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Online Room mode calculator
Old 2nd February 2009
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Online Room mode calculator

Hello all,

I have been searching around the net for a couple of hours and found quite a lot of roommode calculators, but none of these are really what I wanted. I am just looking for a program that will give me a list of all axial, tangential and oblique modes in a list and a graph (same as in the books of mr. Everest) that will tell me the seperation.

Does anybody know if it's out there?
Old 2nd February 2009
  #2
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Calculator

Here's a couple of nice ones.
Comprehensive http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm
Visual hunecke.de | Room Eigenmodes Calculator

DD
Sound Sound - Homepage
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Hi DanDan,

thanks for the links, I did find these and there not really what I want or they are quite unclear. Are there more people that are looking for an online room mode calculator which is more clear escpecially with the graph (it is so small on hunecke that I cannot see anything).

If there is more need for this I might start building one in PHP, if not I just use Excel to calculate it for now..

Let me know!
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by betserd ➑️
looking for an online room mode calculator which is more clear escpecially with the graph
Here you go, clear graph display, and clear explanation of the principles:

Graphical Mode Calculator

--Ethan
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
hey Ethan,

great, this is exactly what i'm looking for!

Will post some of the results in a new post with some questions. Thanks for the work you did there!
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

We aim to please!
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
hello guys;

i was wondering if anybody knows of any room mode calculator that takes into account monitor placement / listening position?

where can i find better info also about how to deal with the room's geometry and improve the sound at the listening position (don't care about how it sounds in the rest of the room)?
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

There are programs that attempt to account for all of those things, but they don't work perfectly for many reasons. One big reason is walls (and the floor and ceiling) are not infinitely rigid. So the effects of those boundaries cannot be accounted for. Also, non-rigid walls lower the resonant frequencies in a room further throwing off any calculations.

--Ethan
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Hard to Read

Unfortunately I can't see Ethan's, Macs here. I think I can safely assume it is very simple to use and powerful, built for purpose. Agreed, both the Golds and Huneke have issues. In Bob Golds, I am still not sure what the green negative means. I must ask him. Certainly yellow and red are warnings, so thats easy. The calculator does give the frequencies and location of modes, and many other issues if you take the time to extract the info. The Huneke is small etc. but it is great for showing where the pressure is high, thus suggesting bass trap placement. e.g. Sometimes trapping is best done on a wall or ceiling, rather than corners.
I have recently found a very simply one. I trust that knightfly won't mind me promoting it here. It is extremely easy to use and gives an immediate visual indication of how good or bad room ratios are. roomtune.xls
There is another that visually and numerically shows the influence of speaker and listener positions thanks to Thomas Barefoot. It's too big to upload here but search for Wall Bounce Calculator 2D. It takes both front and side walls into account, but not the ceiling.
Overall my point here is that there is no single calculator that excels at everything :-)
Each has it's special strengths. Ultimately the complex decisions are best left to a brain, taking on board all the different info inputs.
Perhaps it is worth remembering that measurement trumps theory and calculation.
Speaker and listener positions are best tweaked using FuzzMeasure, ETF, REW.
DD
Old 16th November 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
PaulP's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan ➑️
Perhaps it is worth remembering that measurement trumps theory and calculation.
Yes. Throwing some absorbers in corners and on walls may improve a room
but you won't know how or why, or whether or not the room could be even
better. I have a currently awful untreated room. I plan on making a wide
sweep of the room the way it is to get an idea of what's going on. I'll then
re-test after adding each stage of treatment to see where I'm going. I just
hope Room EQ Wizard is up to the task.

Paul P
Old 16th November 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Measurement

Paul P. I wouldn't sweat the Measurement thing too much. It is great at indentifying optimum positions and so on. However, you will not see a noticeable change in the curves with the addition of each trap. You will see a difference when you do something big, say two corners, floor to ceiling. The basic treatment plan, as much Bass Trapping as possible in corners, then RFZ, including overhead, remains the same. We don't need to Measure the problems to know where the corners are.
We all need convincing now and again. Run a mode calculator with your room dimensions. Pick the lowest three modes. Play a sine of each in your room, tweak the frequency slightly. Resonance is very obvious. Move about, to the back, up to the ceiling, to the corners. You will be amazed how strong the effects are. This will show you where the trapping should be and why you need so much.

DD
Old 16th November 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
thank you very much guys!

this is already a lot of info to digest and experiment with for a while...
Old 16th November 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan ➑️
Unfortunately I can't see Ethan's, Macs here. I think I can safely assume it is very simple to use and powerful, built for purpose.
Download a 30 day trial of crossover. I just managed to open the real traps program on my mac.

