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speaker isolation: spikes or springs?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
speaker isolation: spikes or springs?

Hello,

I'm working on monitor isolation. Two options are to use spikes:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1PUGXUMQ&psc=1

or springs:
https://www.amazon.com/Audiocrast-Is...ct_top?ie=UTF8

there are also, these things, which might not be that much different than springs:
https://www.amazon.com/IsoAcoustics-...tronics&sr=1-2

Is one strategy better than the other?

Perhaps spikes are to prevent vibration traveling to a device (for example a turntable), while springs are used to prevent vibration traveling from a device (monitors). I'm not sure if this is the correct way to think about it.

Last edited by gearstudent; 4 weeks ago at 06:47 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent ➑️
Hello,

I'm working on speaker isolation. Two options are to use spikes:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1PUGXUMQ&psc=1

or springs:
https://www.amazon.com/Audiocrast-Is...ct_top?ie=UTF8

there are also, these things, which might not be that much different than springs:
https://www.amazon.com/IsoAcoustics-...tronics&sr=1-2

Is one strategy better than the other?

Perhaps spikes are to prevent vibration traveling to a device (for example a turntable), while springs are used to prevent vibration traveling from a device (monitors). I'm not sure if this is the correct way to think about it.
Spikes couple what is on them to the underground.
They are the opposite of isolation or, as we call it, decoupling.
If you have speakers standing on f.e. wobbly carpet spike can be used to couple the speakers to the firm ground. And they transmit vibration.
edit: audiophiles might differ from my opinion.That is because they are silly. :-)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
For years I've used a homemade decoupling "sandwich" between my speakers and desktop they sit on....and most have been hefty speaker, so the need for a stable platform was also required.
I obtained some 1" thick marble that was cut into 10" x 12" pieces. I then created a "sandwich" by placing a sheet of fairly inert rubber foam, one on top of and one below the marble pieces...and that's what I place the speakers on. I've had two sets of speakers mounted like that, each set on its own decoupling sandwich blocks.

Recently I bought some really big monitors...the Focal Trio 11...so I'm going to go with just them for now, since they have the option of turning off the big LF speaker, so no need for a second, smaller set...and with these, I'm going to use a pair of the decoupling sandwich blocks under each speaker, since they are way too big to fit on just one 10" x 12" block.

It works extremely well with the two layers of rubberized foam and the marble slab between them to decouple the speakers. The rubberized foam also has a tacky surface, so the speakers never move a hair on them, and the whole setup never moves on the desktops. It's super stable.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by miroslav ➑️
For years I've used a homemade decoupling "sandwich" between my speakers and desktop they sit on....and most have been hefty speaker, so the need for a stable platform was also required.
I obtained some 1" thick marble that was cut into 10" x 12" pieces. I then created a "sandwich" by placing a sheet of fairly inert rubber foam, one on top of and one below the marble pieces...and that's what I place the speakers on. I've had two sets of speakers mounted like that, each set on its own decoupling sandwich blocks.

Recently I bought some really big monitors...the Focal Trio 11...so I'm going to go with just them for now, since they have the option of turning off the big LF speaker, so no need for a second, smaller set...and with these, I'm going to use a pair of the decoupling sandwich blocks under each speaker, since they are way too big to fit on just one 10" x 12" block.

It works extremely well with the two layers of rubberized foam and the marble slab between them to decouple the speakers. The rubberized foam also has a tacky surface, so the speakers never move a hair on them, and the whole setup never moves on the desktops. It's super stable.
Weak, Miroslav.
This is not working your way although I congratulate you with the fact that your totally not the way to go way worked out by accident.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg ➑️
Weak, Miroslav.
This is not working your way although I congratulate you with the fact that your totally not the way to go way worked out by accident.
OK...please explain why it's "not working my way"...and then why it did "work out my way by accident"...???
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg ➑️
Spikes couple what is on them to the underground.
They are the opposite of isolation or, as we call it, decoupling.
If you have speakers standing on f.e. wobbly carpet spike can be used to couple the speakers to the firm ground. And they transmit vibration.
edit: audiophiles might differ from my opinion.That is because they are silly. :-)
thanks for the information!

so maybe spikes are meant to keep something firmly in-place, rather than to stop transmission.

