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DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)
Old 7th July 2014 | Show parent
  #451
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Jolida's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy81 ➡️
Almost done with my 5 panels. Decided on simply the basic design. Painted them in black lacquer to match my HT decor.
Any reason for making the base so thick?
Old 7th July 2014
  #452
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🎧 10 years
Appreciate the info I love learning more about treatment :D
Old 7th July 2014 | Show parent
  #453
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Rudy81's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolida ➡️
Any reason for making the base so thick?
The one pictured and two others have thick bases in order to create the recommended modulation of 0,5,6,5,0. Unless I misunderstood something, the plan is to make them so that all I have to do is hang them and they will have the required depth. One way or another I would need to create the depth to produce that suggested modulation.

During the build they were all the same. I then added 2x4's ripped to the correct depth to apply the modulation depth.

Once the lacquer cures I'll put up some more pictures.
Old 7th July 2014 | Show parent
  #454
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🎧 5 years
Here is the basic build.
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-diffuser3.jpg  
Old 7th July 2014 | Show parent
  #455
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Jolida's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy81 ➡️
The one pictured and two others have thick bases in order to create the recommended modulation of 0,5,6,5,0. Unless I misunderstood something, the plan is to make them so that all I have to do is hang them and they will have the required depth. One way or another I would need to create the depth to produce that suggested modulation.

During the build they were all the same. I then added 2x4's ripped to the correct depth to apply the modulation depth.

Once the lacquer cures I'll put up some more pictures.
Nice. Thanks for the info. It sure helps..
Old 7th July 2014 | Show parent
  #456
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Jolida's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy81 ➡️
Here is the basic build.
Where have u installed them? And how do they behave in ur room?
Old 7th July 2014 | Show parent
  #457
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolida ➡️
Where have u installed them? And how do they behave in ur room?
I have yet to install them. The back wall of my listening room is 20' wide and 9' tall. It does not currently have anything on it.

I previously had built some quadratic diffusers, but my build weighed a ton and I did not do a very good job on that build.

I decided to build this design for its simplicity and overall look. I'm not sure if I will be able to measure the results. The listening position is about 20' in front of that wall, so the effect for me will not be that noticeable. However, the back row in my media room is about 4' from where the panels will hang and I do think there will be some benefit there.

I am also in the process of building some bass traps. I'm about to embark on that project today. The plan is for super chunk traps in the main room corners as well as the corners at the reflection points.

The wall and ceiling reflection points will have bass trap absorbers.

After many years of working with rock wool and fiberglass, I am getting away from that product and going to UltraTouch denim insulation, R30 to be exact. Just got it yesterday and it is really nice stuff. The lab acoustic tests seem really promising for absorber use.
Old 7th July 2014 | Show parent
  #458
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy81 ➡️
I have yet to install them. The back wall of my listening room is 20' wide and 9' tall. It does not currently have anything on it.

I previously had built some quadratic diffusers, but my build weighed a ton and I did not do a very good job on that build.

I decided to build this design for its simplicity and overall look. I'm not sure if I will be able to measure the results. The listening position is about 20' in front of that wall, so the effect for me will not be that noticeable. However, the back row in my media room is about 4' from where the panels will hang and I do think there will be some benefit there.

I am also in the process of building some bass traps. I'm about to embark on that project today. The plan is for super chunk traps in the main room corners as well as the corners at the reflection points.

The wall and ceiling reflection points will have bass trap absorbers.

