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Need Help Treating a Small Room
Old 18th September 2012
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Need Help Treating a Small Room

Hi All:

I am interested in treating my room so I can start to get some decent mixes that sound good outside of the room itself. Music type - 70's folk/pop rock.

My room has a standard 8' ceiling and is 9.83' wide X 11' long. The floor is wood parquet. And I just picked up a pair of Tascam VL-X5 nearfields.

I can build my own acoustic panels using 4" thick OC 703 and can buy Auralex tiles.

I was thinking about:
  • Four 12" X 8' acoustic panels for the corners.
  • One 2' X 4' acoustic panel (on the wall in front of me) centered on its side at ear level.
  • Two 2' X 4' acoustic panels (the side walls) on their sides at ear level centered with my ears.
  • One 2' X 4' acoustic panel on the ceiling between my monitors and where I sit.
If you could treat this room - how would you do it?

Thanks for your time and feedback.

BBC
Old 18th September 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
More surface area is needed to eliminate room resonance. I would add 4 more 2' x 4' panels to each wall and the ceiling.
Old 18th September 2012
  #3
JWL
Lives for gear
 
JWL's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Don't bother with 12" wide panels in the corners, that's not big enough to help you much in the bass frequencies, which is what you want in that area. You are better off with 4 - 2x4x4" panels than 4 - 1x8x4" panels.

RealTraps - Acoustic Basics
Old 18th September 2012
  #4
JWL
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JWL's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Also, I'd put a panel on the rear wall behind you before I did the front wall behind the speakers. More bass traps in wall/ceiling corners will help even more.

RealTraps - Rear Wall Treatment Strategies
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi OpusOfTrolls and jwl.

Thanks very much for your advice.

Much appreciated.

BBC
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
HermanV's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwl ➑️
Don't bother with 12" wide panels in the corners, that's not big enough to help you much in the bass frequencies, which is what you want in that area. You are better off with 4 - 2x4x4" panels than 4 - 1x8x4" panels.

RealTraps - Acoustic Basics
I agree. You will save money too. Wood is cheaper than fabric and if you are buying by the yard then you are good to go building separate panels and mounting them stacked on top of one another. Not to mention you will be supporting the 2 sheets of insulation this way with the frames. It is hard to explain but it will make sense when you lay everything out. I would also try to cover more on the side walls. don't be afraid to stack the panels till' they are 8' tall for early reflections on the side walls as well. Also, Try to design them with a rear frame that will provide a way to easily hang the panels as well as provide an air gap for better performance.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi HermanV.

Thanks for your response.

I appreciate the feedback.

BBC
Old 19th September 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
antstudio's Avatar
My room is about that size - 8x12 - but I've achieved a pretty good result with some heavy treatment.

Here are some details:
Small Room Treatment - MusicPlayer Forums

..ant
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi antstudio.

Excellent information.

Oh... just downloaded SketchUp. Going to see if I can build a sketch of potential treated room using the advice I have been getting from the awesome peeps here at gearslutz.

Thanks.

BBC
Old 19th September 2012
  #10
Lives for gear
 
GIK Acoustics's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hey BBC,

You've got some great advice up above. I would certainly agree that making your corner panels 2' wide instead of 1'. It is twice the amount of insulation, but would provide likely more than twice the results.

I would also consider getting some panels for use on the back wall as well. Most rooms have a pretty "boomy" back end and some thicker 6-8" trapping can do well in the back.

Don't forget wall-to-ceiling corners are also useful hotspots to trap - there aren't only 4 corners in a room!

And considering all walls are hard surfaced, you will probably have quite a bit of flutter echo. You can use the foam you mentioned to tame flutter echo, or just simple 2" thick absorbers if its more cost efficient for you.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi Alexander.

Thanks for your advice.

I started using SketchUp (thanks to antstudio), and now that I have my head around how it works (well for the most part) - I plan to post 3D pics of potential room treatment tonight (draft 1).

From there - I hope folks here will continue to help me with this project (tell me what to add, what to take out, move this here, turn this that way, chop this in half, etc...)

I will continue to post new 3D pics as the design evolves.

Very excited about this project and getting help from the awesome peeps in this forum.

BBC
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi All.

Thanks for your advice so far.

Below is first draft of room treatment using SketchUp. My wife caught a glimpse of this earlier and thinks I am insane.

I am not sure how to tackle the entrance to the room.

There is a ceiling fan in the middle of the room. Should I get rid of it?

Please let me know how to improve (what to add, what to take out, move this here, turn this that way, chop this in half, etc...).

Thanks a ton.

BBC

Draft 1 - Top View:



Draft 1 - Front Corner:



Draft 1 - Back Corner:

Old 21st September 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
GIK Acoustics's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I think you may have a little more treatment than really necessary. I would work on making some of the traps thicker instead of that many traps. You will likely be making the room very dead. Even if you used a reflective surfacing, you would still be sucking a ton of life out of the mid range.

I would recommend hitting the four major corners, first reflections (ceiling included), and the back wall traps for now. After those are installed, you can test your room and see if and where you need more traps.

I would certainly also recommend testing the room prior to make sure you're making the traps big enough to effect the frequencies you need to. You can use this program to measure your room: Room EQ Wizard Tutorial Video
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics ➑️
I think you may have a little more treatment than really necessary. I would work on making some of the traps thicker instead of that many traps. You will likely be making the room very dead.
+1

Room Measurement After Consulting Gearslutz

https://gearspace.com/board/7237454-post133.html
Old 21st September 2012
  #15
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
I think you may have a little more treatment than really necessary. I would work on making some of the traps thicker instead of that many traps. You will likely be making the room very dead. Even if you used a reflective surfacing, you would still be sucking a ton of life out of the mid range.
Agreed, I think for the corner traps they are fine (and enough for a small room) but the back panels should be 6" if not 10" thick when DIYing.

