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Are there too many songs out there?
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #31
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Desire Inspires's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 ➡️
Oh of course, the modern pop music industry is perfect, and the only existing problem is those who dare to not worship it. And of course, it's their psychological problems at the root of their dissenting views.

I guess I better go and purchase the latest Lady Gaga release (after I stop off at McDonalds for some much needed nourishment), I sure wouldn't want you to view me as psychologically inferior. Someday I'll be a Lady Gaga lap dog just like you !
Thank you.
Old 16th March 2014
  #32
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I think it's important to have high standards when listening to music in order to achieve success in songwriting. The way you judge music in general is the way you will judge your own stuff, and I personally believe that listening to okay but not-so-good songs don't help, unless you listen to it while consciously noticing things in the song that could sound better to your ear.
Old 16th March 2014
  #33
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Lady Gaga writes her own songs, she is on her own. She has nothing to do with Katy Perry, Kesha, Justin Bieber, One Direction, and so on.
Old 16th March 2014
  #34
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
The problem for a songwriter is to hate mainstream music. Hating the music that people love, thus inconsciously wanting to make music that most people won't love. A suicidal approach in songwriting. Mainstream music has a lot of qualities, and being in reaction with it doesn't help. Start by making music people love, and when you'll be known, then it will be a better time to make very original music 'cause people will care about it since they know you. If you make very original music while no one knows you, nobody will care about what you do, as unfortunate as it may be!
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #35
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➡️
It doesn't matter what's been uploaded, it matters what's being promoted/played to a real audience. I don't think 10 friends and your mom are what I would call an audience!
How much can you charge them?
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #36
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton1234 ➡️
The problem for a songwriter is to hate mainstream music. Hating the music that people love, thus inconsciously wanting to make music that most people won't love. A suicidal approach in songwriting. Mainstream music has a lot of qualities, and being in reaction with it doesn't help. Start by making music people love, and when you'll be known, then it will be a better time to make very original music 'cause people will care about it since they know you. If you make very original music while no one knows you, nobody will care about what you do, as unfortunate as it may be!
I don't have any problem with pop music--I like a lot of pop--and I don't have any problem with people only wanting to create pop music.

But, what about the many people for whom pop is not their favorite genre. That includes me. If all songwriters are only creating pop music, who will be creating music for those other folks who prefer different sorts of music?

The music business is a lot like the restaurant business. Obviously there are a ton of people who love hamburgers. You can find a hamburger restaurant far easier than you can find anything else all across the US.

But there are people who like other stuff a lot more than (or at least in addition to) hamburgers. If everyone who wanted to open a restaurant only opened a hamburger restaurant because that's the most popular, where would those other folks eat?

Obviously there are a lot of niche markets where you can make a good living running a restaurant that caters to the folks who like something other than hamburgers.
Old 16th March 2014
  #37
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pinkheadedbug's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
It has always cost the same to write a song, namely, nothing.

If you think there are too many songs, stop writing. Be the change you want to see in the world.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #38
Deleted User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➡️
I don't think 10 friends and your mom are what I would call an audience!
That's the issue in a nutshell. There are too many home studio songs for most to make any meaningful impact on the masses. And there are too few people capable of listening to every home recording to make every one a hit. Artists at the top breath rarefied air.

It's more about who you know then what you produce, though quality music is required. Having friends in high places will always cut thru the noise better than simply putting another home studio recording on YouTube.

Many of us do this for love because the economic probabilities are against us. We create music to enjoy it. In some cases, these small efforts attract local or regional following. That can be cool even if it doesn't mean a mainstream hit.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #39
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pinkheadedbug's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➡️
It doesn't matter what's been uploaded, it matters what's being promoted/played to a real audience. I don't think 10 friends and your mom are what I would call an audience!
Actually, they are a perfectly fine audience for many people.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #40
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chet.d's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➡️
It doesn't matter what's been uploaded, it matters what's being promoted/played to a real audience. I don't think 10 friends and your mom are what I would call an audience!
The sobering truth for any forward thinking human music folk attempting a future fueled by latitude and concern for their loved ones & themselves.
…now why did I just buy those stereo Neve compressors?