After many years of working with rock wool and fiberglass, I am getting away from that product and going to UltraTouch denim insulation, R30 to be exact. Just got it yesterday and it is really nice stuff. The lab acoustic tests seem really promising for absorber use.
Nice work on your build. Looks great! Also, I hope your bass traps turn out well. UltraTouch is nice stuff to work with and should work well for the superchunks.
Old 7th July 2014 | Show parent
  #459
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by projektk ➡️
Appreciate the info I love learning more about treatment :D
Glad you like . Spreading the knowledge is rewarding in itself, and the feedback and interaction from the Gearslutz community helped these diffusers come to life around the world!
Old 8th July 2014
  #460
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🎧 10 years
Tim, is there any benefit in making the 4 feet tall ones rather than the 2ft ones, if I had to use it in a 2 channel audiophile room where all the listening will be done while seated? Will it be the same if I install the modules on the back wall at ear-height?
Also, has anyone tried these on the ceiling - reflection points?
Old 10th July 2014 | Show parent
  #461
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arqen ➡️
You got it.
So far, I made three numbers of the A1-LF last evening using 12.3mm MDF. Took an hour & fifteen mins to make the three. Very straightforward design & really inexpensive.
Tim, I cant praise the efficiency of the design enough. It has made the listening so much better. There is a marked improvement in instrument-definition as well as seperation & depth of soundstage. Dint quite expect so much from such a clean-cut design. Very impressed with the results. Total cost per piece comes to less than $10 (excluding the painting). I highly suggest the A1-LF to anybody interested in the DIY approach, as the design is so easy to implement.
I dont think any design out there could outbeat the A1-LF in terms of price vs performance vs ease-of-build. Great work Tim & many thanks once again...
Old 12th July 2014 | Show parent
  #462
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🎧 10 years
This is mine:



10cm MDF 1,22m tall. I like how it looks, I might just leave it like that or paint it later, white maybe, I dont know...

My only concern, is that some of the cuts I made are not perfectly straight as I was using a jig saw machine (bloody hard to make a perfect line by hand with this), so I may have a millimeter deviation in some places here and there. I wonder if this can affect the diffusor performance...
Old 12th July 2014 | Show parent
  #463
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolida ➡️
Tim, is there any benefit in making the 4 feet tall ones rather than the 2ft ones, if I had to use it in a 2 channel audiophile room where all the listening will be done while seated? Will it be the same if I install the modules on the back wall at ear-height?
Also, has anyone tried these on the ceiling - reflection points?
You can certainly get away with 2 feet tall but in most cased 4 feet would be better. It depends what your goals are. 2 feet tall should get the job done if you just want to scatter first reflections immediately behind you. Going to 4 feet will give you a larger sweet spot and potentially add a bit more liveliness to the room (but I don't know if you will notice the difference in ambiance).

Control rooms that use back wall diffusers (RFZ / Live End, Dead End designs) usually use big diffusers so they get a highly diffuse scatterback from the first reflections. Once a reflection has been efficiently diffused or absorbed, it's taken care of. In contrast, if the diffusers are small they might catch the first reflection right behind you, but there may be other rogue early reflections (e.g., 2nd or 3rd reflections) that bounce back to your listening position and reduce listening clarity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolida ➡️
So far, I made three numbers of the A1-LF last evening using 12.3mm MDF. Took an hour & fifteen mins to make the three. Very straightforward design & really inexpensive.
Tim, I cant praise the efficiency of the design enough. It has made the listening so much better. There is a marked improvement in instrument-definition as well as seperation & depth of soundstage. Dint quite expect so much from such a clean-cut design. Very impressed with the results. Total cost per piece comes to less than $10 (excluding the painting). I highly suggest the A1-LF to anybody interested in the DIY approach, as the design is so easy to implement.
I dont think any design out there could outbeat the A1-LF in terms of price vs performance vs ease-of-build. Great work Tim & many thanks once again...
Awesome! I'm thrilled that you found this design so efficient and I appreciate your great feedback!.
Old 12th July 2014 | Show parent
  #464
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blizt ➡️
This is mine:

http://i.imgur.com/PL8iPD6.jpg

10cm MDF 1,22m tall. I like how it looks, I might just leave it like that or paint it later, white maybe, I dont know...

My only concern, is that some of the cuts I made are not perfectly straight as I was using a jig saw machine (bloody hard to make a perfect line by hand with this), so I may have a millimeter deviation in some places here and there. I wonder if this can affect the diffusor performance...
Looks great. Don't worry about a millimeter deviation here and there. Small deviations like that only effect high frequencies which are outside the operating bandwidth of this diffuser.

