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GG and double drywall in imperfect basement studio?
Old 16th December 2016
  #1
Here for the gear
 
GG and double drywall in imperfect basement studio?

EDIT: I wasn't clear.. for the stud wall, I'm not concerned so much with sound isolation as I am with providing mass to reduce acoustic issues. Basically, 3 of 4 walls are concrete/foundation. I was thinking of adding 2 sheets of drywall plus GG to emulate the mass of the other walls.

Hi All,

I have an approx 20x30 space in my basement that I'm building up as a man cave. It'll take the entire 'left' side of the basement and have 3 concrete walls and one framed wall. This is a low budget 'do what I can' effort.

*3 of 4 walls will are concrete foundation with wood stud framing and single sheets of drywall. No insulation.

* Ceiling is open right now, but has R19 fiberglass batts between the joists. The plan is to use IB1 clips, channels, etc. and hang drywall (rather than drop ceiling). I'm still under certain if we should double drywall and GG the ceiling. If GG and a 2nd layer of drywall on the ceiling won't do much beyond what the clips and channels will, I'd like to skip it. Plus the added weight, cost, etc. I don't want to do it unless there's a huge benefit beyond the clips, etc.

*The 4th, non concrete wall is planned to be two sheets with GG in between. My question here is, with all the gaps (including a door sized opening to the otherside of the basement, is GG even worth it? Two sheets of drywall is inexpensive. <$40 plus install. Cheap enough to just do it.

I'm looking at $100+ plus for GG just for this wall, plus at least $200 of GG for the ceiling if I do that to.

Is GG even worth doing in this case? This room will never be perfect, and between a pocket door and another door sized opening towards the back of the room, sound's going to escape anyway.

Here's a pic of the framed wall (and the false curtain wall on the stair side)>

http://i.imgur.com/mzvTf97.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iltvUFB.jpg

Keep in mind the right side will be open, but we're eventually going to put in a bathroom over by the back sewer stack. So there will be just a door sized opening hallway area. No door (so wide open space for sound).

The wall is being completed to the left side of the sewer stack as well, but will have a pocket door on that side. Lots of spaces for sound to get through. Just wondering if GG and dual drywall is even worth. I'm ok with dual sheets for mass, but will GG help at this point?
Old 16th December 2016
  #2
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JWL.GIK's Avatar
How much isolation do you need? As much as I love Green Glue, it's not always ideal for low-budget situations.

What will you be doing in the room? if you can give us a bit more detail about your needs we can comment more usefully.
Old 18th December 2016
  #3
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norton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you're not going to do a complete demo and insulate the existing walls then there's no real benefit to putting clips on your ceiling.

If you want any appreciable isolation you will need to address all the walls and ceiling including the doors/windows.

Now....that being said.... If you're just looking for a modest amount of isolation RC (resilient channel) and Sheetrock will be a good place to start. Cheaper than clips, and they will decouple the upstairs floor from your basement ceiling.

If you're on a serious budget....and your existing walls are un-insulated, then clips and gg will be a waste of time and money.
Old 20th December 2016
  #4
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Isolation would be nice, but I think at the volume I'm concerned about (a full band jamming), there's not much I can do.

My biggest concern is going to be 1 of 4 walls not being concrete and thin and causing acoustical problems.

3 of the 4 walls are concrete with just wood framing and drywall in front. One wall will be just a framed wall. This wall in particular I was thinking could use some extra mass (2 sheets of drywall) and I was thinking GG would be worthwhile since I'd be doing too sheets.

But that said, if I just want to add mass to the wall and not necessarily provide isolation, would 2 sheets without GG be enough? Drywall is cheap, so I'll be doing two sheets on this one wall. The question really for me is if GG is worth it when there's several areas that sound can easily bleed through.
Old 21st December 2016
  #5
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🎧 5 years
Isolation involves keeping more of the sound energy in the room (particularly at low frequencies) so an increase in isolation will generally make the room harder to treat.

However, having a room with some walls more massive than others will likely make the room modes harder to predict and have more complex patterns, so that may cause a little more difficulties as well. But in all likelihood these difficulties will be less than those caused by increased isolation at low frequencies.

