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Should I invest in acoustic treatment for a room that I don't own?
Old 20th January 2013
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Should I invest in acoustic treatment for a room that I don't own?

I recently was offered a partnership with someone who was looking for an engineer to record at his studio and split the profits 50/50. The studio is equipped with a Mac Pro, pro tools 9, waves mercury bundle, digi 003, Yamaha hs80m's, an Avalon 2022, and a Neumann U87. There is a decent sized control Room and separate studio that is large enough to cut live drums. I'm recording mostly vocals so its big enough. My issue is there is absolute no acoustic treatment at all. The studio has echo and flutter so bad I brung my client in the control room which has one corner with some kind if foam maybe package foam. No treatment on first reflections or anything just a VO corner. My question is would you suggest I pay for the acoustic treatment in both rooms? I am the only engineer that has access to the Room but I don't feel comfortable fixing issues in a studio that's not mine. I tried to cut vocals and had nasty comb filtering and he doesn't understand how important room acoustics are what would you suggest? Sorry if placed in wrong section
Old 20th January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Treatments can be moved if you go elsewhere. Make sure you have documents to show ownership if the partnership ends.
Old 20th January 2013
  #3
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Lenzo's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
My opinion would be that if you want to record there, you are probably going to have to fix some things. If you can afford it, and want to record there, as long as there is a written agreement stating what is yours and you use removable treatment, then you make it useable and can still take back your stuff if it doesn't work out. It sounds to me that as it stands it's not very useable. So either you figure a way to fix that or look for somewhere else to record. And as a previous partner in 2 studios, I can also tell you that personalities have to work if you get involved with other people. You have probably given this some thought, but before you put work and money into a existing studio, try and get a good feel for your compatibility with the current occupants.
L.
Old 20th January 2013
  #4
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Yea I know. I was gonna just gonna take them with me if we should go our separate ways but I just think its silly to have to purchase them in the first place considering a U87 cost more than the cost of treatment in both rooms.
Old 21st January 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by epotts06 ➑️
... My issue is there is absolute no acoustic treatment at all. The studio has echo and flutter so bad I brung my client in the control room..
... had nasty comb filtering and he doesn't understand how important room acoustics are what would you suggest? ...
... for an engineer to record at his studio
I understand it's easy to forget that as our ears gets trained and 'tuned in it's easy to hear stuff like this, but, his studio and he can't see ( hear ) that this is the situation?

IDK, I'd be thinking challenge'- "Ok (insert owner's name)- Go record us a nice clean dry vocal"
I record at home so not putting on airs here or anything, but In some circles it's been said (in so many words), this is not a studio It's a place with some gear'
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne ➑️
I understand it's easy to forget that as our ears gets trained and 'tuned in it's easy to hear stuff like this, but, his studio and he can't see ( hear ) that this is the situation?

IDK, I'd be thinking challenge'- "Ok (insert owner's name)- Go record us a nice clean dry vocal"
I record at home so not putting on airs here or anything, but In some circles it's been said (in so many words), this is not a studio It's a place with some gear'
Idk what you just said lol. I forgot to mention that one of my clients had his friend record a verse on a song I recorded in the studio. The friend came by and I imported the session. His vocals smoked the ones I recorded. Even the owner noticed a clear difference. He said he just used a mbox and a 200 dollar mic. I was thinking dude that's proof the room is horrible. I know how to gain stage and have worked in several high end studios. There's no way that a two hundred dollar vocal chain should sound ten times better than mine. That was the proof!
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by epotts06 ➑️
Yea I know. I was gonna just gonna take them with me if we should go our separate ways but I just think its silly to have to purchase them in the first place considering a U87 cost more than the cost of treatment in both rooms.
I'd probably be investing more than the cost of a U87 in two rooms.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea ➑️
I'd probably be investing more than the cost of a U87 in two rooms.
Of course but its foolish to spend 3200 on a mic when you have no acoustic treatment at all. That was my point. None the less I guess I have no choice but to purchase the panels. The control room is 100 sq ft and the studio is probably 200 sq ft at the most so it shouldn't cost the much make it useable.
Old 21st January 2013
  #9
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Arichlsss's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The attack wall is getting me all worked up at the momenthttp://www.acousticsciences.com/attackwall
Old 21st January 2013
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It is funny that room acoustics has the largest impact on quality but a lot of times is the least expensive thing.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #11
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by epotts06 ➑️
Of course but its foolish to spend 3200 on a mic when you have no acoustic treatment at all. That was my point. None the less I guess I have no choice but to purchase the panels. The control room is 100 sq ft and the studio is probably 200 sq ft at the most so it shouldn't cost the much make it useable.
A 100 sq ft control room is virtually impossible to treat to a professional level in my opinion. That treatment alone could easily cost $3000. A 200 square foot studio could easily cost $5000 if you buy from an online professional source, installed adequate diffusion, etc. Presumably, both would require extensive bass trapping and I'd recommend a mix of broadband absorbers, MLV traps and VPRs to minimize the space commitment. You'd want clouds in both rooms, some gobos and I'd also recommend hiring an acoustician to help optimize the treatments.

DIYing would be the way I'd go. It would still cost quite a bit of cash but it's the time commitment plus baseline skill set that keeps many away from DIY.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea ➑️
A 100 sq ft control room is virtually impossible to treat to a professional level in my opinion. That treatment alone could easily cost $3000. A 200 square foot studio could easily cost $5000 if you buy from an online professional source, installed adequate diffusion, etc. Presumably, both would require extensive bass trapping and I'd recommend a mix of broadband absorbers, MLV traps and VPRs to minimize the space commitment. You'd want clouds in both rooms, some gobos and I'd also recommend hiring an acoustician to help optimize the treatments.

DIYing would be the way I'd go. It would still cost quite a bit of cash but it's the time commitment plus baseline skill set that keeps many away from DIY.
DIYing is always cheaper and that goes for anything in life.
But your estimates are a very high IMO. Or should I say in my experience of hundreds if not thousands of rooms done. And yes these are rooms that clients work, sell music and win awards in.
But hey I wish everyone had that kind of budget to work with.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #13
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I think that I could tame the room for 2K. But I'm not that experienced in room acoustics. There are a few companies that offer room kits that meet my needs.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by epotts06 ➑️
I think that I could tame the room for 2K. But I'm not that experienced in room acoustics. There are a few companies that offer room kits that meet my needs.
2k should be enough. With that amount I would look for a custom setup vs a kit from who ever you use.
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #15
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by epotts06 ➑️
I think that I could tame the room for 2K. But I'm not that experienced in room acoustics. There are a few companies that offer room kits that meet my needs.
Well that's a huge assumption on your part - however - assuming you believe that - then the answer is simple - though I don't understand what your question here really pertains to.

The question is one you should be asking yourself - and that is "is it worth it to me to invest 2 grand to fix this room."

And that is a question that no one but you can answer......


Oh - one other thing - just a comment - if you aren't that experienced in room treatment - how do you know that those companies are really offering you what you need? What is their track record - and how did you verify it?

Good luck,

Rod
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras ➑️
But your estimates are a very high IMO. Or should I say in my experience of hundreds if not thousands of rooms done. And yes these are rooms that clients work, sell music and win awards in.
Installing commercial products, I would probably put $2K into diffusion for a 200 sq foot live room. I only know of the RPG Modex as a commercial example of a metal panel absorber and those would run your tab up fast. Just thinking of saving footprint in a small room. The local studios I hang out in have much larger treatment budgets. I thought I was on the low side for a non-DIY estimate for a commercial studio.

Glenn, the photo on your site of the piano in the studio - that looks like the room has 8 QRDs just on one wall. That's about a grand just in diffusion on that one wall...
Old 23rd January 2013
  #17
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Arichlsss's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Room treatment or check on headphones like crazy but you can't mix or record in a bad room and expect good results
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