold of their generation.

The final point I want to make in this ridiculous rant is that things can CHANGE, F A S T. I think the 90's died in 2007 and things are changing very rapidly right now. Things HAVE gone to **** and there's going to be a backlash. A new day is near, soon you're going to feel it in the air. Obama is going to be president, psychedelic drugs are going to make a comeback as people get sick of their mind-numbing prescription meds, metrosexual is dead and men are going to start wearing beards. People are going to turn off their computers and start interacting as humans were meant to. The hyper-perfection fad is going to end because its too stifling and hGH is just too damn expensive. Creativity will make a comeback as people are forced to live simpler lives. Conspicuous consumption is going to end because it has to; the words 'expectations management' are on the tongues of all of the ruling elites right now as the center of global economic power heads east. All of these changes are going to lead to turmoil and confusion and fear but also hope. It's going to be a time period that is absolutely ripe for fresh creative music that speaks to real issues and the struggle of a people to find their soul amidst this bogus cyber hell and inhumanity. There might not be the same media echo-chamber that made the Beatles what they were in their day, but this new music will happen. Rather than coming from a single source, it will come from every direction from hundreds of artists reacting to the same shifting zeitgeist in their own unique voice. Some will suck, some will be smokin, but the feeling will be unmistakable.
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #276
Lives for gear
 
47radAR's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I remember Michael Jackson saying that the state of the industry was exactly as it is now right before they released "Thriller". Then everything changed.

Perhaps the time is right for the next revolutionary project.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that there are many who would argue that things got worse after and including "Thriller"...
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #277
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsmith ➑️
****, now I am not going to get any work done!

But again, this supports my original contention. Musicianship. Benson exudes musicianship from every pore.
Yeah, but the real heavy musician there was McCoy Tyner.
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #278
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock ➑️
Oh i totally agree. I did not mean to be so matter of fact. Good music still exist and certainly close mic techniques were employed to a large degree by the Beatles and many others etc.

But some of todays music is lacking feel due to DAW trickery and excess recording overdubs cut paste etc simulations etc.

Not that its not effective in some cases but aligning music tracking to grids etc you know what I mean.

I would never take away the fact that talent exist - it does in large measure.

I wish the industry would just record the talent by letting them play without excess edits and un-natural sound.

Put up a few mics and let them go. there is a paradox in too many choices.
Right, well, bad music's been made forever of course, but I can't disagree with the notion that more bad music is being lifelessly realized in recorded form than any other time since the invention of recorded media. Just like there are more bad photos being taken now more than ever. Believe me, if it were possible to be a "photographic star" and become a millionaire with millions of worshipping fans, everybody in the country would be saying "what the hell, you never know?" and sending their crap camera-phone photos to galleries. As it stands, most people do it for other reasons that limit the competition (it's still competitive, but nothing like with music...persuing a visual art career is very expensive, too; shipping alone for a single photo solo show can run in the thousands, not to mention framing and paper et al....).

Still, a good musician is a good musician, regardless of tools (how few or how many). The reason there isn't ever much great music being made is because there aren't really that many truly gifted people in the world. If we're talking about the industry, or better-said, music that serves the interest of major corporations, yeah, they've found the most ubiquitous pleasure buttons and have streamlined a way to push them in as many people at once as repeatedly as possible. That's why they are collapsing. The fact that the corporate music industry is collapsing is a sign that people want substantial music, not empty ear candy, or better yet: they want both. They want to be able to choose. They don't want to be told what to listen to or what to like. The "music industry" is dying, but music itself is thriving more than ever. Good music is as strong and fragile as it ever was.
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #279
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwall ➑️
In the 90's I noticed a wane after Nirvana hit...in other words, after the Punk mentality of "screw musicianship" that originated in the late 70's, that Zappa complained about - once that mentality became overground instead of just underground, it was suddenly uncool to know theory and scales, even though bands like Sonic Youth and Nirvana (especially on In Utero) were doing interesting things harmonically and weren't just playing powerchords all the time.
What interesting harmonic things? We've been stepping backwards since the 50s.
Quote:
And regarding the idea of a lot of people owning guitars but not really knowing how to play....you could be talking just as easily about the folk movement in the 60's.
Not quite -- you had people who still played seriously and in great numbers, beyond the folk movement. I don't see that so much any more. The numbers are waning in big figures.