It also seems to me that it's exponentially more difficult to write songs that have real compositional & arrangement strength when compared to masters (insert your favorite here but IMO Porter, Bacharach/David, pick your Beatle, Randy Newman etc…)
ie; there may be too many songs out here, but not too many in the high quality ballpark IMO. A select few have have done it so well, before.

Interesting collaborations, juxtapositions of artists, arrangements & capturing a unified energy based a a good song is what interests me before putting another decent but ultimately less than top notch track out into the air.

Problem remains, that whole promotion getting it to people other than your friends thing (particularly if you are not able to tour & support it) because it simply doesn't matter much what your friends think of your art.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #41
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chet.d's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug ➡️
Actually, they are a perfectly fine audience for many people.
No doubt true as long as ones expectations for any type of sustenance from that audience are realistic.
Old 16th March 2014
  #42
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
More songs please!!!!!!! more.

I prefer listening to music I haven't heard before. Most of which I will never listen to again. Then that 1 song I get excited by, OH YES!!!!
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug ➡️
Actually, they are a perfectly fine audience for many people.
I don't think my mam has listened to any of my songs. Getting 10 friends to can be hard as well... Sad times... I'd love to have that audience.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus ➡️
The music business is a lot like the restaurant business. Obviously there are a ton of people who love hamburgers. You can find a hamburger restaurant far easier than you can find anything else all across the US.
I feel bad for Americans. In my town, a large struggling town, we have lil hamburger restaurants, with MC'ds in the high street closed etc. We have loads of independent restaurants, Italian, Indian, Chinese, even a tiny Greek 1. What we have even more of is pizzerias, that also do the legendary PARMESAN (unknown as a meal out side the northeast of England) and a nice selection of sandwich stalls.

A hamburger is dirrty food, dirrty. I never eat any form of burger, yuk!!!
Old 16th March 2014
  #45
Gear Head
 
HSA7's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Let's eliminate professional sports so that when most of the pros quit to find a job, we can all play in the games and post our performances on You Tube?
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton1234 ➡️
Lady Gaga writes her own songs, she is on her own. She has nothing to do with Katy Perry, Kesha, Justin Bieber, One Direction, and so on.
Her songs operate on the same vacuous level. More style than substance. More hype than song. More product image and shocking theatrics than musical imagination. Way too reliant on production steroids to drive home the repetitive, predictable product.

Some people just find the songs of the above artists unsatisfying, so they look elsewhere to get the depth of elements they yearn for. There is no need to start accusing them of being psychologically afflicted for striving/searching for something greater than what the trendy, noisy mega-corporate bandwagon is offering.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Addict
 
Dimmy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchiemasha ➡️
A hamburger is dirrty food, dirrty. I never eat any form of burger, yuk!!!
You would reject this vegi-burger?!

Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 ➡️
There is no need to start accusing them of being psychologically afflicted for striving/searching for something greater than what the trendy, noisy mega-corporate bandwagon is offering.


No need guys, no need.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMPF ➡️


No need guys, no need.
Yeah, no need for people to bash other people over the head with their clubs of conformity, desperately trying to compel them to join the hyped trend bandwagon.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 ➡️

Some people just find the songs of the above artists unsatisfying, so they look elsewhere to get the depth of elements they yearn for. There is no need to start accusing them of being psychologically afflicted for striving/searching for something greater than what the trendy, noisy mega-corporate bandwagon is offering.
Curious, who are some of the specific current artists that are delivering high quality music that you value, that you feel are being held back by the "system"?
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #51
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug ➡️
Actually, they are a perfectly fine audience for many people.
You're right, but they're not fine for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chet.d ➡️
The sobering truth for any forward thinking human music folk attempting a future fueled by latitude and concern for their loved ones & themselves.
…now why did I just buy those stereo Neve compressors?


