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DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)
Old 3rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #211
LSP
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arqen ➡️
Good question. You can do it, but as AwwDeOhh mentioned, it will likely effect the low frequency diffusion performance.

When the wavelength is very large compared to the panel size, little or no sound will be scattered.

If you reduce the height of the centre panel, certain low frequency waves may behave as if you've taken the centre panel out all together. And if these waves are blind to the centre panel, they will tend to wrap around the diffuser (diffraction) instead of scattering back. However, if the diffuser is mounted on a reflective wall, the wall will still reflect the sound back.

These diffusers start working around 500 Hz, which has a wavelength of 0.7 m, or about 2' - 3". So if the panel is only 2' high, it is shorter than the wavelength of a 500 Hz wave, and you can expect the performance at 500 Hz to be reduced.

You can use the pattern you mentioned, but if your low frequency diffusion performance is critical you might want to avoid it.

Do you by any chance have a link to the video of the diffusers done by Gavin Haverstick?

Hope this helps,
Tim
Very interesting info. Thanks for the schooling!

Here's a link to the you tube video:

Final "Stonehand Studio" build update, with "Studio Acoustic Treatments" - YouTube

There's some decent views of the panels at the beginning, and again around 5:00.

Marc
Old 4th January 2013 | Show parent
  #212
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSP ➡️
Very interesting info. Thanks for the schooling!

Here's a link to the you tube video:

Final "Stonehand Studio" build update, with "Studio Acoustic Treatments" - YouTube

There's some decent views of the panels at the beginning, and again around 5:00.

Marc
Hey no problem. Those panels look very cool... thanks for pointing them out!

It looks like they would diffuse sound reasonably well, and I'm curious as to how well they perform. Sometimes aesthetics and acoustics are at odds with one another, but of course aesthetics DO matter, and can impact how musicians feel and perform.
Old 4th January 2013 | Show parent
  #213
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Looks like there is an absorber behind them (besides the LEDs)
They're probably most effective as a diffusor for direct (90º) angle sounds, and start to absorb more as the angle of incidence increases. That is just an observation based on a picture though.
Old 4th January 2013 | Show parent
  #214
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh ➡️
Looks like there is an absorber behind them (besides the LEDs)
They're probably most effective as a diffusor for direct (90º) angle sounds, and start to absorb more as the angle of incidence increases. That is just an observation based on a picture though.
Yeah I think you're right with that observation. They let more sound pass through as the angle increases, so if you wanted maximum effect from a particular diffuser you would position an instrument to face it straight on. If they were applied strategically, on a mass scale, they could perhaps be used for variable acoustics (where the acoustic is notably altered by changing performer position).
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #215
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audiothings's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
thanks for the plans... they've been used!

Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #216
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Question:

How much of a negative effect would a couch in front of the array have ? The bottom 6 inches or so of the middle three units would be obscured by the top curve of the couch back. The couch would be spaced off the array by 6 inches, maybe a biti more. That's my plan , cause we need a couch in the rear don't we? Unless, it's going to have a performance hit on the diffusion!!
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #217
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unqlenol's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiothings ➡️
thanks for the plans... they've been used!

niiiiice
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #218
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiothings ➡️
thanks for the plans... they've been used!

Awesome! Thanks for posting this photo! I love the black theme, and this is the first photo I've seen of them fully mounted using the profiled modulation.

Did you run into any challenges when putting it together?
Old 23rd January 2013 | Show parent
  #219
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radial185 ➡️
Question:

How much of a negative effect would a couch in front of the array have ? The bottom 6 inches or so of the middle three units would be obscured by the top curve of the couch back. The couch would be spaced off the array by 6 inches, maybe a biti more. That's my plan , cause we need a couch in the rear don't we? Unless, it's going to have a performance hit on the diffusion!!
I don't think it would be that significant because these diffusers are designed to scatter in the horizontal plane (side-to-side), rather than up and down. For critical listening, you'd want to be a lot further out from the diffuser than you mentioned your couch would be. So just be aware that the people on the couch probably won't hear as clear a mix as you hear in the listening position, because diffusers can produce artifacts when they're too close to the listener.
Old 24th January 2013 | Show parent
  #220
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Awesome! Thanks for posting this photo! I love the black theme, and this is the first photo I've seen of them fully mounted using the profiled modulation.
Thank you. The room is far from complete. Colours will change. Diffuser will be painted. Lighting will be added.

Quote:
Did you run into any challenges when putting it together?
In India, people who are even mildly educated, usually cannot work with their hands. We are too bloody snobbish to involve ourselves with physical labour. I cannot even change a light bulb. I have a good carpenter, I gave him a printout of a big version of your plans with all the dimensions (which I made in Sketchup), and he took care of the rest. 10 mm MDF, btw.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #221
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiothings ➡️
Thank you. The room is far from complete. Colours will change. Diffuser will be painted. Lighting will be added.


In India, people who are even mildly educated, usually cannot work with their hands. We are too bloody snobbish to involve ourselves with physical labour. I cannot even change a light bulb. I have a good carpenter, I gave him a printout of a big version of your plans with all the dimensions (which I made in Sketchup), and he took care of the rest. 10 mm MDF, btw.
Hey well there's no harm in outsourcing if it gets the job done better and faster, and gives the local carpenter some work! I actually think that's a smart idea and from the looks of your results it's well worth it. I've talked to a few people who have done this because they don't have much spare time, or they just wanted an awesome job done.

You certainly don't sound snobbish to me... you sound practical!
Old 11th February 2013 | Show parent
  #222
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
So,

Seems to have gone a bit quiet here. Anyone else built these diffusers? Share your thoughts on how you think they are going for you.

Mine are built but yet to be installed. Im kind of afraid of what they are going to do to the nice low end absorption Im getting from the 12 or so inches of pink stuff built into the back wall, as they will be mounted across it and taking up 3/4's of the back wall width. Ill be testing using ears and REW and will report back as I have seen this question asked before.
Old 11th February 2013 | Show parent
  #223
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audiothings's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Im kind of afraid of what they are going to do to the nice low end absorption Im getting from the 12 or so inches of pink stuff built into the back wall, as they will be mounted across it and taking up 3/4's of the back wall width.
I think you should be fine. The low frequencies should diffract around the panel to access the pink fluffy. Watching to see if your results comply... All the best.
Old 24th February 2013
  #224
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scoring4films's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for the thread and plans Tim!

What do you think of using prefab bamboo laminate flooring as a raw material for building the A1-LF?

One option is 7mm thick, which means the heights/depths of the channels would be multiples of 7mm, rather than the 10mm multiples shown in your plans.

Would 7mm thickness multiples reduce the effectiveness of the diffusor too much?
Would the other dimensions need to be changed as well (e.g. the 60mm/120mm channel widths)?
What if the heights/depths were 14mm (doubled 7mm) or 15.8mm multiples instead?

link: Quickstyle's Bamboo Laminate Flooring (7mm thick).





-----------------------------------------------------------



link: sahara-bamboo-flooring (15.8mm thick)

Old 24th February 2013
  #225
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scoring4films's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
prob. a silly idea, but...

what if you trimmed away the material overhanging the slots on this prefab slotwall, to fully expose the channels, and then glued the stips of trimmed material back on to the raised sections between the channels for extra height. It looks like the depths/heights of the various channels be ~7mm, 14mm and 21mm.

Of course the surface would be "periodic" and much less complex than the A1-LF, but maybe there are clever work arounds?

Maybe rip/cut other lengthwise sections of slotwall off and re-attach for more even more depth/height variation?
Even with more complex cutting and re-attaching, the depths/heigths of the slots would still be in multiples of ~7mm.


link to product description: mdf-raw-slotwall
Old 24th February 2013 | Show parent
  #226
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
It would work if the dimensions are correct, but might be more labor overall.
Old 26th February 2013
  #227
Gear Addict
 
Storm Mastering's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Design for my new mastering studio is an "overdamped" one with slats on the walls to give back some ambiance at high frequencies. above 2 kHz and under 500 Hz "RT60" times are equals, but the area between was a little bit dryer.

So i did make an air transparent version of your diffuser with the remaining unused slats (45 mm wide by 18 mm depth). There is 2 layers : one 75 mm containing the pattern, and another 75 mm one with high density rockwooll (I didn't wanted the slats under the diffuser to "alter" the design). It has a total depth of 150 mm, 600 mm high.

For the pattern, i used 65 mm of width instead of 60, and used "10 mm gap - 45 mm slat - 10 mm gap" for each step.

It did give me back like 20 ms of RT60 around 1 Khz, and i'm still needing about 20 ms more for the RT60 to be uniform at all frequencies, so perhaps I will build a bigger one, or a less air transparent one !

Thanks for the design
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-1.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-2.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-3.jpg  
Old 27th February 2013
  #228
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DozerMayne's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Surprised no one has done a Lowes or Home Depot build with material list. Next time I am out, going to have to see if they have materials around 10mm thick. The A1-LF looks to be an easy build.
Old 28th February 2013 | Show parent
  #229
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
These worked out quite well, performance is great for such a simple design
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-picture-1.jpg  
Old 28th February 2013
  #230
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scoring4films's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Curious to know if anyone has measured the effectiveness of this design, in a real world application, and compared it to other diffusors. Is that even possible?
Old 28th February 2013 | Show parent
  #231
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoring4films ➡️
Curious to know if anyone has measured the effectiveness of this design, in a real world application, and compared it to other diffusors. Is that even possible?
Not measurements, but BEM simulations are known to be very accurate compared to measurements:

https://gearspace.com/board/8160618-post43.html
Old 1st March 2013 | Show parent
  #232
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Schaap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xulfer1 ➡️
These worked out quite well, performance is great for such a simple design
If you have the means and spirit, from my experience, you should put the fractals on this simple design. It's definitely a step(ped) up in diffusion.
It is like recording to go from a good SDmic to a Schoeps or DPA
Old 8th March 2013
  #233
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Argen,

Can these diffusers be used in any type of room? I know they can be used in a listening room but how about a bed room (15x13.5x7.5) with enough absorption (twin bed, rug) and a desk and small bureau? I need some diffusion here. Maybe a smaller array needed than a larger listening room? Thanks.
Old 8th March 2013
  #234
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
delete

Last edited by cool09; 8th March 2013 at 03:20 AM.. Reason: delete
Old 13th March 2013 | Show parent
  #235
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Bamboo laminate flooring as diffuser material

I've been travelling, but I'm glad this thread is still going strong!

Good idea about using bamboo laminate flooring. I expect multiples of 7mm would not perform as well because the overall performance depth would be reduced. Multiples of 14mm have better potential and I would give that a shot!

You don't have to, but for predictable results you should scale the well widths to keep the proportions the same. It will still diffuse sound if you don't scale the well widths, but the performance will be different.

Hope it goes well and I'm sure we would all love to see photos if you end up doing this!

Tim


Quote:
Originally Posted by scoring4films ➡️
Thanks for the thread and plans Tim!

What do you think of using prefab bamboo laminate flooring as a raw material for building the A1-LF?

One option is 7mm thick, which means the heights/depths of the channels would be multiples of 7mm, rather than the 10mm multiples shown in your plans.

Would 7mm thickness multiples reduce the effectiveness of the diffusor too much?
Would the other dimensions need to be changed as well (e.g. the 60mm/120mm channel widths)?
What if the heights/depths were 14mm (doubled 7mm) or 15.8mm multiples instead?

link: Quickstyle's Bamboo Laminate Flooring (7mm thick).





-----------------------------------------------------------



link: sahara-bamboo-flooring (15.8mm thick)

Old 13th March 2013 | Show parent
  #236
Gear Addict
 
Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
If you can find an efficient way to do this it might be worth it, but you're better off going for a step size larger than 7mm.



Quote:
Originally Posted by scoring4films ➡️
prob. a silly idea, but...

what if you trimmed away the material overhanging the slots on this prefab slotwall, to fully expose the channels, and then glued the stips of trimmed material back on to the raised sections between the channels for extra height. It looks like the depths/heights of the various channels be ~7mm, 14mm and 21mm.

Of course the surface would be "periodic" and much less complex than the A1-LF, but maybe there are clever work arounds?

Maybe rip/cut other lengthwise sections of slotwall off and re-attach for more even more depth/height variation?
Even with more complex cutting and re-attaching, the depths/heigths of the slots would still be in multiples of ~7mm.


link to product description: mdf-raw-slotwall
Old 13th March 2013 | Show parent
  #237
Gear Addict
 
Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubic Spline ➡️
Design for my new mastering studio is an "overdamped" one with slats on the walls to give back some ambiance at high frequencies. above 2 kHz and under 500 Hz "RT60" times are equals, but the area between was a little bit dryer.

So i did make an air transparent version of your diffuser with the remaining unused slats (45 mm wide by 18 mm depth). There is 2 layers : one 75 mm containing the pattern, and another 75 mm one with high density rockwooll (I didn't wanted the slats under the diffuser to "alter" the design). It has a total depth of 150 mm, 600 mm high.

For the pattern, i used 65 mm of width instead of 60, and used "10 mm gap - 45 mm slat - 10 mm gap" for each step.

It did give me back like 20 ms of RT60 around 1 Khz, and i'm still needing about 20 ms more for the RT60 to be uniform at all frequencies, so perhaps I will build a bigger one, or a less air transparent one !

Thanks for the design
I really like your air transparent version of the design. One way to help even it out is to use designs that are less periodic (e.g., you could use one of the "profiled modulations" described here:

5-module profiled modulation (details given on last page of blueprints)
7-module profiled modulation

Great work!
Old 13th March 2013 | Show parent
  #238
Gear Addict
 
Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool09 ➡️
Argen,

Can these diffusers be used in any type of room? I know they can be used in a listening room but how about a bed room (15x13.5x7.5) with enough absorption (twin bed, rug) and a desk and small bureau? I need some diffusion here. Maybe a smaller array needed than a larger listening room? Thanks.
Sure, you can use them in your bedroom. Just make sure you are far enough away from the diffusers to avoid hearing artifacts. 6 feet of distance between you and the diffusers is a good minimum to shoot for.

Being more specific.... I consider the minimum listening distance to be about 3 times the longest wavelength diffused, where wavelength = (344 m/s) / freq.

Depending how the diffuser modules are arranged, the minimum effective frequency is 500 - 600 Hz (wavelength of 0.573 - 0.688 meters). So the minimum listening distance is:

3 x 0.573 m = 1.72 m = 5.64 ft
or
3 x 0.678 m = 2.06 m = 6.77 ft

Hope this helps!
Old 13th March 2013
  #239
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John White's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Tim,

Finally got an opportunity to put your plans into effect. I was very inspired by "optimization" in regards to the repetition, conservation of building and by the performance of a very trim diffuser. I liked the way your plans were designed such that the profile was a series of pieces that make a whole.

I'd like to try to incorporate these same ideals into my building practices going forward. I'm not entirely sure how that may materialize, but I will certainly keep it in mind. Ironically it turned out to be a bit more complicated than that for these units.



Old 13th March 2013
  #240
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scoring4films's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
thanks for the replies Tim.

That build looks fantastic JW!

I was just about to jump into a build, but I'm a bit unsure now after checking out some of the other, more common skyline and QRD type diffusors, which seem to have deeper "wells".

Aren't deeper wells better? Does anyone know how the performance of the A1LF compares to the more common diffusor designs (e.g. Realtraps Diffusor)?

I understand that the A1LF is designed to make efficient use of space, but having a deeper diffusor wouldn't be an issue for me.

On the other hand, my control room is small, side walls only ~2m from the listening position, so maybe the shallower A1LF is ideal in my case?
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