It's not that great art can't be created on computers sans real traditional musical instruments. It's that the ability to create music on traditional instruments using western musical language is disappearing. It's that the PROCESS of making music is changing and NOT for the better.

The process of playing from your soul - of spending years trying to make your BODY create a SOUND on an instrument; your lips or your fingers --, and to imagine that sound and use the language of music, learned through hard sweat earned from many failures and successes, to convey and communicate aesthetics and emotions and a world of ideas, --with your hands and breath, is disappearing. Now it's the programmers who are creating those sounds and creating algorithms for you to push buttons so you can imagine YOU ARE THE ONE creating it. Well, it's bull****. The ends can sound cool. There's some very nice music being created, but we're squeezing the life out of the musician. He's most often not the one making those sounds. The process is changing and not for the better.

A musician has always been the one who MAKES the music, which means he makes the sound by altering the physical properties of his/her instrument. Lengthening or shortening a string, a tube, a membrane and CAUSING that sound to fall, by force of will and creativity, on a specific, accurate and acute time stream called rhythm. He is physically causing it. And he is physically the one sending that sound, a communication as intimate as ones breath, words and the sound of ones voice, through space to an audience, however big or small it may be.

The digital age, completely ironic title, is about virtual numbers. Maybe this is the beast. We're sacrificing our soul for a screen of invisible numbers and losing our abilities all along the way.
Old 26th March 2008 | Show parent
  #280
11413
Guest
don't make sell you wouldnt buy yourself... its like the golden rule.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #281
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
IT DOESN"T

sure today the airwaves are filed with ****, what?you don't think there was crap on the airwaves in the 60s? while radio blows and major label releases blow, today there is great music everywhere. if you are not hearing it, then look elsewhere. with the internet, satellite radio etc.... there are more options than ever before. there is so much more to choose from. The old way is crumbling, and out of anarchy comes art. . keep an open mind and look around, there's a brave new world of music happening. the more the old industry crumbles, the better music gets because these asswipes no longer have the power to strangle off all the "different" music to further their agenda of humping the same lame song over and over again to see how many times rednecks at wal mart will fall for it. well, wal mart necks still fall for it every time but now at least those of us who give a rat's ass are given a place at the table, which was so rare before.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #282
Lives for gear
 
Stephen Bennett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There's lots of great music around - and it's a lot more easily accessible than 'in the day' when you had to undergo the glare of some record shop pretentious t&*t who was judging your requests for what over-worn album to listen on on those bloody smelly headphones.

Today I have been listening to:

Elbow Seldom seen kid
Golfrapp Seventh tree
No-Man Schoolyard ghosts (Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree's 'other' band)
Sufjan Stevens Illinois

All great albums IMHO - I've even heard quite a bit of good stuff from Slutz too!

(And they sound great too......)

Regards

Stephen
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #283
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Why does music today suck?

Because of listeners who suck really big time.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #284
Lives for gear
 
wax808's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
IMHO music is the best it has ever been. There are almost too many choices, too much talent out there to listen to it all.

Gone are the days of exclusivity for musicians. For better or worse music is back where it should be, accessible to everyone and more powerful than ever.

Some people will make crap, boohoo, dont listen to it. But a few will make some incredible things now that the doors are open. These same creative powerhouses would have been mere listeners in the 80's, but now the tools are unleashed.



I really hate exclusivity in art. I used to be a big part of it. I started blowing glass back in 1997 when I was 21. Back then I was one of a handful of artists who learned second hand from some pretty incredible Italian masters.

Then in 2000 or 2001 the knowledge of glassblowing was unleashed to the world via the internet and enterprising companies. Soon came the flood of garage glassblowers, crap everywhere, but innovation abounds. Some of the things people are making today were unthinkable just 10 years ago. Because of this new knowledge my own glass has improved 10x over.