It also seems to me that it's exponentially more difficult to write songs that have real compositional & arrangement strength when compared to masters (insert your favorite here but IMO Porter, Bacharach/David, pick your Beatle, Randy Newman etc…)
ie; there may be too many songs out here, but not too many in the high quality ballpark IMO. A select few have have done it so well, before.

Interesting collaborations, juxtapositions of artists, arrangements & capturing a unified energy based a a good song is what interests me before putting another decent but ultimately less than top notch track out into the air.

Problem remains, that whole promotion getting it to people other than your friends thing (particularly if you are not able to tour & support it) because it simply doesn't matter much what your friends think of your art.
Haha why did you buy them? Do you run a business? And yes, the promotion is the hardest part!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chet.d ➡️
No doubt true as long as ones expectations for any type of sustenance from that audience are realistic.
Exactly.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #52
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet.d ➡️
Problem remains, that whole promotion getting it to people other than your friends thing (particularly if you are not able to tour & support it) because it simply doesn't matter much what your friends think of your art.
Wtf?
At least to me it matters more what my friends think about my art than some strangers. It also depends what kind of friends you have.

I do like that people beyond my friends to find my art. I started my new project in January and now i seem to get +150plays/day for my tracks. I'm very pleased that so many people is finding my tracks.

Promotion is overrated anyways. There is lot of promoted music that will not get played and dj's play lot of stuff that is not promoted.

And it's about luck. Sara aka. Smoukahontas who posted her first youtube video two weeks ago will be most known 19 year old girl in western world in next four weeks. With zero initial promotion.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
Curious, who are some of the specific current artists that are delivering high quality music that you value, that you feel are being held back by the "system"?
The ones who compromise their artistic integrity and let their handlers (agents, executives, producers) put them on a leash and call the shots are the ones being held back by the system. If they aren't willing to break free and step on a few toes, then they deserve the (contractual servitude) scenario they are in. A totally unleashed Bieber, wild & free, would be neat to witness, but it likely won't happen because he's effectively become a willing pawn of the corporate mainstream pop music industry.

Foster The People are ready to release their next album, and it would be neat to see if they are able to deliver some progressive artistry and musical depth while still taking advantage of mainstream promotional benefits.

The bottom line is, when you willingly become a corporate mainstream music pawn, you give up a lot of artistic freedom, and become mired in a web of gatekeepers.

Kesha Explains Why She Felt 'Forced' to Sing 'Die Young' - Speakeasy - WSJ

Ke$ha checks out of rehab and leaves dollar sign behind | Music | theguardian.com

To what extent Bieber and Kesha can break free of the corporate control mechanism will be interesting to see.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
chet.d's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➡️
Haha why did you buy them? Do you run a business? And yes, the promotion is the hardest part!
I got a really lucky deal on a new in box pair of bad 10dc's (exaggeration on the neve part) otherwise, the why is a tough question.
I guess I can't let go of the ambition attempting to make it somehow pay off more appreciably at some point. Hardly a consistent business though getting paid to produce some others aside from my own stuff a bit more lately.

As you said Chris & also IME, promotion & the budget for it is key. Assuming the song is of quality or atleast, has an audience. All other interest in ones stuff comes from playing live (if you're consistantly able to) and/or ones human connections.

The artist that writes a good song being able to pay some bills seems to me the wildly inconsistant variable.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #55
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chet.d's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito ➡️
Wtf?
At least to me it matters more what my friends think about my art than some strangers. It also depends what kind of friends you have.
It's a given that we "like" when our friends like our music but if you want your music to reach an audience and not just your friends, then it's the audience that really matters.

It's my opinion as well that the best artists don't giva **** what anyone really thinks except maybe, a few repected peers or so (that are not always friends), when it comes to their work.
The important part is starting, finishing, repeating and positive growth. Other than those bills ofcourse.
But that's just my view.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 ➡️
The ones who compromise their artistic integrity and let their handlers (agents, executives, producers) put them on a leash and call the shots are the ones being held back by the system. If they aren't willing to break free and step on a few toes, then they deserve the (contractual servitude) scenario they are in. A totally unleashed Bieber, wild & free, would be neat to witness, but it likely won't happen because he's effectively become a willing pawn of the corporate mainstream pop music industry.

Foster The People are ready to release their next album, and it would be neat to see if they are able to deliver some progressive artistry and musical depth while still taking advantage of mainstream promotional benefits.

The bottom line is, when you willingly become a corporate mainstream music pawn, you give up a lot of artistic freedom, and become mired in a web of gatekeepers.

Kesha Explains Why She Felt 'Forced' to Sing 'Die Young' - Speakeasy - WSJ

Ke$ha checks out of rehab and leaves dollar sign behind | Music | theguardian.com

To what extent Bieber and Kesha can break free of the corporate control mechanism will be interesting to see.

Interesting, I hadn't even remotely considered that you were wanting more unleashed wild and free Bieber and Kesha music. I had misread your position entirely.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet.d ➡️
I got a really lucky deal on a new in box pair of bad 10dc's (exaggeration on the neve part) otherwise, the why is a tough question.
I guess I can't let go of the ambition attempting to make it somehow pay off more appreciably at some point. Hardly a consistent business though getting paid to produce some others aside from my own stuff a bit more lately.

As you said Chris & also IME, promotion & the budget for it is key. Assuming the song is of quality or atleast, has an audience. All other interest in ones stuff comes from playing live (if you're consistantly able to) and/or ones human connections.

The artist that writes a good song being able to pay some bills seems to me the wildly inconsistant variable.
And it just shows how hard it is to write, and perform songs at a high enough level.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
Interesting, I hadn't even remotely considered that you were wanting more unleashed wild and free Bieber and Kesha music. I had misread your position entirely.
I'd like to see them in a sort of frenzied artistic venting state, you know, without any "directing" by their "superiors". I'd like to see them able to operate in a creative context where they call all the shots, and tell the suits to "f-off and get outta my way" in a Johnny Rotten style.

It's a (highly unlikely) pop music paradigm many current detractors would actually support conceptually and financially.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #59
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chet.d's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago ➡️
And it just shows how hard it is to write, and perform songs at a high enough level.
So true.

I only know significantly reaching people is all about the right collaborations, timing and insane amounts of sence of purpose & stick to it-ness.
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 ➡️
I'd like to see them in a sort of frenzied artistic venting state, you know, without any "directing" by their "superiors". I'd like to see them able to operate in a creative context where they call all the shots, and tell the suits to "f-off and get outta my way" in a Johnny Rotten style.

It's a (highly unlikely) pop music paradigm many current detractors would actually support conceptually and financially.


They would certainly be supported both conceptually and financially if the songs caught on, like what happened with Lorde. Kesha and Bieber are in a more unique position: when you sign with Dr Luke or an established "hitmaker" producer, or sign up as a child, you're signing into a preset system, and you know this when you sign up.

However, like I've described in other threads, artists who sign directly to major labels often have near limitless creative freedom, and are hooked up with literally hundreds of songwriters and producers to work with over the period of a few years to try out whatever they like, 6 days a week, sometimes two sessions a day.

Labels absolutely love it when something other than Dr Luke hits. He hold so much leverage that everything is in his favor, and not in the label's favor, when dealing with him on the business end. I've been in a few meetings where Luke is referred to quite sarcastically or bitterly by a label head, cheering me onto come up with something that'll top him.

It just so happens that artist after artist, songwriter after songwriter, producer and producer (myself included) fail to deliver songs that people want to hear more than the next Dr Luke jam.
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