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New Room for the Home Studio - need acoustics help
Old 4th February 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Exclamation Please Help! New Room for the Home Studio

So I see we have a lot brains in this room and I wanted to get some input on a room in my house that I'm fixing up to be the studio instead of my spare bedroom. The room is basically 20 x 22 with 12' cathedral ceilings. The Side walls are about 3.5' high and run up the 12' ceiling where its basically about a 3'x3' flat spot at the 12' mark. Here are some pictures.


Please excuse the mess as we are doing a kitchen remodel right now and had to bring stuff up from the basement to the attic.

Anyways, for sound dampening so it doesn't run through the floor I was going to put down 1/2" homasote followed by laminate hard wood floor. This will be sitting on top of 3/4" wood plank floor already. As for the walls I was going to put up 5/8" drywall and then make DIY Bass Traps / Wall mount absorbers out of OC 703 & 705 and some GOBOs for make shift vocal booth, etc. Now how do I go about configuring where the traps and wall mounts should go? Any other info that can help out acoustics would be great as well.

Thanks,
Lank
Old 5th February 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Good morning sir.

I see you started a thread spot on.

I took the liberty of plotting out a rendering of your room based on the specs you posted in the other thread. If you'd like I can email you a 3d version of the file, you'd need "google sketchup" to manipulate it yourself, it's a really cool free program.

I see from your photos, that some alterations would need to be made to my file. I think you said the flat portion is 1' square, but it looks larger than that in the pictures you took. Also, the window dormers, and presumably some sort of entrance need to be addressed.

It will help greatly if you describe what your intentions are for the space, meaning: recording drums? just vocals? all midi? just mixing, etc... these things will play a part in the planning.

Also, knowing a budget is always helpful.

Good luck!
Attached Thumbnails
New Room for the Home Studio - need acoustics help-new-thread.jpg  
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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🎧 10 years
just saw the changes to the ceiling... here's 2.0

for the record, you have some very challenging issues in there, that I am not qualified to answer, so hopefully some of the big brains show up... I just really enjoy playing with Sketch-up. If you want to learn it I'd be happy to help any way I can.
Attached Thumbnails
New Room for the Home Studio - need acoustics help-new-thread.jpg  
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➑️
just saw the changes to the ceiling... here's 2.0

for the record, you have some very challenging issues in there, that I am not qualified to answer, so hopefully some of the big brains show up... I just really enjoy playing with Sketch-up. If you want to learn it I'd be happy to help any way I can.
Dykstra,
Thanks for making the mock-up as I appreciate it. As for budget i'd say around 2k for acoustics. As for the room I'll probably use it for just about everything recording wise. I'll probably keep my spare room as the control room for now. I have it auralex'd up at the moment and it does ok but it's only 9 x 11 with 7.5 ceiling (drop ceiling) - Wood Plan Floors - Plaster walls. I need a bigger space and this is the best (in house) that I can do. I figured for vocals I could make a make shift vocal booth, maybe some for guitar? As for drums, well , I'd like to keep it open and hopefully get a good room sound but I'm not sure if I can or not. Hope this helps out the brains to give me some suggestions .

Lank
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
any ideas, tips, anything, anyone?

Lank
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
You mentioned something about a basement?
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Um, yea, I mentioned that basement saying pardon the mess in the attic. Due to kitchen remodel I had to bring all of our stuff (baby stuff, paint, etc.) from the basement to the attic for the short time being. I'm wanting to know if anyone can give their expert 2cents on how I should setup the acoustics in the attics via pictures / size / model that dykstra sketched up. Thanks.

Lank
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
the model is incomplete. if you'd like to pm me dimensions of dormers, false walls, where the entrance is etc...I'd be happy to include them in the model
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Dykstra,
Thanks a lot. I'll get all the measurements tomorrow during my lunch break and pm you so you can update the model. I appreciate all the help.

Thanks,
Lank
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here's a start:

questions-

is the wall with the entrance the only wall that doesn't yet have a completed false vertical wall, and if so, is your 22' measurement from where the false wall would be, or from the actual junction of the roof and floor? Does that make sense?

If it were me, I'd start by utilizing all of the space behind those false vertical wall for bass traping, and cover the studs with fabric and slats instead of drywall, see photo 2. Vary the width of the slats, and don't repeat the sequence on the other walls.
Attached Thumbnails
New Room for the Home Studio - need acoustics help-new-thread2.jpg   New Room for the Home Studio - need acoustics help-slat-walls.jpg  
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➑️
Here's a start:

questions-

is the wall with the entrance the only wall that doesn't yet have a completed false vertical wall, and if so, is your 22' measurement from where the false wall would be, or from the actual junction of the roof and floor? Does that make sense?

