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A different way of treating a room
Old 28th August 2012 | Show parent
  #151
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Bjorn Omholt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
In my opinion it's not that difficult when it comes to accuracy. What people prefer is another matter. Anything other then accuracy in a control room makes no sense to me.

For a listening/hifi setup one can do whatever pleases. Personally I've found out that I prefer LEDE/RFZ for listening too. It combines a sharpness of image and localization and spaciousness from lateral diffusion. Other designs only give one of these and IMO colors the sound.
But I admit I don't like absorping sidewalls (especially when they're close) too much. It gives that headphone feeling. Redirecting the energy seems to be the best way to treat sidewalls.
Old 28th August 2012 | Show parent
  #152
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jim1961's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusor.com ➡️
Hi Jim
Its all about to give the slow computing brain a "extra chans" if the goal is criticall listening and to hear everything in a recording The "extra chans" created by room reflections must be a broadband (from 250Hz ) copy of the direct sound and have a short isd gap of 5-6 ms
Under these conditions will the brain expose masking effects that strong transients otherwise cause The direct sound from the loudspeakers dominates perceptually and the room interferes minimally with the spatial, temporal and timbral cues embedded in the direct sound
This conditions rules out broadband diffusors of many reasons (smearing soundstage etc) and soft absorbers
SMT solution is a game changer ,a broadbanded time delay line module Just one (600mm wide and 180-250mm depth) module create the delayed broadband "information" that expose timbre , details and replace the listening room acoustic with the recording room
Instead of sitting infront of a computer and try to find the best diffusion coefficient I concentrated on how to delay the sound as even in frequence and long as possible

The delay lines modules (Wing family) are open in both ends (half wave) with different path lenghts (all begun many years ago when I tryed to play around with half circles and polys with different diameters )
To achive the goal to rule out the listening rooms acoustic and take the listener to the recording room (doesent matter if its recorded in a church or outside) all first reflection points must be covered
The psychoacoustics behind the S-field was explained by Lennart Nilsson (30 years in the field with over 1000 references LN Akustikmiljö AB) at a Highend show in Stockholm (febr 2012 Sheraton Hotel)

Lennart started with saying, if you think you listen to uncompressed music you are wrong and pointed to the
brain :-)

So Jim if you want to know more* I can put you in contact with some of the most wellknown golden ears in US (both Proaudio and Highend musiclovers ) that have experienets the S-field created by the Wings and Varitunes.
Best
Matts
*[email protected]
www.performanceacousticslabs.com
SMT AB
Would a ETC response about like this be about what you are saying?

A different way of treating a room-etc-right-08-28-loveseat.jpg
Old 30th August 2012 | Show parent
  #153
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
If critcal listening means expose everything in the recording and take you to the tracking rooms acoustics (erase the influence of the listening room ) the answer is no
Instead we need a room in balance and reflections broadbanded time delayed as long and even as possible Then we end up in the spaciousness field
Ex from a 25m2 room, directional speakers
The Lawn of reflections create pinknoice in time



To achive this spaciusness sound field in a small room you need single modules were each module (this example V-Wing ) create broadbanded temporal diffusion just in front of the module You can see it like pink noice bursts like this and they should cover all first reflection points ,250mm deep and almost 5ms delay with low and even absorbtion



23 wings spread out in a 25m2 room . MBL omnidirectinoal speakers



Over the years I have noticed that the normal threshold for reflections is ruled out Its just the s-field that moves up and down in level (even bigger rooms with reflections -30dB have the same acoustic feeling )

We have now turned the listening rooms reflections into something that activate the brain to expose different time masking effects due to strong transients (check masking Perceptual Audio Demonstrations)

and better hear the acoustics in the tracking room , timbre and details in acoustic instruments and voices

The S-field concept is very easy to test ,just put wings on all wall reflection points with 1.2m high modules and listening sitting Then stand up so the ears come over the Wings and you here how you leave the S-field

Best
Matts
smtab
SMT AB
The Wing family is launched under september
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #154
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Bjorn Omholt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Would be appreciated if Matts can post some measurements of their diffusorers. I have hard time understanding how they can operate so deep as advertised.
Attached Thumbnails
A different way of treating a room-smt-diffusers.jpg  
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #155
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Bobecca's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwo ➡️
Would be appreciated if Matts can post some measurements of their diffusorers. I have hard time understanding how they can operate so deep as advertised.
I have absolutely no hard time to understand the S-field concept. Just have a look at the measurements in post 153.

Oh, don't forget to read the text in between

EDIT: BTW, why don't give a call to Lennart Nilsson. He can explain if you really want to learn.
Old 2nd March 2013 | Show parent
  #156
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwo ➡️
Would be appreciated if Matts can post some measurements of their diffusorers. I have hard time understanding how they can operate so deep as advertised.