My exclusive career that was once filled with kudos and money was squashed in a year. And we are all better for it. We are on the cusp of the biggest artistic revolution the world has ever seen. I can be whatever I want tomorrow..... Musician, Glassblower, Photographer, whatever I want....
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #285
Lives for gear
 
Alex Specht's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Two Reasons:

-Technology makes it easier to sound good (auto tune and drum machines) hence, less character of artists

-Two: no music education in school because of government cutbacks... Only privellaged (such as myself) have any musical education. Music is not valued by society

-Reasoning: No education + Pushing Buttons = Music
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #286
Gear Addict
 
lostinmusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think we were all very lucky to have lived through what we must surely begin to acknowledge was a golden era for music. It didn't exist 100 years ago and was born out of huge technological and social change at the start of the last century. Microphones, multi track recording, records, the radio, a cultural melting pot and a dozen other massive factors all conspired to produce an explosion of music. You might currently be able recreate parts of The Beatles, David Bowie, Abba, Neil Young, Bob Marley, Miles Davis etc etc etc but you can't recreate the time that they came from. What it felt like to live at that time. I don't believe that one person has the creative power in 2008 to compete with that. It's not that music sucks today - it doesn't, it's still amazing -it's just that for 50 years it was amazingly amazing.

Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #287
Lives for gear
 
jamsmith's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
For those who think music today is no par, name one group whose first release was in the last 5 years that is on par with The Benny Quintet, Earth Wind & Fire, or Led Zeppelin for combined musicianships and compositional ability. I don't think anyone is saying that good songs are still being written, they just aren't being arranged and played by people with the skill to make them great.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #288
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
digital, technology, society, freedom, I'm glad I'm living in the now, but sometimes I wish it were the 60's, but you know, all it takes is some people and motivation to recreate, and even transform into something new.

looking at music today, I am predicting that the new hippy era has already started. Psychadelic has reached a new level if anything.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #289
R3k
Gear Maniac
 
R3k's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It doesn't.

You're looking in the wrong places, or you're too old for this.

choose
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #290
Lives for gear
 
jamsmith's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3k ➑️
It doesn't.

You're looking in the wrong places, or you're too old for this.

choose
If you think you have to be young to have good taste in music, you are too young for this. I easily recognized that rock musicians short of a scant few like Page, Beck, and Hendrix paled in comparision to nearly any musicians of the jazz era when I was seeped into rock. Age and genre haven't **** to do with it. Maturity, maybe.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #291
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Albums used to be shorted decades ago, you didn't need to write 70 minutes of music for an album. Less filler
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #292
Lives for gear
 
jamsmith's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon ➑️
Albums used to be shorted decades ago, you didn't need to write 70 minutes of music for an album. Less filler
Doesn't wash. If that was the case, the stores would be stock with CD that had a 45 minutes of killer tune followed by 25 minutes of crap you just wouldn't bother to listen to.

One thing I will say about modern rock. It all sounds good to me. Nearly every song. The problems is that all sounds very much the same as if every song was written to sound perfect on FM radio. Take Velvet Revolver. I have both CDs. I can put one in and forget I am listening to a CD and think I have the radio on. Every song sounds right. But not one is memorable compared to the best songs from GNR or STP. Its that sameness that makes it suck after a while.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #293
Lives for gear
 
wax808's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsmith ➑️
Doesn't wash. If that was the case, the stores would be stock with CD that had a 45 minutes of killer tune followed by 25 minutes of crap you just wouldn't bother to listen to.

One thing I will say about modern rock. It all sounds good to me. Nearly every song. The problems is that all sounds very much the same as if every song was written to sound perfect on FM radio. Take Velvet Revolver. I have both CDs. I can put one in and forget I am listening to a CD and think I have the radio on. Every song sounds right. But not one is memorable compared to the best songs from GNR or STP. Its that sameness that makes it suck after a while.


I think VR and almost any other band who feels the pressure to be instantly great doesn't have the opportunity to experiment or do anything different.