It looks really good! I am just doing an acoustics project for uni and this is just what I need! Thanks
Old 17th November 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Old 17th November 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Mode Calcs

Hi John, thanks for that. I strangely hadn't found those before. They are gone straight to my useful folder. I have tweaked knightfly's roomtune. I believe it is now much clearer to view and use, and I have generated a Metric one. This is an interesting little tool. It does just the one thing, but very visually.
RoomTune DD.xls
RoomTune DD Metric.xls
Enjoy, DD
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Dan,
THANKS!!
--John
Old 13th December 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Dan and all,

I keep upgrading these calculators and adding stuff, so check from time to time for new versions.

-- John
Old 3rd January 2010 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
Sorry to piggy back onto this thread if it doesn't apply..... what should be the spacing between the mode frequencies?

I know it's supposed to be even throughout, but at what point does one consider a frequency spacing to be an issue
Old 3rd January 2010 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djgizmo ➑️
Sorry to piggy back onto this thread if it doesn't apply..... what should be the spacing between the mode frequencies?

I know it's supposed to be even throughout, but at what point does one consider a frequency spacing to be an issue
You should get support for all the frequencies in the musical scale... well, LF up to a point. Your break point will depend on the room size. Basically you are only interested with the frequencies that function as waves and your room size will dictate how far up the spectrum they go.

Mode spacing differs greatly with frequency, so look at the frequency of the notes on the piano and make sure that they are supported as low as possible. You want to see a mode at or near each and every note.

Cheers,
Old 3rd January 2010 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
How to skin a cat

Many ways to skin a cat. John's explanation is very simple but very powerful if you think about it. Notes have very different absolute numeric bandwidth but are of course all equal in other respects.
Bob Golds has a complex way of weighting the issues with percentages and a colour scheme. Follow on to his explanatory notes. www.bobgolds.com room mode calculator
Basically though, it's a fraction or a percentage. While the frequency varies widely, the fraction doesn't.
DD
Old 10th January 2010 | Show parent
  #21
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I would assume all room mode calculators should give the same readings for a room dimension.
Old 12th January 2010 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzj ➑️
I would assume all room mode calculators should give the same readings for a room dimension.
Only in a perfect world, my friend, only in a perfect world.

Actually, that would depend on how the designer of the program rounded the figures. -- but they should be pretty close in agreement, otherwise, someone is wrong. heh
Old 23rd March 2010 | Show parent
  #23
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Frequency spacing.

I am currently studying acoustic engineering at university and my current assignment is room mode analysis. According to what my tutor has told me the problem frequencies are those that are within 5 percent of each other or those that are isolated by 20Hz or more. I am unsure of how accurate this information is, although Everest does state something similar.
Old 23rd March 2010 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Depending on the modal density. If density is high, spacing can be tighter. I have programmed my RoomModeCalculator & RoomModeCalculator to show alerts for spacing closer that .5%. You can change the percentage if you want to view options. I find the .5% useful for most rooms. If you are checking modes for a small room, especially under 1500 cubic feet (42 cu. m.) then you might want to bump the sensitivity up a little.

As for isolation or separation of modes; Ideally this should not exceed about 6% as that relates to the spacing between music notes. If you have modal spacing larger than the spacing between music notes, there will be no room support for those notes that fall between the modes.

Cheers,
John
Old 8th September 2011 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
wonder if there is any free room mode software that is capable of providing +/- db figures across the room freq range to allow preliminary understanding of absorption and diffusion quantities within a room.

or do the room mode calcs provide that and i'm not interpreting the data correctly?
Old 10th September 2011 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

^^^ What you want is room measuring software, not a mode predicting program.

--Ethan
Old 11th September 2011 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gouge ➑️
wonder if there is any free room mode software that is capable of providing +/- db figures across the room freq range to allow preliminary understanding of absorption and diffusion quantities within a room.

or do the room mode calcs provide that and i'm not interpreting the data correctly?
As Ethan said you want a program to test the room. Here is a free one.
REW - Room EQ Wizard Home Page
Old 12th September 2011
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
thanks guys,

does room measuring software also simulate the room during the design process. something that imports revit or acad models and allows testing to be by assigning materials, treatments etc in 3d.
Old 12th September 2011 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

Room measuring software tells you for sure what you have now. Room predicting software (a mode calculator), guesses at where the resonances will be. So you need both. Fortunately, both types of program are available free. All you need to invest is the time and effort to understand what they do and how to use them. Most people would rather pay $200 to not have to learn new stuff. heh

--Ethan
Old 13th September 2011 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
thanks ethan, i've been using the room mode calculators. starting the get into the room testing software.

but so i can understand more i'm looking for a way to calculate how much absorption/diffusion is required.

like when i look at a mode calculator, should i also be able to figure out how much absorption/diffusion should be "planned" for during the design process.

cheers
j
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