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Building & Soundproofing 4 Music Rooms
Old 20th January 2013
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Building & Soundproofing 4 Music Rooms

We are about to build 4 soundproof drum rooms in central London. The space we have has a concrete floor, brick walls and a timber single pitch roof with no insulation. The footprint of the room is in the shape of a rectangle. The will be a long corridor running the full length of one side of the rectangle with the 4 dorways into the studios. There is an office on the other side of the building next to the corridor - i.e. the rooms will not be directly next to the next door office. We have had a number of quotes by various soundproofing companies here in London and they all seem to use the same systems. After reading over many of the forum posts by experts in the field it appears that what we have been quoted on may not be quite right for what we want to achieve. We have been told we need the following:

Timber Frame Studwall
100 mm 45/60(depending on quote) Rockwool
Resilient Bar System
19mm Soundbloc Plasterboard
12.5mm Soundbloc Plasterboard

Does this sound like it will work as from my understanding I don't see how it would be as good as the green glue method?

Cost is an issue as we have so many we have to build - we have a further 3 to do once these 4 have been finished.

Any suggestions would be hugely appreciated.
Old 20th January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
With acoustic drums and that plan, expect quite a bit of bleed. It gets down to how much isolation you need. The doors will be a big part of the picture - the kind of door and how it's framed and sealed. Are there any windows?
Old 20th January 2013
  #3
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
There are no windows in the rooms. The doors was going to be my next question. Is it better to go for the double door system or the single purpose built acoustic door? Whichever option we go for will be sealed and airtight.
Old 20th January 2013 | Show parent
  #4
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muttyjoe ➑️
There are no windows in the rooms. The doors was going to be my next question. Is it better to go for the double door system or the single purpose built acoustic door? Whichever option we go for will be sealed and airtight.
I'd think one door, done well. You can get loads of DIY advice in Rod Gervais' book.

Home Recording Studio: Build It Like the Pros: Rod Gervais: 9781435457171: Amazon.com: Books
Old 21st January 2013
  #5
Audio X
Guest
With drum rooms right next to each other, If you are looking for close to total sound proofing and isolation.. what ever your budget is.. I would at least triple it. It takes a lot of mass which equals a lot of materials and as mentioned custom doors and door jambs...
Old 21st January 2013
  #6
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🎧 5 years
takes a lot of mass which equals a lot of materials and as mentioned custom doors and door jambs
Old 21st January 2013
  #7
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muttyjoe ➑️
We are about to build 4 soundproof drum rooms in central London. The space we have has a concrete floor, brick walls and a timber single pitch roof with no insulation. The footprint of the room is in the shape of a rectangle. The will be a long corridor running the full length of one side of the rectangle with the 4 dorways into the studios. There is an office on the other side of the building next to the corridor - i.e. the rooms will not be directly next to the next door office. We have had a number of quotes by various soundproofing companies here in London and they all seem to use the same systems. After reading over many of the forum posts by experts in the field it appears that what we have been quoted on may not be quite right for what we want to achieve. We have been told we need the following:

Timber Frame Studwall
100 mm 45/60(depending on quote) Rockwool
Resilient Bar System
19mm Soundbloc Plasterboard
12.5mm Soundbloc Plasterboard

Does this sound like it will work as from my understanding I don't see how it would be as good as the green glue method?

Cost is an issue as we have so many we have to build - we have a further 3 to do once these 4 have been finished.

Any suggestions would be hugely appreciated.
I don't see this getting you to your goal... not if you want anywhere near reasonable isolation for acoustic drums.

I have measured acoustic drums for the purpose of isolation design - with peaks resulting in readings of 110dB with a strong drummer.

I do not see this happening with single stud framed walls.

Use isolated double framed wall assemblies with at least 1" between frames - 2x6 on 24" centers will provide greater low frequency isolation than 2x4's on 16" centers - forget the resilient channel - and I would not waste my money on specialty drywall products.

Triple layers of 5/8" FC drywall, (or a layer of plywood (5/8") to avoid having to use isolation braces to keep walls aligned) covered by a double layer of 5/8" drywall - don not overpack insulation in the wall cavities to avoid coupling the walls - a lightweight fiberglass insulation will provide some added benefit in low frequencies - pay very VERY careful attention to all corner details to attain proper seals using backer rod and caulk for each layer of drywall - same goes for the drywall joints at the floor/wall intersections.

I imagine there are corridors separating the spaces for access - so either a single super door installed staggered across the hall from one another - or well sealed double doors (assuming code allows this - make sure you check).

Door seals are critical - as with walls where air can travel sound will travel.

You don't discuss ceilings - and they are as critical as the walls - again maintain your separation from one space to another - same mass on the ceilings as on the walls - same insulation within the cavities - make certain that you properly deal with draft/fire stops at top of walls (and vertical corners) as proscribed by code

Fire/draft stops can be a commercial expansive fire rated foam if code allows - however be careful not to apply this product any more than you have to.