Remember some of those GnR tracks like Civil war and both versions of Don't Cry, now those were weird tracks. And they worked.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #294
R3k
Gear Maniac
 
R3k's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsmith ➑️
If you think you have to be young to have good taste in music, you are too young for this. I easily recognized that rock musicians short of a scant few like Page, Beck, and Hendrix paled in comparision to nearly any musicians of the jazz era when I was seeped into rock. Age and genre haven't **** to do with it. Maturity, maybe.
Hey. I dont think you have to be 'young' to be abreast. I mean by being 'too old' that
if you cant find good music nodays, maybe its time to retire....

you should enjoy at least a little of what you work on... and a little of the material that our industry currently puts forth

cheers
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #295
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3k ➑️
It doesn't.

You're looking in the wrong places, or you're too old for this.

choose
I do in part agree.

The " I've heard it all before" or "music was so much better in the (insert decade)" mentality is something thats so easy to slip into as you get older.

Also you definitely have to search to find the good ****. Major labels aren't promoting bands that are pushing music forward. They always take the safe bet on something thats tried and tested.
Old 9th April 2008 | Show parent
  #296
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
By far the biggest thing that has changed since I began my career in 1965 is the massive decline in the amount of money musicians get paid. This has resulted in music becoming a rich man's hobby rather than a poor man's path out of poverty. There are way fewer gigs today and they can't support enough competition to insure excellence. In 1965 if you were any good at all, you could earn a very decent living playing music right out of high school. Doing it full time is the only way most people became REALLY good.

I know I've posted this before but I don't think there was any magic about the '60s.
Old 10th April 2008 | Show parent
  #297
Gear Guru
 
Sid Viscous's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There is the same amount of good music and crap that there has always been, IMHO.
Old 10th April 2008 | Show parent
  #298
Lives for gear
 
Mike Brown's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Its that pesky suck knob!

Nevermind, anyways I haven't worked on a sucky record in a long time... maybe i'm lucky but I love everything i've worked on!
Old 10th April 2008 | Show parent
  #299
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Viscous ➑️
There is the same amount of good music and crap that there has always been, IMHO.
Here's one problem with music today--and I'm not sure it's even really a problem. It isn't that music is any better or any worse than what has come before, it's just that nobody is really doing anything new or innovative anymore. And you know why that is? Because it really is no longer possible. I won't go as far as to say everything's been done, but pretty darn close. There are so many genres and sub-genres nowadays, and as technology progresses, anything and everything really has become possible, so it's really hard to be surprised anymore. The evolution of music has slowed down considerably in the last decade or so, because so much has already been done, and can be done.

For example, try putting on a popular album recorded in '78, and chances are, it'll sound strikingly different both musically and sonicaly from one recorded in '68. Similarly, put on one from '88, and it'll probably sound very different from one recorded ten years before. Same with one recorded in '98, versus one from '88.

However, if you put on a CD that came out this year, and compare it to one from back in '98, you probably won't be able to tell a major difference. The musical style and the production, be it rock, pop, country, or rap/hip-hop, has pretty much remained the same in the last ten years. And I think it's because after awhile, there are only so many places music can go. Unless free-form jazz somehow becomes the new mainstream, I don't see anything radically new happening for a long time. There is a lot of revolutionary things happening around music, such as the technology in which it is created and distributed, licensed, sold, whatever. But the music itself is kind of in a mature period, where it's legacy and tradition is still alive, but not necessarily it's innovation.

And I think this is neither good nor bad. When I'm listening to music, I don't necessarily need or want my mind to be blown. I just want to hear a good performance of a good song.
Old 10th April 2008 | Show parent
  #300
Lives for gear
 
Alex Specht's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson ➑️
There are way fewer gigs today and they can't support enough competition to insure excellence. .... Doing it full time is the only way most people became REALLY good.

.
Right on...

Part-Time musicians are struggling in both arenas. Hence, "Real Musicians work Day Jobs" or "what do you call a musician without a girlfriend?"

Jokes...

Im going to sit here writing on GS while procrastinating to work on my charts and practice my 2-5-1s....

The Chinese have very excellent musicians, technically the best in the world, because their society values that. But, in my opinion they lack creativity. I have never heard someone mention a "great Chinese Composer" or a "New Style of music from China"
πŸ“ Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump