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Building a drum room for a music school
Old 9th September 2012
  #1
Gear Nut
 
trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Building a drum room for a music school

Hello all,
In my day job I work in a music school that specializes in the teaching of percussion instruments. So, drums, Vibes, Xylo and marimbas. Recent events has required us to move to a new location in a 30 floor builing. We will most likely to be situated in a unit on 10+ floor.
The current task is to design and construct a drum room, the loudest room on our facility. at teaching time, we would have at the very most 8 sets of drums being played at the same time. The good thing is, The building floor plan is in the shape of a X. the unit we have occupies one wing of the "X", We dont share walls with the tenants to the left or right of us. We are surrounded by exterior walls. outside of the left and right walls are a few meters of air outside of the building until the adjacent wing.
Now, The drum room will be a room within our unit. I intended to use a 2-leaf system To surround the room. one of the leaves can be build out of brick and cement to add mass, probably 4" thick. The other leaf will have to be staggered drywall to conserve weight. At the moment, I intend to put the drywall as the inner leaf, and the brick wall as the outer. Is there potential flaws to this design? Is there any benefit to put the brick wall as the inner leaf?
The second question is regarding insulation in the wall and ceiling. While I happen to be in a country where most studio building supply are difficult to come by, we do have glass fiber in ample supply. to insulate the space between walls and in the ceiling, should I deploy the fluffy kind or the rigid kind like the 703 for effective reduction?

All suggestions and comments welcome. Thanks in advance for all your help.
Old 9th September 2012
  #2
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kasmira's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't have the answers to most of your questions, BUT I do know: fluffy fiberglass, not rigid for isolation.

I would recommend picking up Rod Gervais' book, Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros. Pretty much half the book is on isolation. Tons of assembly diagrams and great explanations, what to do and what to avoid.

Edit: just noticed you posted in the thread about his book...nevermind then.

Sent from my SCH-I535
Old 9th September 2012
  #3
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trymonlam ➑️
Hello all,
. at teaching time, we would have at the very most 8 sets of drums being played at the same time. .
Probably the most frightening statement I've ever read on GS.
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #4
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trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks ➑️
Probably the most frightening statement I've ever read on GS.
Hahahaha. Personally some of the stuff at the "stupid things during session" thread is more scary than this.
At any rate, I can greatly scale the volume out of that room when needed by placing silencing pads on the drums to kill sound. I want to build a room with the best Isolation I can manage, so If I need it to go boom, it can handle the SPL without my neighbors in nearby units knocking on the door with a baseball bat.
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Nut
 
trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasmira ➑️
I don't have the answers to most of your questions, BUT I do know: fluffy fiberglass, not rigid for isolation.

I would recommend picking up Rod Gervais' book, Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros. Pretty much half the book is on isolation. Tons of assembly diagrams and great explanations, what to do and what to avoid.

Edit: just noticed you posted in the thread about his book...nevermind then.

Sent from my SCH-I535
Thanks for the comment. Fluffy ones then.
Rod's book is helpful. However, I feel I want more info than what's on offer. variations on different systems, etc.
Hopefully Rod can chime in here as well.
Old 9th September 2012
  #6
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I'm just curious - what are the approximate dimensions for your drum room? I know you are talking about a room-within-a-room (good plan) but I'm wondering if you have available height to start with a floating slab to build your inner room on?

It looks like you will just be using the room for teaching - not recording? If that is correct - and you have enough height - you can build in quite a bit of overhead absorption and make it a less abusive room for unprotected ears when all stations are in use simultaneously - I'll just call that "Mahem Mode". I did a similar room mod for a high school drum room that had 14' of available height and an instructor begging for large SPL reduction. His budget was limited so I put in a drop ceiling at about 10' height and filled about three-fourths of the slots with an open acoustical tile. The other quarter were filled with metal vent tiles and then above all that, we put in over 3' of the fluffy fiberglass, using the metal roof trusses to suspend the upper half so its mass wouldn't compress the lower half. That really dried the room up, lowered the room decay time way down, etc. With minimal wall treatment to kill flutter and some rugs under most of the instruments, the room had great speech intelligibility and everyone was happy. Well, I did the work as a volunteer and got lots of fiberglass itchies, so I wasn't totally happy.
Old 9th September 2012
  #7
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Any pictures of what you did (Syncamorea)?

Mesh drumheads--are they of any use in a teaching environment or do they just not give the responsiveness of a normal drumhead for learning purposes?

I've got an acoustic set and an electric set. But haven't tried the other options myself-so thought I'd ask.

For teaching purposes, how do you hear what each student is doing with 8 sets at once?
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #8
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks ➑️
Any pictures of what you did (Syncamorea)?
I should still have a few taken with a film camera - this was done in the pre-digital days. Problem is, I have thousands of photos in albums and they are all stored away in the attic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks ➑️
For teaching purposes, how do you hear what each student is doing with 8 sets at once?
I'm not sure I'd want to hear all that at once.
Old 9th September 2012
  #9
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avare's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
How much isolation do you need? Concrete-drywall double leaf is not effective enough at low frequencies, which drums put out. Look at IR-586 and consider double 4" concrete. That leaves the questions of floor, ceiling and flanking.

There is a spot in the profile for your location.

Andre
Old 9th September 2012
  #10
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Some are blessed to live in climates where attic storage is temperate and humidity isn't a problem for storing photos in an attic. The rest of us probably should find other places for storage.

Part of me is thinking that the acoustical questions being asked go not only towards preserving neighborhood peace, but also affect how the teachers will be able to function with 8 sets going at once.