Be very VERY careful not to create any acoustic bridges between rooms - anywhere they connect is a direct passage for sound to travel.

This should help you get started anyway....

Rod
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais ➑️
I don't see this getting you to your goal... not if you want anywhere near reasonable isolation for acoustic drums.

I have measured acoustic drums for the purpose of isolation design - with peaks resulting in readings of 110dB with a strong drummer.

I do not see this happening with single stud framed walls.

Use isolated double framed wall assemblies with at least 1" between frames - 2x6 on 24" centers will provide greater low frequency isolation than 2x4's on 16" centers - forget the resilient channel - and I would not waste my money on specialty drywall products.

Triple layers of 5/8" FC drywall, (or a layer of plywood (5/8") to avoid having to use isolation braces to keep walls aligned) covered by a double layer of 5/8" drywall - don not overpack insulation in the wall cavities to avoid coupling the walls - a lightweight fiberglass insulation will provide some added benefit in low frequencies - pay very VERY careful attention to all corner details to attain proper seals using backer rod and caulk for each layer of drywall - same goes for the drywall joints at the floor/wall intersections.

I imagine there are corridors separating the spaces for access - so either a single super door installed staggered across the hall from one another - or well sealed double doors (assuming code allows this - make sure you check).

Door seals are critical - as with walls where air can travel sound will travel.

You don't discuss ceilings - and they are as critical as the walls - again maintain your separation from one space to another - same mass on the ceilings as on the walls - same insulation within the cavities - make certain that you properly deal with draft/fire stops at top of walls (and vertical corners) as proscribed by code

Fire/draft stops can be a commercial expansive fire rated foam if code allows - however be careful not to apply this product any more than you have to.

Be very VERY careful not to create any acoustic bridges between rooms - anywhere they connect is a direct passage for sound to travel.

This should help you get started anyway....

Rod
That's absolutely fantastic! Thank you so much for such an in depth response Rod. For the ceilings we were going to do them the same as the wall construction in the 4 pods and in the other rooms where there are existing walls we were going to create independent ceilings as as far as I understand this appears to be the best method of soundproofing a ceiling if you can afford to lose the height. For the floors, in the 4 pods there is a concrete base that the frames will be built on. What is your suggestion to stop flanking or is this not an issue on the floors? Would building a small drum riser (say 4" off the ground) isolate the sound from going into the next room or am I barking up the wrong tree? Would an independent floor be a better option or is there a simpler method?
Many thanks again for all of your help.
Old 21st January 2013
  #9
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The best floors for these rooms can be a couple of inches of 703 with double layers of plywood over - and finished hardwood over that.

It takes impact transmissions out of the equation - and is much easier on the legs during a long practice session.

However - you then also have to deal with handicapped accessibility issues - and usually wind up having to deal with this through the hallways as well to overcome that.

A local drum riser can go a long way towar achieving the same goal a fa as taking impact noise out of the question - but you also have to deal with bass amps as well.

Rod
Old 21st January 2013
  #10
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just curious.....with all this "air-tight" construction going on how do you deal with ventilation? Seems a drummer flailing away in a small air-tight space is gonna run through the available oxygen supply pretty quick!
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #11
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton ➑️
Just curious.....with all this "air-tight" construction going on how do you deal with ventilation? Seems a drummer flailing away in a small air-tight space is gonna run through the available oxygen supply pretty quick!
Rick,

You design baffle systems to move air through that deal with the noise issues. System design needs to incorporate low velocity with adequate volume - including fresh air supply.

Rod
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais ➑️
Rick,

You design baffle systems to move air through that deal with the noise issues.

Rod
Yeah, I imagine that designing the HVAC system would be a an art unto itself.

Very interesting thread.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #13
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton ➑️
Yeah, I imagine the designing the HVAC system would be a an art unto itself.

Very interesting thread.
Yes - I generally spend a lot of time with those system designs when contracted to provide them.

Rod
Old 24th January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais ➑️
Yes - I generally spend a lot of time with those system designs when contracted to provide them.

Rod
Hey Rod!
I just bought your book as recommended by Syncamorea earlier in the thread. Do you offer a service of designing the rooms for us? If so how much do you charge? If this is a service you offer maybe we could talk some time soon?
Many thanks.
Old 24th January 2013
  #15
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Dange's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Getting Rod involved is a smart move
Old 24th January 2013 | Show parent
  #16
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muttyjoe ➑️
Hey Rod!
I just bought your book as recommended by Syncamorea earlier in the thread. Do you offer a service of designing the rooms for us? If so how much do you charge? If this is a service you offer maybe we could talk some time soon?
Many thanks.
Rates vary depending on the project - degree of complexity - statutory requirements, etc.

Email me and we can discuss further if you wish

[email protected]

Rod
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #17
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais ➑️
Rates vary depending on the project - degree of complexity - statutory requirements, etc.

Email me and we can discuss further if you wish

[email protected]

Rod
Email sent!
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #18
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dange ➑️
Getting Rod involved is a smart move
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