You won't hear the difference.
Old 23rd July 2014 | Show parent
  #465
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🎧 5 years
Still working on all my room treatments, but am finally at the point of setting the cleats to hang my absorbers, super chunk wall-ceiling bass traps and the diffuser.

The diffuser turned out really well. Hopefully it will do its job as expected.
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-hangingdiffuser.jpg  
Old 29th July 2014 | Show parent
  #466
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
11 pieces , 170cm tall.
7 pieces for the back wall of my studio for A1-LF fraktal modulation array
4 pieces for the side wall
as i am a very unexperienced handycraftman it took me about 2 days for building and oiling.
kudos to tim perry - great and easy design
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-img_1230.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-img_1235.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-img_1239.jpg  
Old 29th July 2014 | Show parent
  #467
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBOMBER ➡️
11 pieces , 170cm tall.
7 pieces for the back wall of my studio for A1-LF fraktal modulation array
4 pieces for the side wall
as i am a very unexperienced handycraftman it took me about 2 days for building and oiling.
kudos to tim perry - great and easy design
Wow, that is exactly what I am looking to build, a seven panel unit for the back wall, and 2 or 3 for the side walls. Is the rear wall seven of the same units offset at differing depths?

Great job well done.
Old 29th July 2014 | Show parent
  #468
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hornguy ➡️
Wow, that is exactly what I am looking to build, a seven panel unit for the back wall, and 2 or 3 for the side walls. Is the rear wall seven of the same units offset at differing depths?

Great job well done.
the offset is 0-8-10-6-10-8-0cm , you can see it in the 3rd pic
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #469
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy81 ➡️
Still working on all my room treatments, but am finally at the point of setting the cleats to hang my absorbers, super chunk wall-ceiling bass traps and the diffuser.

The diffuser turned out really well. Hopefully it will do its job as expected.
Looks good! Best of luck with the rest of your room. It would be great to hear your thoughts on how it sounds when it's done.
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #470
Gear Addict
 
Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBOMBER ➡️
11 pieces , 170cm tall.
7 pieces for the back wall of my studio for A1-LF fraktal modulation array
4 pieces for the side wall
as i am a very unexperienced handycraftman it took me about 2 days for building and oiling.
kudos to tim perry - great and easy design
Thanks for sharing your photos of 7-module fractal modulation. I've not seen many photos of that configuration yet but I'm pleased to hear that it was easy to build.

Let us know how the wall-mounting goes!
Old 30th July 2014
  #471
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Arqen, do you have something up your sleeve for us?
I haven't built one of your designs yet, I considered it since I have the materials on hand, but no good location to mount.
Keep up the acoustics IOWs!
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #472
nms
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arqen ➡️
UltraTouch is nice stuff to work with and should work well for the superchunks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy81 ➡️
I am getting away from that product and going to UltraTouch denim insulation, R30 to be exact. Just got it yesterday and it is really nice stuff. The lab acoustic tests seem really promising for absorber use.
This is a really bad choice for thick traps, especially superchunks.

Which lab tests did you see that indicated it would work well for thick assemblies? If you came to this conclusion by looking at the absorption coefficients for the 3.5" and 5.5" thicknesses you may want to have a second look at that. The low frequency absorption takes a sharp nose dive after 3.5" and shows no significant LF absorption gains going beyond 4". This is because the gass flow resistance is too high.
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #473
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Jolida's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBOMBER ➡️
11 pieces , 170cm tall.
7 pieces for the back wall of my studio for A1-LF fraktal modulation array
4 pieces for the side wall
Nice work. Where on the side wall do u intend to mount? Also, I guess 3 pieces on the sidewall mounted with the 0-60mm-0 config would perform better than the four, unless by '4' u meant two on each sidewall...
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #474
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Rudy81's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms ➡️
This is a really bad choice for thick traps, especially superchunks.