Build two 4" thick concrete walls on the 10+ floor of an existing building....how much weight is that? Can you get concrete pumped to that level or does this take one of those concrete buckets delivered by a crane?
Old 10th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea ➑️
I'm just curious - what are the approximate dimensions for your drum room? I know you are talking about a room-within-a-room (good plan) but I'm wondering if you have available height to start with a floating slab to build your inner room on?

It looks like you will just be using the room for teaching - not recording? If that is correct - and you have enough height - you can build in quite a bit of overhead absorption and make it a less abusive room for unprotected ears when all stations are in use simultaneously - I'll just call that "Mahem Mode". I did a similar room mod for a high school drum room that had 14' of available height and an instructor begging for large SPL reduction. His budget was limited so I put in a drop ceiling at about 10' height and filled about three-fourths of the slots with an open acoustical tile. The other quarter were filled with metal vent tiles and then above all that, we put in over 3' of the fluffy fiberglass, using the metal roof trusses to suspend the upper half so its mass wouldn't compress the lower half. That really dried the room up, lowered the room decay time way down, etc. With minimal wall treatment to kill flutter and some rugs under most of the instruments, the room had great speech intelligibility and everyone was happy. Well, I did the work as a volunteer and got lots of fiberglass itchies, so I wasn't totally happy.
probably the room will be 14ft x 20ft x 10ft.
I am not confident on the ceiling height. Here many building are low in ceiling, unless you are talking about factories or any facilities with an idustrious past.
In most case, I do not intend to record within that room, unless the actual live room is for any reason unavailable at tracking time. I do intend to give a few IOs for this drum room, just in case I need to use it.

Sir, I am very curious about the work you mentioned. So you placed metal mesh tiles on the ceiling, and keep a large amount of glass fiber on top. So in essense it is just open glass fiber underneath the roof. were you able to figure out if this would be more advantageous than placing gypsum drywalls instead of tiles on the ceiling?

I am attaching a layout.
The bigger layout is the whole floor. we have unit A and B. The 2nd pic is the layout of our unit. The marking on there is in millimeter.
Attached Thumbnails
Building a drum room for a music school-haohan.jpg   Building a drum room for a music school-30060.jpg  
Old 10th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks ➑️
Any pictures of what you did (Syncamorea)?

Mesh drumheads--are they of any use in a teaching environment or do they just not give the responsiveness of a normal drumhead for learning purposes?

I've got an acoustic set and an electric set. But haven't tried the other options myself-so thought I'd ask.

For teaching purposes, how do you hear what each student is doing with 8 sets at once?
Thanks for the comment.
Mesh heads, while they do give similar response to a real drumhead, the problem with those is that it's too silent. barely any sound come from those. so you instant go from having too much sound, to no sound at all.
Well, in our classroom, there is a lead teacher, and 1 or 2 assistant teacher to help students. with the 2 combined, they have a very good idea of what's going on.
Old 10th September 2012 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Nut
 
trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare ➑️
How much isolation do you need? Concrete-drywall double leaf is not effective enough at low frequencies, which drums put out. Look at IR-586 and consider double 4" concrete. That leaves the questions of floor, ceiling and flanking.

There is a spot in the profile for your location.

Andre
Hello Andre,
Nice of you to chime in. been reading your post here for a long time. Thank you for a wonderful education.
The current situation is, The floor in the unit can not support the weight of double concrete walls. so, my intention is to build brick + drywall double leaf system first, and figure out how many drum sets can be played simultaneously to not bother any neighbors. If only 3 sets can be played at the same time, then I will put silensing pads on all the other drums so the total level outside of the rooms are acceptable.
Old 10th September 2012
  #14
Gear Nut
 
trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Those of you who feels like taking a crack drawing out walls on the layout, go right ahead. The main entrance are to the south. Basically, the school requires a drum room, a live room which doubles as teaching room, as well as control room. Aside from the functioning rooms above, an office space is and a small reception area are required as well.
Old 10th September 2012 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trymonlam ➑️
Sir, I am very curious about the work you mentioned. So you placed metal mesh tiles on the ceiling, and keep a large amount of glass fiber on top. So in essense it is just open glass fiber underneath the roof. were you able to figure out if this would be more advantageous than placing gypsum drywalls instead of tiles on the ceiling?
About 75% of the slots were filled with "acoustical tiles" which are a porous panel that is pretty common is offices and other businesses. They are made out of a fibrous material, sort of like these:

AlphaSorb Noise Canceling Fabric Ceiling Tiles | Acoustical Solutions, Inc.

although the ones I used were low tech comparatively.

The other slots were filled with metal panels that had ~5mm holes covering about 50% of the surface. Fiberglass batts were stacked over all of these drop ceiling panels. Before we even put in the drop ceiling frame, we filled the overhead truss gaps with fiberglass batts, suspended by wires run truss to truss.
Old 10th September 2012
  #16
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avare's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You have large windows in the space???

Andre
Old 11th September 2012
  #17
Gear Nut
 
trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The middle portion to the north does have very large window. I intend to place the drum room to the west.

Sent from my XT883 2
Old 19th October 2013
  #18
Gear Nut
 
trymonlam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sorry to wake up a old thread. Just trying to give conclusion to the sound proofing project of the drum room.
After a suspended ceiling, double walls, elevated floors and 600-700kgs of fluffy fiberglass rolls later, the project was complete, with very good results.
During teaching time, with the doors closed(1 steel door to the drum room, 1 wooden door in front of the corridor to the drum room) and 8 drums going at the same time, the sound level at the reception area are very mild, equate to that of a medium volume conversation in a civilized manner. We are very happy with the results. The incredible things is, the neighbors on top, below, and next to us hears nothing. Not one complaint had come from any of them.
So there. a conclusion. Thank you all for your comments, they are much appreciated.
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