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DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)
Old 28th November 2013 | Show parent
  #361
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🎧 5 years
I have started making 12 Leanfusers...

See Pics.
Nearest I could get to 10mm was 9mm in plywood.
I figured a couple of coats of paint would get it nearer to 10mm.
Everything else dimension wise is pretty spot on.
If anything the middle grooves on some are approaching 50mm rather than 60.

Now I have to decide where to place them in my rehearsal room...
I'll add a crude plan of where I was thinking of doing so.
Any advice would be great.

I'm waiting on a delivery of 12 panels of 600x1200 RPG 'pro foam' for the studio & currently have 5 self made rockwool 7.5mm deep wood framed panels on the ceiling. 600x1200 size.

Would placing the diffusers horizontal make any difference to perceived diffusion. Remember I'm new to this stuff : ) I'm exploring all aesthetic options for the rather small space

ProFoam - Acoustic Products

Ps, I have no idea why the photos load up and turn 90 degrees left...
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-netil-layout.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-photo-1.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-photo-2.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-photo-3.jpg  
Old 29th November 2013 | Show parent
  #362
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sticks ➡️
I have started making 12 Leanfusers...

See Pics.
Nearest I could get to 10mm was 9mm in plywood.
I figured a couple of coats of paint would get it nearer to 10mm.
Everything else dimension wise is pretty spot on.
If anything the middle grooves on some are approaching 50mm rather than 60.

Now I have to decide where to place them in my rehearsal room...
I'll add a crude plan of where I was thinking of doing so.
Any advice would be great.

I'm waiting on a delivery of 12 panels of 600x1200 RPG 'pro foam' for the studio & currently have 5 self made rockwool 7.5mm deep wood framed panels on the ceiling. 600x1200 size.

Would placing the diffusers horizontal make any difference to perceived diffusion. Remember I'm new to this stuff : ) I'm exploring all aesthetic options for the rather small space

ProFoam - Acoustic Products

Ps, I have no idea why the photos load up and turn 90 degrees left...
Hi Chris,

Nice work, and I think you've chosen a good room layout. I got the questions in your email but I'll reply to them here in case anyone else has similar questions.

First of all, if you make any more keep in mind that another alternative is 12.3 mm plywood. In the near future I will make an FAQ that covers this, but in the meantime I've explained the imperial version here

Ultimately, you can use either 9 mm, 12.3 or 12.7 mm material, but given the choice I would choose 12.3 mm because I've simulated it and verified that it has good performance.

Yes, I think the diffusers, as you've drawn them, will be effective in a room like this. However, they should be placed right-side up (not sideways) in most cases. This is because they only diffuse sound in one plane. If you place them normally, they scatter sound in the horizontal (left-right) plane. If you place them rotated 90 degrees, they scatter sound only in the vertical (up-down) plane. If they are mounted on your walls, diffusion in the horizontal plane is most often the priority.

The diffusers were optimized in a set of 5, so 5 is the default (but not the only) configuration. I recommend sets of 5 (or 7) where possible, because you can mount them using one of the "Profiled Modulations" given on the last 3 pages of the blueprints. I always recommend mounting them this way wherever possible, as it dramatically increases the performance. So be sure to check out the profiled modulations.

6 Module Versions
I've not tested configurations of 6, but without doing any testing, the most intuitive way to mount the 6 modules would be so that they form a convex arc. E.g., the six modules could be mounted with varying depth as follows:

[0, 5, 6, 6, 5, 0] cm or [0, 8, 10, 10, 8, 0] cm

Even better might be a configuration like one of these:

[0, 5, 6, 7, 5, 0] cm
[0, 7, 10, 9, 7, 0] cm

Where possible I usually try to avoid having side-by-side modules with the same height.

3 Module Versions
Finally, in the places where you use sets of 3, the best way to mount them is with the middle one sticking out 7 cm or 8 cm from the side modules. So it would look like one of these images:
Attachment 367723
Attachment 367724

Hope this helps!
Old 29th November 2013
  #363
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🎧 5 years
Hi guys,

I am building a 5 module array of half-height (2') leanfusers for my small, rectangular tracking room. If you look at the attached picture, I was thinking of mounting them above the absorbing panels on the left wall, near the ceiling.

The diffusers would be 6 feet away from any musician's ears, but as you can see in the photo they would be as close as 4 feet away from some mics...

Overall the room sounds pretty good and musicians enjoy playing in here, although there is a slight room mode issue at 550 hz that I'm trying to get rid of.

I want to keep a little 'air' in the room sound and not make it totally dead...

Any suggestions for the diffuser placement?

Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-img_1034.jpg  
Old 29th November 2013 | Show parent
  #364
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by theloniousgong ➡️
Hi guys,

I am building a 5 module array of half-height (2') leanfusers for my small, rectangular tracking room. If you look at the attached picture, I was thinking of mounting them above the absorbing panels on the left wall, near the ceiling.

The diffusers would be 6 feet away from any musician's ears, but as you can see in the photo they would be as close as 4 feet away from some mics...

Overall the room sounds pretty good and musicians enjoy playing in here, although there is a slight room mode issue at 550 hz that I'm trying to get rid of.

I want to keep a little 'air' in the room sound and not make it totally dead...

Any suggestions for the diffuser placement?

Thanks!
I think that placement will work. But, since you plan to install the diffusers so high up you may not hear the the direct effects of them. If the wall opposite the door is absorptive, the diffused sound could be largely absorbed before it gets a chance to influence the ambience you hear.

I'm curious... what kind of treatments do you have on the wall opposite the door?

Also, to get rid of the room mode issue you should install bass traps in the corners of your room.
Old 30th November 2013 | Show parent
  #365
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
There is a large broadband (rockwool) absorber panel on the wall opposite the door, you can see it in the attached picture. I'm actually going to be dropping it down 1.5 feet so there is absorbtion at ear level of the pianist.

One of the problems with the small room is that all the musicians are always close to a wall, which is why I've covered a lot of the surfaces with absorbing panels.

The room is basically a rectangle with an extra little corridor attached to it...that part of the room has more reflective surfaces. (Visible in second picture). I usually put omni mics up in that area if more of a distant room sound is desired.

The reason I thought a leanfusor array could work on the left wall is because a) the piano lid opens up towards that wall and b) since drums are set up in front of the piano and reflect off that left wall, they could benefit from diffusion as well.

Your comments are appreciated!
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-img_1042.jpg   DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-img_1039.jpg  
Old 1st December 2013 | Show parent
  #366
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🎧 5 years
Good point about the piano lid. I do I agree with how you've applied absorption to your walls in a small room like that, and I think the diffuser location you mentioned is probably the best place in that room. Otherwise they would be a bit too close to the musicians / mics.

Good luck with the build!
Old 1st December 2013 | Show parent
  #367
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🎧 5 years
Tim,

How high up should the 1200mm long diffusers go on my walls?

Walls are 2600mm high.

I'm likely going to have to use 4 sets of three with the middle panel out 7-8 cm.

Hope they will work well enough.

Thanks again,

Chris
Old 1st December 2013 | Show parent
  #368
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🎧 5 years
Mounting height for diffusers

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sticks ➡️
Tim,

How high up should the 1200mm long diffusers go on my walls?

Walls are 2600mm high.

I'm likely going to have to use 4 sets of three with the middle panel out 7-8 cm.

Hope they will work well enough.

Thanks again,

Chris
Hi Chris,

If it's a room where people will frequently be sitting while listening, I suggest mounting them so that the middle is about 145-148 cm (57-58") above the floor (based on the recommended height for mounting studio monitors). This way they will be useful for people both sitting and standing.

If it's a large room, or a room where people will only be standing, you can mount them higher. For example, the middle of the diffuser could be mounted at ear level while standing (E.g., that's about 165 cm (65") above the floor for a 5'-9" tall person).
Old 2nd December 2013
  #369
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🎧 5 years
Hi Tim and everybody,

We built and installed 5 half-height leanfusers for my studio today. They look and sound great! I can definitely hear a difference.

We actually had enough material for a 6th module. Tim - I know you optimized the design for an array of 5 - but I'm assuming if I add a 6th module this is not going to compromise the design. Correct?

Thanks so much for sharing this great design!
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-img_1043.jpg  
Old 2nd December 2013 | Show parent
  #370
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🎧 5 years
Hi Everybody,

Do you think I should place my diffusers dead centre on my studio walls?

4x4m room and 2.6m high walls.

theloniousgong,

Your diffusers look top quality!
What wood did you use?
Looks like furniture grade stuff.

Cheers,
Chris
Old 2nd December 2013 | Show parent
  #371
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by theloniousgong ➡️
Hi Tim and everybody,

We built and installed 5 half-height leanfusers for my studio today. They look and sound great! I can definitely hear a difference.

We actually had enough material for a 6th module. Tim - I know you optimized the design for an array of 5 - but I'm assuming if I add a 6th module this is not going to compromise the design. Correct?

Thanks so much for sharing this great design!
It depends how you mount them. Here's a quote of mine from a few posts back that tells you how I would deal with 6 modules:

Quote:
The diffusers were optimized in a set of 5, so 5 is the default (but not the only) configuration. I recommend sets of 5 (or 7) where possible, because you can mount them using one of the "Profiled Modulations" given on the last 3 pages of the blueprints. I always recommend mounting them this way wherever possible, as it dramatically increases the performance. So be sure to check out the profiled modulations.

6 Module Versions
I've not tested configurations of 6, but without doing any testing, the most intuitive way to mount the 6 modules would be so that they form a convex arc. E.g., the six modules could be mounted with varying depth as follows:

[0, 5, 6, 6, 5, 0] cm or [0, 8, 10, 10, 8, 0] cm

Even better might be a configuration like one of these:

[0, 5, 6, 7, 5, 0] cm
[0, 7, 10, 9, 7, 0] cm

For the best performance, I usually try to avoid having side-by-side modules with the same height.
Hope this helps!

Tim
Old 3rd December 2013 | Show parent
  #372
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🎧 5 years
Diffuser mounting height

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sticks ➡️
Hi Everybody,

Do you think I should place my diffusers dead centre on my studio walls?

4x4m room and 2.6m high walls.

theloniousgong,

Your diffusers look top quality!
What wood did you use?
Looks like furniture grade stuff.

Cheers,
Chris
Given the layout you posted before I think dead centre or higher would work. You have a low ceiling, so I think a better choice would be to place them higher than the centre of the wall. E.g., I would place the centre of the diffuser anywhere from 145 to 165 cm + up from the floor.
Old 3rd December 2013 | Show parent
  #373
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sticks ➡️
theloniousgong,

Your diffusers look top quality!
What wood did you use?
Looks like furniture grade stuff.

Cheers,
Chris
Hi Chris,

We used furniture-grade plywood. It's not cheap, but it is super solid and looks great.

Tim - thanks again for all your help! I will post more pics as we continue building.
Old 3rd December 2013
  #374
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🎧 5 years
Great! I look forward to seeing how it looks when the room is done.
Old 4th December 2013 | Show parent
  #375
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12ax7's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arqen ➡️

[...]
I usually try to avoid having side-by-side modules with the same height.
[...]
Hmmm...
...Is it actually possible that a proper acoustical decision like this might (seemingly) be intuitive?
heh
.
Old 4th December 2013 | Show parent
  #376
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 ➡️
Hmmm...
...Is it actually possible that a proper acoustical decision like this might (seemingly) be intuitive?
heh
.
Well yes and no. And not all decisions are proper . The goal is to reduce periodicity (to reduce lobing), while also making the overall structure deeper (to increase low frequency performance).

I know it was a generalized statement, but the underlying intention is to minimize periodic patterns in his array of 6 modules.

After doing lots of simulations with various configurations I've observed that varying the depth of these modules, in a strategic way, almost always increases the performance. Perhaps that's intuitive without even having to do the measurements, but I'm big on having empirical evidence.

I usually recommend that people use trial and error testing in Reflex to find the best configuration of modules, but with 6 modules it could be time consuming. So I gave him a couple intuitive recommendations that I believe will perform well based on patterns I've observed in the past.

Of course, I don't actually know whether [0, 8, 10, 11, 8, 0] or [0, 8, 10, 10, 8, 0] will perform better. The difference may not be very significant, and the best way to find out would be to test it using Reflex. Hmmm... I should keep my rabid and dangerous intuition on a tighter leash. heh
Old 4th December 2013
  #377
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🎧 10 years
Q: does modulating (while i certainly agree will improve performance, as you're essentially making each diffusor a 'well' in one giant overall diffusor) defeat the goal of 'slim/optimized'?

ie, couldn't you say-- split the difference of the [depth of the] highest mounted panel and design one that has a similar performance as the array (obviously using much bigger primes)? Therefore keeping with the 'slim' theme?

Not in any way denigrating what you've done here, i love the streamlined builds. Just that if one is to build a whole wall/array, couldn't it be done saving several inches/centimeters by building 'bigger' to begin with?

Hope that made sense. and of course, one would need to run further simulations to come up with as good a design. Just a thought that popped into my head
Old 4th December 2013 | Show parent
  #378
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🎧 5 years
Large sound diffuser vs small modular diffusers

Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh ➡️
Q: does modulating (while i certainly agree will improve performance, as you're essentially making each diffusor a 'well' in one giant overall diffusor) defeat the goal of 'slim/optimized'?

ie, couldn't you say-- split the difference of the [depth of the] highest mounted panel and design one that has a similar performance as the array (obviously using much bigger primes)? Therefore keeping with the 'slim' theme?

Not in any way denigrating what you've done here, i love the streamlined builds. Just that if one is to build a whole wall/array, couldn't it be done saving several inches/centimeters by building 'bigger' to begin with?

Hope that made sense. and of course, one would need to run further simulations to come up with as good a design. Just a thought that popped into my head
Good question. Yes, you could certainly do that, and I often recommend that people do that if they have the resources to make a large, complex diffuser. Optimizing a large stepped diffuser is another story all together, but for people who want to build one, I usually point them to this N = 36 design optimized by the great Trevor Cox. However, this design is still almost twice as deep as Profiled Modulation 1 applied to the Leanfuser.