Which lab tests did you see that indicated it would work well for thick assemblies? If you came to this conclusion by looking at the absorption coefficients for the 3.5" and 5.5" thicknesses you may want to have a second look at that. The low frequency absorption takes a sharp nose dive after 3.5" and shows no significant LF absorption gains going beyond 4". This is because the gass flow resistance is too high.
I found the following lab report, and several others from the folks at Acoustical surfaces. I'm not sure where you saw the absorption coefficient 'take a sharp nose dive', but I did not see that in any of my research. I did not, however, compare fiberglass with the denim insulation. After having used and worked with fiberglass, denim was terrific to work with and much safe IMHO.

I also ran a basic test of what my single absorber panels might do.
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-absober-test-mic-only.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-absorber-test-single-panel.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf R19Absorption.pdf (164.2 KB, 264 views)
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #475
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arqen ➡️
Looks good! Best of luck with the rest of your room. It would be great to hear your thoughts on how it sounds when it's done.
At my listening position, I honestly don't notice much difference. However, I'm sure anyone seated in the back room of the media room would benefit from having a diffuser behind them. Those seats are just a few feet in front of the rear wall.

Took some readings with a bare room and then after I hung the difusser and rear wall to ceiling super chunk.
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-diffuser-effect-left-channel.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-diffuser-effect-center-channel.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-rear-wall-completed.jpg  
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #476
nms
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy81 ➡️
I found the following lab report, and several others from the folks at Acoustical surfaces. I'm not sure where you saw the absorption coefficient 'take a sharp nose dive', but I did not see that in any of my research.
As I thought, that's a report for 5.5" batts of UT. If you would have looked at the absorption coefficients for the 3.5" batts so you had at least something to compare, you would have seen that the absorption coefficient at 125hz is 0.95 for the 3.5" batts and 0.97 for the 5.5". Essentially the gains are non existent once you pass 4".

On the other hand, 6" of OC703 gets you 1.19 at 125hz and 4" of RXL40 gets you 1.03.

Quote:
I did not, however, compare fiberglass with the denim insulation. After having used and worked with fiberglass, denim was terrific to work with and much safe IMHO.
Which is great, but not if the performance isn't there. You'd probably get better results just straddling a 3.5" thick floor to ceiling panel of UT than you would with superchunks. There's no reason at all to be worried about working with Rockwool though. It's plenty safe and easy to work with.

Ultra Touch is great stuff, but only when used in a single layer. The best way to use it is the 3.5" batts mixed with Rockwool or fiberglass. Its high gas flow resistance is well known among acousticians.
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #477
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🎧 5 years
nms, good information. Thank you.
Old 30th July 2014 | Show parent
  #478
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms ➡️
This is a really bad choice for thick traps, especially superchunks.

Which lab tests did you see that indicated it would work well for thick assemblies? If you came to this conclusion by looking at the absorption coefficients for the 3.5" and 5.5" thicknesses you may want to have a second look at that. The low frequency absorption takes a sharp nose dive after 3.5" and shows no significant LF absorption gains going beyond 4". This is because the gass flow resistance is too high.
Thanks for bringing this up. You're right that lower density absorption is better for very thick traps. The problem is, I'm not sure what low density fibrous materials are readily available for most people (other than pink fluffy, which is nasty stuff).

From the data I've seen, over about 8" medium density fibrous material (35 to 60kg/m3) like 703 and Roxul Safe'n'Sound tend to be less effective than lower density fibers.

I'd like to find some low density products that are economical (e.g., not sheep wool), and not fiberglass. Know of any low density, fire rated recycled cotton options?

Another thing that would be great to see comparisons of is medium density + air gap configurations vs the equivalent thickness of low density supertrap.

If only cost and acoustical performance are considered then pink fluffy provides good bang-for-buck for superchunks... but for health and environmental reasons it's a materials that I think we need to phase out.
Old 9th August 2014 | Show parent
  #479
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🎧 10 years


I painted them with a water based sealer and now I'm thinking leaving them like that. I kind of like the unfinished touch. What do you think?
Old 9th August 2014 | Show parent
  #480
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blizt ➡️


I painted them with a water based sealer and now I'm thinking leaving them like that. I kind of like the unfinished touch. What do you think?
I think it looks good... It gives it the white washed antique look.
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