So if you're not concerned with isolation, it would make more sense to save the money you would've spent on Green Glue and spend it on properly treating the room.
Old 21st December 2016 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themightymikep ➑️
Isolation involves keeping more of the sound energy in the room (particularly at low frequencies) so an increase in isolation will generally make the room harder to treat.

However, having a room with some walls more massive than others will likely make the room modes harder to predict and have more complex patterns, so that may cause a little more difficulties as well. But in all likelihood these difficulties will be less than those caused by increased isolation at low frequencies.

So if you're not concerned with isolation, it would make more sense to save the money you would've spent on Green Glue and spend it on properly treating the room.
Not really concerned with isolation as it was never a great slate for it to begin with. I'm ok with doing double drywall on the framed wall so that it has more mass and won't be such an extreme difference from the concrete walls.

That said, so rather than using $$ for GG, spend it on base traps and stuff like that? I planned too eventually, but the walls come first so I wanted to make sure I put in a reasonable effort. If GG won't help much in this case, then I'll skip it because of the cost. Then once the walls are done, I can look into analyzing the room for treatments.

Seem reasonable?
Old 22nd December 2016
  #7
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norton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You're not going to get any appreciable acoustic benefit by putting gg and rock in a sandwich on your ceiling.

If you want your rehearsal "zone" to sound good and you're on a super tight budget.... you're gonna want to make it dead. Unfinished basement, concrete, low ceiling.....just make it dead. open up your in-insulated walls... Insulate em and wrap them in fabric. Insulate your ceiling and wrap it in fabric. Get your concrete surfaces covered.... Of course extreme low end absorption would be smart...but on your budget it's not really feasible. Regular Fiberglas insulation in a stud grid on your concrete walls and a fabric wrap will at least get you somewhere.

A vapor barrier is a good idea between concrete and Fiberglas. Plastic wrap, styrofoam....are good choices.



If you're not moving toward sonic isolation there's no point to spending $$ on gg.
Old 22nd December 2016
  #8
Here for the gear
 
The ceiling already has R19 insulation batts.. 2 layers actually. Not the 'best' insulation for the job but it was super cheap. We're going to hang drywall for the ceiling, for no other reason than it'll look nicer than drop ceiling, there's nothing major that needs access in that part of the ceiling, and it'll match the rest of the house.

I planned on using IB1 clips and furring channels to hang the drywall. I don't want to attach the drywall directly to the joists, and the clips/channels will actually create a better mounting height/position due to some piping, etc.

If GG and a 2nd layer of drywall won't do much more than what I'm already planning to do simply because of all the other issues in the space, then I'll totally skip it. I was concerned about 'skipping' it because I was wondering if that would have been the most beneficial step. It sounds like I'm already going to have done what I can without it, and the GG and 2nd drywall layer just wouldn't do much. I'm ok with that.

For the 4th wall (the only non concrete wall), my concern was not so much about preventing sound from escaping, but just creating a wall with more mass than just studs and a single sheet of drywall (and an open back). Since it's only about $40 the drywall, I'm going to do two sheets on the wall even if it doesn't help much. The question I have here is GG worth putting on the wall? Or will 2 sheets of drywall be enough with the impact of GG being negligible?
Old 22nd December 2016
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
The purpose of GG isn't to add mass, but rather to add damping to the walls so that they transmit less sound to the outside world. So if you're not interested in increasing the sound isolation isolation, then there's no reason to use GG.

There's also no reason to use IB1 clips either if you're not interested in increasing the isolation.

If you're not concerned with isolation, all of this is money that could be freed up and used for proper room treatment.
Old 25th December 2016
  #10
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norton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The Sheetrock on your ceiling will create more acoustic problems for you.

Wrap your ceiling in fabric. R19 is fine insulation for your purpose. What you are describing is a very imprecise "down and dirty" acoustic "treatment" situation.
Without getting deep into this. Your best bet is to deaden up your space. Anything more is either going to be way beyond your mentioned budget. Or well beyond the scope of your partial build out.
Heavy curtains....exposed insulated stud cavities wrapped with fabric. Absorption alone will completely burn up your budget and then some...but it'll at least get you on the right track.
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