The Wing family is well documented both in theory ,measurments and statements from wellknown musicians
Each Wing module use different long time delay lines and with a max lenght of over 80 cm they create temporal diffusion down to around 250 Hz As they are different animals then QRD PRD etc diffusors its not possible to optimize with BEM Instead hard but fun work to complete the family Welcome to Audio Data Lab - Audio and Acoustics did manage to calculate the finished S-wing in CATT and the result was spot on realworld measurments

Some measurments from 2013 Only Wing treatment
Decay time before (emty rooms) was 2-4 times higher Result valid above 250Hz just to show "the Wing effect"

10m2 10 std S-wing randomly put on the walls (no treatment in ceiling)

before


after





35 m2 67 modules from the Wing family (walls and ceiling)
roomlayout with comments:
new home for my Magico Q1






60m2 130 modules from the Wing family (walls and ceiling)





Wing modules create a S-field even in small spaces Its possible becouse each module work broadbanded in the nearfield (create pink bursts in time and minimize boundery effects )
CATT simulation ( Welcome to Audio Data Lab - Audio and Acoustics ) examples of the S-wing compared to flat wall
flat wall result left

4000Hz





250Hz



The reinforced paper S-wing is a low budget diy module (up to 50 packed on each pallet )
10 diy paper wings in the same 10m2 room (no ceiling treatment)

before




after


Ex of paper S-wing on walls and ceiling
Master Class – Tracking the Band, Part 1


best
Matts
Nyheter
Old 2nd March 2013 | Show parent
  #157
NLP
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🎧 15 years
30 and more helmholtz resonators in this room... have you considering to build membrane absorbers
Old 2nd March 2013 | Show parent
  #158
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Bjorn Omholt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Reverberation time of diffusorers in a small room.
Oh, now it's all clear.
Old 3rd March 2013 | Show parent
  #159
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gullfo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusor.com ➡️
35 m2 67 modules from the Wing family (walls and ceiling)
new home for my Magico Q1
now just get some serious floor to ceiling speakers in that room...
Old 3rd March 2013 | Show parent
  #160
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Bobecca's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm very impressed of the Magico room. Good job using HH resonators to get the result in that room. That suckout was huge and now it is flat

Fantastic achievement!!
Old 3rd March 2013 | Show parent
  #161
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johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hey guys

Anyone ever notice that every proponent of this system uses the phrase "suck out"?, and that no one else in acoustics uses the phrase "suck out"?

Strange no?

Miss you guys
Old 3rd March 2013 | Show parent
  #162
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndykstra ➡️
Hey guys

Anyone ever notice that every proponent of this system uses the phrase "suck out"?, and that no one else in acoustics uses the phrase "suck out"?

Strange no?

Miss you guys
lmfao.........
Old 3rd March 2013 | Show parent
  #163
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
To my laymen eyes, and i could be wrong... but, does it not seem someone made a product first, and then came up with some elaborate explanation/theory?

30 of them seems like some serious coin. With that coin, i could just build a bigger room!
Old 3rd March 2013 | Show parent
  #164
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh ➡️
To my laymen eyes, and i could be wrong... but, does it not seem someone made a product first, and then came up with some elaborate explanation/theory?

30 of them seems like some serious coin. With that coin, i could just build a bigger room!
A BIG +1
Old 3rd March 2013 | Show parent
  #165
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Bjorn Omholt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The cables are the weak link here.
At least the thought fits perfectly with everything else that's been done.
Old 4th April 2013 | Show parent
  #166
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Diffusor.com

So how good are diffusor.com products? Well I have the answer! They ROCK!!! :D

Our studio "RamPac" is located in the center of Stockholm, which we recently moved in to. It's inside a studio complex and our room is approximately around 20m2. The problem was that we had seriously bad sound. We couldn't do any good productions or mixes. I bought a couple of Event Opal speakers but still our mixes didn't translate any good, actually they sounded crap. The room contained an old vocal booth that wasn't any good either.

I contacted Diffusor and met with them at our studio.
Since we can use a 20m2 recording room next door we decided that we could do without the vocal booth in our room. Instead they suggested we build a wall to trap the bas. Said and done, we tore down the vocal booth and build the wall. Huge improvement! Second we got the Diffusor starter kit, now it started to sound good! Still we needed to "tune" the room so Diffusor came and visited again. It took about one hour of tuning and trying different setting but when we where done, I can seriously say our room rocks!!! The frequencies are now near flat, we went from 18db boost at around 46hz to flat. Our mixes are now translating and probably never sounded this good before! Diffusor is definitely worth checking out if you need to treat your room! I'll post some pics if anyone is interested!

Cheers
Johan Ramström

https://www.facebook.com/RamPac
Old 4th April 2013 | Show parent
  #167
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Bobecca's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanpop ➡️
So how good are diffusor.com products? Well I have the answer! They ROCK!!! :D

Our studio "RamPac" is located in the center of Stockholm, which we recently moved in to. It's inside a studio complex and our room is approximately around 20m2. The problem was that we had seriously bad sound. We couldn't do any good productions or mixes. I bought a couple of Event Opal speakers but still our mixes didn't translate any good, actually they sounded crap. The room contained an old vocal booth that wasn't any good either.