so maybe springs or the isolation pucks are best.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by miroslav ➑️
OK...please explain why it's "not working my way"...and then why it did "work out my way by accident"...???
The idea is ok but you cannot just put rubber between the plates, you have to use a material that compresses the right way so you can calculate a resonance frequency to decouple the speaker.
No room for gambling here.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
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Abdalla's Avatar
From or to does not matter, spikes and springs isolate but spikes not at the cost of speaker stability so I would prefer those.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #9
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdalla ➑️
From or to does not matter, spikes and springs isolate but spikes not at the cost of speaker stability so I would prefer those.
I forgot that spikes isolate.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
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Starlight's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Bert, if spikes isolate then how come we are warned for room in a room builds not to make the mistake of allowing even a screw to touch both walls? My understanding, somewhat inferior to yours, is that spikes would still be a flanking path.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight ➑️
Bert, if spikes isolate then how come we are warned for room in a room builds not to make the mistake of allowing even a screw to touch both walls? My understanding, somewhat inferior to yours, is that spikes would still be a flanking path.
Oh yes, I forgot that :-).
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Abdalla's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight ➑️
Bert, if spikes isolate then how come we are warned for room in a room builds not to make the mistake of allowing even a screw to touch both walls? My understanding, somewhat inferior to yours, is that spikes would still be a flanking path.
Not for lower frequency vibrations as those require fairly large contact area to come through.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #13
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdalla ➑️
Not for lower frequency vibrations as those require fairly large contact area to come through.
This forum is wonderfull, I learn stuff every day here.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg ➑️
This forum is wonderfull, I learn stuff every day here.
As me you are to learn. If i understand a little, the goal is to block any more of the speakers.

The better and easy is to seal the stuff in the slab.

I'm running I must go save ants.

Do we ever know
Freestanding speaker decoupling system DIY on a budget question
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
Gear Addict
 
Hot Sauce's Avatar
 
Anyway...


I use sorbothane hemispheres. They seem to work very well and I have seen them recommended by several studio designers.

https://www.isolateit.com/collection...othane-bumpers

You can use whatever size you want, as long as the weight of the speaker is appropriately divided between them. Check the loading chart.

I used a higher number of 70 duro small hemispheres in an effort to reduce any "rocking" at high SPLs. My monitors are fairly heavy.

Not to say there aren't better or more comprehensive solutions to the problem, but if you are looking at things from a cost/effort vs benefit perspective, these seem to help a lot and are fairly simple to employ.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
hookes law
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg ➑️
The idea is ok but you cannot just put rubber between the plates, you have to use a material that compresses the right way so you can calculate a resonance frequency to decouple the speaker.
No room for gambling here.
It's not "just rubber"...it's a rubberized foam that is specifically used for acoustic dampening.
I came up with my setup long before manufacturers realized there was a market for speaker isolation products. It was easy to test out by simply using it...and it works extremely well. There is no transmission of any resonance through the decoupling sandwich block to the surface it's on.

Of all the speaker isolation products I've seen for sale at typical music/audio gear retailers...most are just plates on cheap pieces of foam, or some kind of large rubber feet...or some kind of springs approach.

Besides...my studio sits on an concrete slab, isolated from anything else...so there is no transmission concerns down through the floor.

Which products do you use/recommend where you've tested the material compression and calculated the resonance frequency to be sufficient to decouple any speaker?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by miroslav ➑️
It's not "just rubber"...it's a rubberized foam that is specifically used for acoustic dampening.
I came up with my setup long before manufacturers realized there was a market for speaker isolation products. It was easy to test out by simply using it...and it works extremely well. There is no transmission of any resonance through the decoupling sandwich block to the surface it's on.

Of all the speaker isolation products I've seen for sale at typical music/audio gear retailers...most are just plates on cheap pieces of foam, or some kind of large rubber feet...or some kind of springs approach.

Besides...my studio sits on an concrete slab, isolated from anything else...so there is no transmission concerns down through the floor.

Which products do you use/recommend where you've tested the material compression and calculated the resonance frequency to be sufficient to decouple any speaker?
You could use Agglomer or Sylomer etc.
These materials have been tested and documented, they come in variaties so you can use them without having to improvize.
What Hot Sause says also seems ok.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg ➑️
You could use Agglomer or Sylomer etc.
These materials have been tested and documented, they come in variaties so you can use them without having to improvize.
What Hot Sause says also seems ok.
I can't even get "Agglomer" in Goggle to show up as any product...but I did find the Sylomer sheets, and it appears to be pretty much the same kind of stuff I'm already using...a neoprene foam.

Like I said...the stuff I used was meant for acoustic damping and isolation.
I didn't buy it...it was something leftover from a commercial installation project at a theater I was involved with...and I got about a 4'x4' sheet of it...which was close to 20 years ago...and it's still holding up like new.
So there was no packaging with it, and I never thought of asking the guys who were doing the installation about the brand name...I know they just said it was for acoustic damping and isolation...which is why I was quick to take it.

Anyway...I can certainly get a sheet of the Sylomer...it appears to be readily available here...and compare the two, or just go ahead and replace what I have if it appears to be the better option.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by miroslav ➑️
I can't even get "Agglomer" in Goggle to show up as any product...but I did find the Sylomer sheets, and it appears to be pretty much the same kind of stuff I'm already using...a neoprene foam.

