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KM 184 OR AT 4033 for overheads
Old 2nd October 2002
  #1
Bernard πŸŽ™οΈ
Guest
KM 184 OR AT 4033 for overheads

I'll be starting a blues/jazz project in two or three weeks and I'm considering my options for drum overhead mics. I don't have access to ribbon microphones (or I might try them) as I've heard the take the harsh edges off digital recording. I'll be tracking through a couple of mic pres including tl audio indigo tube pre to rosetta, and am hoping to test drive Apogees MINI ME. I've got a an AT 4033 and Neumann KM184 and was thinking of renting one more of one or the other. What say you?
Old 2nd October 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey...

Definately go for the KM-184's... While i have not used the AT's i have mates who ahve and have commented on them being nice for overheads in a rock gig where the OH's were mainly used for the cybals rathe than the complete OH drum tone.. which is what i use OH for... if i want cybals i like to use km-83 omnis .

KM184's will be darker but also more neutral and not as hypey and peakey in some parts, and really lend themselves to this sort of application... just my two cents but hey if u can get a listen on both give it a go and let us know...

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 2nd October 2002
  #3
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'd prefer the KM184 route because the AT4033 has an edge to it that I don't like on overheads. But it's still a good mic. If I didn't have anything else I'd take it without hesitating.

Ps TLAudio on overheads is a nice thing.

Good luck and listen for yourself Jo
Old 2nd October 2002
  #4
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Jazz/blues project... I'd probably go with the one KM-184 just over the drummer's right shoulder... mix with front mic to taste.
Old 2nd October 2002
  #5
Gear Nut
 
Crushed's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
3 drum mic technique

Fletcher, or anyone:

I've always wondered, if I do the one mic in front of the kit, and another over by the floortom or over the drummer's head, how do I pan these two?
Old 2nd October 2002
  #6
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
If you're gonna rent, think about renting a pair of Shure KSM 44's - I've been using them for overheads for a good while now and really like them. But if you'll be renting, you ought to be able to get about anything you want...
Old 2nd October 2002
  #7
Gear Head
 
heylow's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Another for "Fletcher or anyone..."

When you put a mic "just over the drummer's right shoulder", where is it, approximately, in height and what is it generally "looking" at?

About the front mic, I assume you keep it lowish, right? Mostly picking up KIK and the underside of toms? Placed, I assume, KIK drum level?

Drum micing.....it just goes on and on, doesn't it?



heylow
Old 2nd October 2002
  #8
Gear Head
 
heylow's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Crushed,

I'm certainly no expert so take my post with a grain of salt.....worth a try, though.

When my band does rehearsal demos, I usually put a D112 in the kick and and a single 57 overhead, micing guitar and taking a line a from the vocal and bass. We just record the tune live, bleed and all (thats why there is a 57 there instead of a condenser) and later I might add some bits of embellishement for the sake of fleshing out a "song."

Anyway, I later quickly mix it down for passing it around to the band. I find that if I pan the overhead slightly to moderately in either direction and stick something like guitar or vox opposite, it gives it a wider feel.

I just pan till it sounds too far over and then bring it back till it sounds kinda cool. There are times it almost fools me into thinking it's stereo....might be the bleed helping out there though


Hope this helps some!


heylow
Old 3rd October 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey, I took this from the mercenary site... He gives a couple other options as well at :

http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

"proaudio101 wrote:
How do you do this with the overheads
(where should they be in height, distance, aimed at?), and are KM84 usually good tools for the OH pair? Will there be any polarity problems if I throw in a snare and room mic?

Fletcher wrote:
There a half a dozen "3 mic drum techniques" that I'm familiar with.
Is there any particular one to which you refer?

Here are a few of them:

I usually start with a mic in front of the kit. It could be 6 feet or one foot off the bass drum. The object of this mic is usually to get the "front of the kit". I look for a good bass drum sound, but also the bottom of the toms and a bit of snare...cymbals will also exist here. The tuning of the kit, the proficiency of the drummer, the mic selection and placement are all pretty damn important...you can do a little EQ to this, but not a whole hell of a lot. When you use equalizers on this mic, you will find that you often mess up the balance of the drums within the context of the kit. Depending on the tone you're looking for, a ribbon, lg. diaphragm condenser or dynamic might be the most appropriate.

For ribbons my choices are usually Royer 121's, RCA-77's...for lg. diaphragm condensers, Neumann 47 FET's, M-147's; Soundelux U-195’s/U-95S’s and/or U-99’s; dynamics MD-421’s; AKG D-30's often work pretty well, but they're a bitch to find and I don't own one. Sometimes [rarely] a Shure 57.

Now, in mono, one speaker, I put up a second mic. This can go anywhere from directly over the snare to over the drummers right shoulder...or anywhere in the arc in between. The key here is to add that mic so you get the snare, hat, top of the toms and cymbals without the cymbals being out of balance with the rest of the kit. If the drummer can't control this balance, you're pretty much ****ed and should revert back to the close mic'ed SR methods they teach at the recording schools.

The reason I do this in mono-1 speaker is to insure that I'm not going to **** with the bottom of the bass drum because of an inconsistent phase relationship with the front mic. For this I will often use a ribbon, like a Coles 4038, or a condenser. U-67's often work. I find that as I get closer to 'behind the drummer', a small diaphragm condenser, like a KM-54 will often work a bit better.

Mic #3 is often placed next to the floor tom, just peeking over the rim of the drum at the snare. It's usually placed equidistant from the over mic as it relates to 'ground zero' [where the drummer actually hits the snare drum, not the center of it]. As always, one speaker mono is your friend."
Old 3rd October 2002
  #10
Bernard πŸŽ™οΈ
Guest
Thanks for all your suggestions. I don't think I have the balls to try the three mike technique. I'll probably play it safe and go with at least four mics. I've got D112 for kik and a 57 for snare and maybe I'll give the ksm 44 a go on overheads. I agree that the 4033 do have a certain sizzle that isn't always pleasant for cymbals. I may chicken out totally and put a couple of seinheisers on the toms as well. Thanks once again to all for your sugestions. Ill let you know how it goes.
Old 3rd October 2002
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Fibes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
More isn't always better. Keep that in mind as well.
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