I contacted Diffusor and met with them at our studio.
Since we can use a 20m2 recording room next door we decided that we could do without the vocal booth in our room. Instead they suggested we build a wall to trap the bas. Said and done, we tore down the vocal booth and build a double wall (after diffusor design) 60cm from the back wall and 30cm from the walls to the left and right. Huge improvement! Second we got the Diffusor starter kit, now it started to sound good! Still we needed to "tune" the room so Diffusor came and visited again. It took about one hour of tuning and trying different setting but when we where done, I can seriously say our room rocks!!! The frequencies are now near flat, we went from 18db boost at around 46hz to flat. Our mixes are now translating and probably never sounded this good before! Diffusor is definitely worth checking out if you need to treat your room! I'll post some pics if anyone is interested!

Cheers
Johan Ramström

https://www.facebook.com/RamPac
Hello...

Nice to hear that it turned out well for you. Some pictures would be great, if possible some measurements of the room.

I myself use products from diffusor.com and I know how a room ROCKS when it comes to his diffusers and Helmholtz devices. He is the best

One hour to tune, that is
Old 4th April 2013 | Show parent
  #168
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SörenHjalmarsson's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndykstra ➡️
Hey guys

Anyone ever notice that every proponent of this system uses the phrase "suck out"?, and that no one else in acoustics uses the phrase "suck out"?

Strange no?

Miss you guys
Well, well... Look what the cat dragged in... We miss you too buddy, it really sucked when you got sucked outta here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johanpop ➡️
Our mixes are now translating and probably never sounded this good before!
That sounds just wonderful Johan, congrats!


Gött Mos!
/Sören
Old 6th April 2013 | Show parent
  #169
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
RamPac studio

Here's a pic I took the other day. I'll take a more overview pic next week and measurements as well!
Attached Thumbnails
A different way of treating a room-rampacsstudio.jpg  
Old 6th April 2013 | Show parent
  #170
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Bobecca's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanpop ➡️
Here's a pic I took the other day. I'll take a more overview pic next week and measurements as well!
Looks nice and clean
Old 6th April 2013 | Show parent
  #171
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johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanpop ➡️
Here's a pic I took the other day. I'll take a more overview pic next week and measurements as well!
dig the Opals! Looks nice
Old 6th April 2013 | Show parent
  #172
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johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SörenHjalmarsson ➡️
Well, well... Look what the cat dragged in... We miss you too buddy, it really sucked when you got sucked outta here.
Gött Mos!
/Sören
I still poke in on my subscribed thread occasionally.

I miss aspects of this place too. You're one of em
Old 7th April 2013
  #173
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SörenHjalmarsson's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndykstra ➡️
I still poke in on my subscribed thread occasionally.

I miss aspects of this place too. You're one of em
Thanks Dyk, that's very heart-warming <3
Old 13th April 2013 | Show parent
  #174
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boggy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusor.com ➡️
...........
before

............
before


............
As I can see on the graphs named as "before", in the "empty" room which you use for measurements, you already have (very) strong ( but reflective) bass treatment.

Can you describe it additionally?

Old 24th April 2013 | Show parent
  #175
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh ➡️
To my laymen eyes, and i could be wrong... but, does it not seem someone made a product first, and then came up with some elaborate explanation/theory?

30 of them seems like some serious coin. With that coin, i could just build a bigger room!
Seems I have to correct you here, broadband time delay lines have been on my mind since I designed my first S-field room 12 years ago

All started with this SMT invention almost 15 years ago



I just had to find a way to illuminate my different diffusor modules and the result was the 12 sided polyhedron
It become a world std very soon sold by B&K as a spin effect
SMT have the EU wing coin and asked for a US design patent wing coin
Matts
SMT AB
Old 24th April 2013 | Show parent
  #176
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jhbrandt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Matts,

I think that's a Dodecahedron Speaker... we (acousticians) have been using those for measurements for many years. You didn't invent them.

The photo is not clear. Maybe I misunderstood..

Cheers,
John
Old 24th April 2013 | Show parent
  #177
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boggy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt ➡️
.........
I think that's a Dodecahedron Speaker... we (acousticians) have been using those for measurements for many years. You didn't invent them.
.......
True.
+1

Dodecahedron speaker:
Old 24th April 2013 | Show parent
  #178
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jim1961's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by boggy ➡️
True.
+1

Dodecahedron speaker:
The ultimate in room excitement I take it?
Old 24th April 2013 | Show parent
  #179
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
No HF

Those Dodec's would be great at HF. 100-8K maybe.
DD
Old 24th April 2013 | Show parent
  #180
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jhbrandt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Jim,

I don't know that I would go so far as to use the term 'excitement' - Excitation, possibly...

"Jim! I'm a Doctor, godammit! Not a plummer!"

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Cheers,
John
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