Quote:
I would recommend hitting the four major corners, first reflections (ceiling included), and the back wall traps for now. After those are installed, you can test your room and see if and where you need more traps.
Once again agree don't mind the ones in the upper corners though. The room is pretty darn small and will need as much help it can get on the low end.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks GIK Acoustics, Jens and Glenn for your advice.

How should I deal with door way area treatment? Can I ignore it (the small door way square) and treat the room like it is a rectangle? I can make panel/trap near the entrance that moves around if need be (so I can get in and out with ease).

I will work on 3D model tonight with less panels and thicker back panels.

Also need to research room testing a bit.

Thanks again.

BBC
Old 21st September 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Always base your treatment plans on measurements. DonΒ΄t fix a problem that doesn’t exist, it might create new problems.
Old 21st September 2012
  #18
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For now I would not worry about the door way as there are a lot of other corner areas you can cover.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi All.

Thanks for your responses.

See draft 2 below. Removed one ceiling panel and three side panels. The two back wall panels near the entrance are now 8" thick OC 703. The rest of the panels are 4" thick OC 703. The 3 vertical corner panels are 8' X 2'. The rest of the panels are 4' X 2'.

Draft 2 - Room:



I'll start researching room testing tonight.

BBC
Old 21st September 2012
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For room testing I would use the following program and the following to figure out the best low corners.

Room EQ Wizard Tutorial Video
Video: Testing Bass Trap Placement
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi All:

Read a good bit. Still need to read more. I am going to order a measurement mic on the 1st.

Looks like the Behringer ECM8000 and the Nady CM100 are basically the same mic. Any preference?

Thanks.

BBC
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
GIK Acoustics's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbecutie ➑️
Hi All:

Read a good bit. Still need to read more. I am going to order a measurement mic on the 1st.

Looks like the Behringer ECM8000 and the Nady CM100 are basically the same mic. Any preference?

Thanks.

BBC
Hey BBC,

Either should be fine for the type of measurements you're taking. Go with whatever is cheapest.
Old 13th April 2013
  #23
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi All.

Okay. I am back to working on this room again (had other remodeling to do in the rest of the house).

I recently started building 2'X4' OC703 4" thick absorbers/traps (10 built so far). I also want to build 2'X4' OC703 6" or 8" traps for corners (but might do super chunks). I am thinking about building soffit around ceiling edge (with pink fluffy?). I have a closet behind my listening position that I am getting ideas on (may treat inside).

Attached is my first measurement file.

Below is pic of set up:



Below are waterfalls:







Monitors are Tascam VL-X5. Measurement mic is ECM8000.

I know I have more reading to do regarding measuring. Sorry - I just needed to get the ball rolling.

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

BBC
Attached Files

Last edited by barbecutie; 14th April 2013 at 04:58 AM.. Reason: New Waterfall Pics and Updated Measurements
Old 15th April 2013
  #24
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hi All:

Adding pic of the "All SPL" tab related to the waterfalls above:



BBC
Old 17th April 2013 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbecutie ➑️
Hi All:

Adding pic of the "All SPL" tab related to the waterfalls above:



BBC

Good God.

You have no low end in that room. Something I never understood about my room and I gave up. I would have thought small rooms would have a huge boost in low end. Would be interested to see if you can get it all back.
Old 18th April 2013 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destaana ➑️
Good God.

You have no low end in that room. Something I never understood about my room and I gave up. I would have thought small rooms would have a huge boost in low end. Would be interested to see if you can get it all back.
Hi Destaana.

Yeah. I am unsure if it is just my monitors or if I am just measuring in a bad spot (need to move the mic/speaker in/out/forwards/backwards,up/down,etc).

I am hoping for guidance as I work through this. I have ten 2' X 4' X 4" traps built (playing around with placement). I am also in the process of building some large floor to ceiling bass traps for the front corners and something deep that may cover the whole wall behind me.

Hopefully - it all goes well. If the people here at GS can't help me - then it was never possible (if that makes sense).

Thanks for your comments and time.

BBC
Old 18th April 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
gullfo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
are your monitors setting with the LF cut enabled? there are a lot of switches on the back and you should set them so nothing is being cut or boosted at this point...
Old 19th April 2013 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gullfo ➑️
are your monitors setting with the LF cut enabled? there are a lot of switches on the back and you should set them so nothing is being cut or boosted at this point...
Hi Glenn.

Great suggestion! I will check the backs out tonight. I never messed with the switches and just set them up "as is" when I pulled them out of the box.

Thanks a ton.

BBC
Old 19th April 2013
  #29
Lives for gear
 
AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
you may also try pushing them closer to the front wall. Seeing you have a window there will lessen the 'bass boost' effect of being near the boundry, but you might see some improvement.
If that doesn't do anything or not much, try getting them as close to the front wall again, but also widen the stance a little to get them closer to the wall instead of window... if that makes sense. Try many movements, and measure at each. Try making them higher and see what changes, etc. Each time only change ONE variable at a time so you can see the trends and further pinpoint what is going on*.
Sometimes a matter of inches can make a huge difference.

*keep detailed notes (in REW) with descriptive file names so you can keep track of what is what.
Old 20th April 2013 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gullfo ➑️
are your monitors setting with the LF cut enabled? there are a lot of switches on the back and you should set them so nothing is being cut or boosted at this point...
Hi Glenn.

I checked the back of both monitors and everything is set to the off position.

Thanks again for the suggestion.

BBC
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