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New Studio Grounding Issue. NEED HELP!!
Old 9th March 2014
  #31
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🎧 5 years
We should note that the NEC rules for Separately Derived Systems and for Balanced Power only apply to permanent or hard wired systems. Plug-in units are under "UL" rules.
Old 9th March 2014 | Show parent
  #32
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater ➡️
We should note that the NEC rules for Separately Derived Systems and for Balanced Power only apply to permanent or hard wired systems. Plug-in units are under "UL" rules.
+1

Yeah - what he said..........

Rod
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #33
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritelec ➡️
??
what if I had two panels...
One with a neutral and phase a and b for 120v stuff, and another for straight 240v stuff.. welders, compressors, heat, motors.... Must I bring 4 wires to that panel also?

If its a 120V then 3 wires are required..Any sub panel MUST have a separate ground and neutral wire, can not use the Neutral for the ground...
But you mentioned phase A & B, then it too must have 4 wires, if ONLY used for 240V motors ect then the neutral would not be used BUT the ground wire would be...
This is single phase power we are referring..
Simply; IF it is inspected it WOULD need a ground & Neutral wire, regardless if the Neutral was to be used..
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #34
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ritelec's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio ➡️
If its a 120V then 3 wires are required..Any sub panel MUST have a separate ground and neutral wire, can not use the Neutral for the ground...
Hypothetically. If I wanted a sub with 120... I could bring just one phase, neutral, and ground (not two phases) to that one panel.

Hypothetically. If I wanted a sub with 240... I could bring just two phases, and a ground (not a neutral) to that one panel.

Of course you would probably bring two phases, neutral, and ground... but you don't have to.

:- )

This is just sub panels I'm mentioning... I believe if it is service.. even if you don't want the neutral in a system that has one, you have to have it.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #35
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritelec ➡️
Hypothetically. If I wanted a sub with 120... I could bring just one phase, neutral, and ground (not two phases) to that one panel.

Hypothetically. If I wanted a sub with 240... I could bring just two phases, and a ground (not a neutral) to that one panel.

Of course you would probably bring two phases, neutral, and ground... but you don't have to.

:- )

This is just sub panels I'm mentioning... I believe if it is service.. even if you don't want the neutral in a system that has one, you have to have it.
First: There is single Phase 240V, and Three Phase 240V...
If you had a Single phase 240V Main panel it WOULD have a Neutral...never seen one that did not...
I would get a electrician to do this and not worry about it...
One more thing to add to this; the new NEC makes clear there can be a difference between a Neutral and a Grounded conductor, But a Neutral IS also a grounded conductor...
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #36
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ritelec's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
lol,,it's all good...

ground.. non current carrying grounding conductor.
neutral.. current carrying grounded conductor..

yes....... main would have a neutral...as I said.

if you wanted to take a sub panel from that main with no neutral you can is what I'm saying.

yes 240v 3 phase.. single phase red leg wye delta this and that..
lol

I'm not running any panels today with or with out neutrals so I'm not worried about it.

lol

And as far as electrician.. I'm one of those or (at least jersey gave me a certificate 20 + some years ago saying I am..).LOL

Thanks Rod..

Seams the general consensus is that it's equipment...
Which is ok..

Now Rod.. what if I where to take from the supplied outlets on the unit... and hardwire from them..

I don't need an answer.. just kidding.. I did.. no matter.. lol

peace guys.

Rp
Old 10th March 2014
  #37
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I know you don't "need" an answer - but I'll throw one out there anyway........

From a purely practical point of of view it makes little difference........ a device is still a device regardless of how you might modify it......... the electrical inspector doesn't suddenly have authority because a device has been altered.

From the manufacturer's point of view you void the warranty......

From UL's point of view it would no longer be an approved device......

However - if you were to take the plug end and modify it so that you could hardwired it into the panel - that would be a code violation - and not because of some regulation that says (in your state) that you can't have a balanced power system in a residential structure - but (rather) because it was never manufactured to be hardwired into a panel - and as such you would be (rightfully) ordered to remove it should the official ever become aware of it...... the company insuring your home would have a huge issue with it were they ever to inspect your home - and (God forbid) if you should ever have something go wrong with it that caused a fire while connected directly into the panel your insurance company would probably void your insurance policy as they would claim that your modification was a direct result of the damage.....

Rod
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #38
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ritelec's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Didn't get that involved.
I took rx. Brought from the unit to several areas around the room. Added boxes and receptacles Installed male ends. Plugged them in.
Like made extension chords is all.
Old 10th March 2014
  #39
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nope - made extension cords exactly - there is no "like" involved. That doesn't come under the heading of electrical work.

Rod
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