The advantages to smaller modular designs is that they are easy to build and highly flexible. You can create all kinds of configurations to serve various needs.
Old 5th December 2013
  #379
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🎧 10 years
Thanks.

Hey, (was looking at the Reflex site) Do you happen to know the difference between the "Basic" and the "Standard" versions of Reflex? (besides double the money!) I can't see any explanation of what either entails on their site...
Old 5th December 2013 | Show parent
  #380
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh ➡️
Thanks.

Hey, (was looking at the Reflex site) Do you happen to know the difference between the "Basic" and the "Standard" versions of Reflex? (besides double the money!) I can't see any explanation of what either entails on their site...
The only difference I see (under "details" on this page) is one extra feature for the advanced version: "Scattering coefficients can be saved directly as EASE wall materials (MAT)."

Perhaps that's valuable enough to acousticians to justify doubling the cost.

Unfortunately I don't have a tonne of experience with Reflex as I've only ever used the 30 day trail version for testing diffusers.
Old 5th December 2013 | Show parent
  #381
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🎧 10 years
Features - AFMG Reflex

"The Basic version has the following limitations:
Only one model can be loaded into the program at a time,
A maximum of 20 elements can be used in a model,
No export of data to an EASE material file."
Old 6th December 2013
  #382
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🎧 5 years
That makes more sense. Thanks for clearing that up Jens.
Old 6th December 2013 | Show parent
  #383
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund ➡️
Features - AFMG Reflex

"The Basic version has the following limitations:
Only one model can be loaded into the program at a time,
A maximum of 20 elements can be used in a model,
No export of data to an EASE material file."
Thank you.
didn't see that page.

Now, if i'm understanding #2 correctly, does that mean i can only do up to a 19-prime diffusor under the 'basic' license? [max 20 'elements']
or does 'elements' in this context refer to something else?
Old 8th December 2013 | Show parent
  #384
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh ➡️
Thank you.
didn't see that page.

Now, if i'm understanding #2 correctly, does that mean i can only do up to a 19-prime diffusor under the 'basic' license? [max 20 'elements']
or does 'elements' in this context refer to something else?
That's how I would understand it, but when I was using the demo version I could simulate multiple periods of diffusers, each having 35 wells. If each of those are an element, then the most complex diffuser I simulated had 175 elements.

Perhaps the demo gives you unlimited elements, but the basic license only gives you 20.
Old 8th December 2013 | Show parent
  #385
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Perhaps the demo gives you unlimited elements, but the basic license only gives you 20.
Yes, that`s how it works, I bought the basic version first and uppgraded later on.
Old 9th December 2013
  #386
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Reflex is a great tool and I've always thought it would be cool if there was an API for Reflex, so that programmers could integrate it with an optimization framework. This would lower the entry barrier for people to design high performance diffusers without doing manual trial and error... but of course, then the value of the software would go way up (and with it, likely the price).

And, it would allow less experienced companies to dabble in the sort design that RPG has pioneered, without really understanding how it works. Which could be a bad thing or good thing, depending where you stand.
Old 9th December 2013 | Show parent
  #387
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🎧 10 years
Yes, perhaps something similar to sketchup ruby scripts.

Regarding diffusor design, to me it seems that the main limitation for the end product often is limitations in manufacturing process and shipping cost.

Hence you get diffusors popping up on internet forums "made in the garage" with better qualities than the comercial counterpart.
Old 9th December 2013 | Show parent
  #388
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yeah, i could see affording the basic license, but i would want the functionality of the full program.
Seeing as i'm not in the business of selling acoustic gear, nor am i ever planning on it, it's just a too steep hill for experimenting/tweaking my room/ intellectual curiosity atm.

Thanks for the info fellas
Old 9th December 2013 | Show parent
  #389
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsal ➡️
Regarding diffusor design, to me it seems that the main limitation for the end product often is limitations in manufacturing process and shipping cost.
Yes, absolutely.
Old 10th December 2013 | Show parent
  #390
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Arqen's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsal ➡️
Yes, perhaps something similar to sketchup ruby scripts.

Regarding diffusor design, to me it seems that the main limitation for the end product often is limitations in manufacturing process and shipping cost.

Hence you get diffusors popping up on internet forums "made in the garage" with better qualities than the comercial counterpart.
I agree that that's certainly a product limitation, but in the grand scheme of things I think it's a good thing, and products simply have to adapt. If someone has the time, tools, skills and desire to build it locally, they should. It's usually better for your local economy and the environment if you DIY your treatments.

There is still a place for products because not everyone has the desire to build treatments... but the important thing is that the power is in the hands of the end user! The win-win-win scenario is for companies to offer free information to everyone (what we see daily in the forums), and offer products for the subset of people who would rather buy than build.
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