If it were me, I'd start by utilizing all of the space behind those false vertical wall for bass traping, and cover the studs with fabric and slats instead of drywall, see photo 2. Vary the width of the slats, and don't repeat the sequence on the other walls.
Dykstra why go with Slats over Drywall? Is it because it'll be more reflective and add to the room sound? Also what type of slats? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. I definitely want to understand the why and will definitely take your ideas in to complete consideration. Any else got any ideas?

Matt
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lank81 ➑️
Dykstra why go with Slats over Drywall? Is it because it'll be more reflective and add to the room sound? Also what type of slats? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. I definitely want to understand the why and will definitely take your ideas in to complete consideration. Any else got any ideas?

Matt
The slats will allow the sound to have access to the insulation behind them. You'd want to remove the facing from the insulation that is back there, or replace it. These large unusable triangular areas make a great bass trap. The slats would just be a 3/4" or so hardwood or plywood... you could paint or stain them as you see fit. I suggest randomizing the size and sequence from one wall to the next to avoid flutter echo between parellel surfaces. You won't be able to completely eliminate bare parellel surfaces, but it can be definately minimized using this technique.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➑️
The slats will allow the sound to have access to the insulation behind them. You'd want to remove the facing from the insulation that is back there, or replace it. These large unusable triangular areas make a great bass trap. The slats would just be a 3/4" or so hardwood or plywood... you could paint or stain them as you see fit. I suggest randomizing the size and sequence from one wall to the next to avoid flutter echo between parellel surfaces. You won't be able to completely eliminate bare parellel surfaces, but it can be definately minimized using this technique.
Dykstra,
Would I then not need any bass traps setup in the room since I'd be using the regular wall insulation as my bass trapping? Thanks.

Matt
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It would certainly reduce the need, but I can't tell you it'd be all you would need.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ethan, Glenn, and the rest of the clue. Any ideas as to how many bass traps, diffusors, etc. I would need and where? Anyone?

Matt
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here's a thread with some good reading on the effectiveness of slat absorbers:

Helmholtz Resonators

AS always, there's more math involved than I expected...

I still believe it'd be a good plan for your room, as there's going to be a lot of dead space in those coves.

Again, were I you, I'd research the lowest room mode needed to cover in your room, and devise a slat plan that will cover down to that frequency. I'd help you out there, but I have no idea how to calculate the modes of a trapezoid.

Drywall the cathedral portion of the walls/ceiling and see what you've got acoustically at that point, and devise an absorbtion/difussion plan when the bones are constructed.

Regarding your floor construction plans, I know at Ethan has said many times that he is not an isolation expert, and I think who you are really looking to chime in on this thread is Rod, DanDan, Andre Vare, etc... regarding that aspect.
Old 11th February 2009
  #17
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Another thought...

If you extend out the two vertical side walls that contain the window dormers, you could convert those dormers into iso/vocal booths. The result would be a 14' x 22' room, still quite usable. I rendered wood on the vertical walls without slats, because that takes forever to draw. Adding doors and isolating the dormers may not be feasible given your budget, but when someone who knows what they are talking about shows up, this is just one more idea for them & us to ponder.

Also, have you considered a closed curcuit video feed for visual communication between the floors?
Attached Thumbnails
New Room for the Home Studio - need acoustics help-new-thread-3.jpg  
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by lank81 ➑️
Any ideas as to how many bass traps, diffusors, etc. I would need and where?
As much bass trapping as possible. As for the rest, it depends directly on your budget.

--Ethan
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer ➑️
As much bass trapping as possible. As for the rest, it depends directly on your budget.

--Ethan
Given a 2k budget, you could drywall the entire room as is, put in a laminate floor and build "as much bass trapping as possible" and have a pretty usable space, that eventually you will probably want to re-do.

-or-

You can use the room AS IT STANDS today to do some tracking, and use the following months to read up on proper acoustic design, research a consise plan, stregthen your chops with your gear, and save money to execute said consise plan.

Using the basic and crude plan started on my last post, you have an estimated 276 sq. ft. of room surface allocated to slat absorbers, with (again roughly estimated) 432 cu. ft. room for insulation behind it, which again takes up little to no usable space in the room. Given that amount of absorbtion BUILT IN to the design, I hardly think you'll need "as much bass traps as possible". Having said that, 2k isn't going to be enough to execute a plan with two isolated booths and everything else that needs to go into a design of that scope.

Decision time
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
lank81's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Budget

I'm spending about 4k on new gear and I have the materials minus drywall to complete the project. I'd say another 3k for acoustic materials. I'm doing all the construction work with a buddy so that is free also. Basically for 3k what can I do acoustically? That's Bass Trapping, Abosportion, Diffusion. Any layouts on where everything should be would be great. Where should the bass traps be Ethan, I mean, I know the corners but anywhere else? Thanks.

Matt
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