Like I said...the stuff I used was meant for acoustic damping and isolation.
I didn't buy it...it was something leftover from a commercial installation project at a theater I was involved with...and I got about a 4'x4' sheet of it...which was close to 20 years ago...and it's still holding up like new.
So there was no packaging with it, and I never thought of asking the guys who were doing the installation about the brand name...I know they just said it was for acoustic damping and isolation...which is why I was quick to take it.

Anyway...I can certainly get a sheet of the Sylomer...it appears to be readily available here...and compare the two, or just go ahead and replace what I have if it appears to be the better option.
Your thing serves you well, so that is great.
I only tried to warn for the using tennisballs , horsemats or old tyres as decouplers.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg ➑️
...tennisballs , horsemats or old tyres as decouplers.


Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #22
Moderator
 
Northward's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by miroslav ➑️
I can't even get "Agglomer" in Goggle to show up as any product...but I did find the Sylomer sheets, and it appears to be pretty much the same kind of stuff I'm already using...a neoprene foam.

Like I said...the stuff I used was meant for acoustic damping and isolation.
I didn't buy it...it was something leftover from a commercial installation project at a theater I was involved with...and I got about a 4'x4' sheet of it...which was close to 20 years ago...and it's still holding up like new.
So there was no packaging with it, and I never thought of asking the guys who were doing the installation about the brand name...I know they just said it was for acoustic damping and isolation...which is why I was quick to take it.

Anyway...I can certainly get a sheet of the Sylomer...it appears to be readily available here...and compare the two, or just go ahead and replace what I have if it appears to be the better option.
Sylomer is absolutely not neoprene or a type of foam.

If it were it wouldn't work as it does.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northward ➑️
Sylomer is absolutely not neoprene or a type of foam.

If it were it wouldn't work as it does.
When I did my Google search for Sylomer...a bunch of other items came up that were actually neoprene foam. My bad that I didn't read through all of them to see that they were just tossed in there by Goggle search to sell a different product, and not Sylomer.
That said...maybe Google added them to the search because I can't actually find Sylomer for sale here in the USA...?...so Google just brought up similar isolation products, some which are the neoprene foam.

I've tried multiple searches...and while I do find info about Sylomer, and I've also been to the manufacturer's site...I can't find an outlet that actually sells it in small quantities. I do see it for sale in Europe and Australia.
Maybe it's sold under a different name here...?

If anyone has a link for here in the USA, where you can buy just a sheet or two, and not some ready-made isolation product...please post it. I'm curious to compare it to the stuff I already have, which also isn't really "neoprene foam"...I made the mistake of using that as a general description of any rubberized foam product.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
The sorbothane sheets are also really good from a cost perspective if you have several sets of monitors to isolate. Simply use the calculator on their site and cut rectangles to size. Then get a good ruler and make sure you are getting appropriate deflection/compression.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
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Hot Sauce's Avatar
 
I've considered getting the sheets but decided to go with 50 of the .75 inch ones instead. This did seem to help prevent rocking. If I push on the monitors they bounce right back to equilibrium without any visible swinging back and forth. The only complaint I heard about these were from somebody who used larger, softer ones, who said the monitors were too "jiggly."

I definitely feel it was a worthwhile investment and very easy to implement as long as you pay attention to keeping things well-balanced and properly loaded.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 ➑️
The sorbothane sheets are also really good from a cost perspective if you have several sets of monitors to isolate. Simply use the calculator on their site and cut rectangles to size. Then get a good ruler and make sure you are getting appropriate deflection/compression.
Are you referring to this site?

https://www.sorbothane.com/sorbothane-sheet-stock.aspx

OK...so I looked on their design page where there are 3 different calculators:

https://www.sorbothane.com/design-gu...lculators.aspx

I would assume it would be the "vibration" calculator...yes?

https://www.sorbothane.com/Data/Site...alculator.html

I'm not totally dumb...DUH! ...but TBH...I really don't know what numbers to put in all the required fields of the calculator.
I'm just not sure what exactly I'm trying to calculate here...?

I've got a pair of the Focal Trio 11 monitors...and I know their weight, their dimensions, and their claimed frequency response/range...but the calculator fields ask for other things which I'm not sure about...?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by miroslav ➑️
Are you referring to this site?

https://www.sorbothane.com/sorbothane-sheet-stock.aspx

OK...so I looked on their design page where there are 3 different calculators:

https://www.sorbothane.com/design-gu...lculators.aspx

I would assume it would be the "vibration" calculator...yes?

https://www.sorbothane.com/Data/Site...alculator.html

I'm not totally dumb...DUH! ...but TBH...I really don't know what numbers to put in all the required fields of the calculator.
I'm just not sure what exactly I'm trying to calculate here...?

I've got a pair of the Focal Trio 11 monitors...and I know their weight, their dimensions, and their claimed frequency response/range...but the calculator fields ask for other things which I'm not sure about...?
You divide the weight of your trio by 3 or 4 and you have the good model.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #28
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Sylomer is closed cellular polyurethane (PUR).

Available in different densities (colors).
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