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Daniel Lanois Vocal Effect
Old 28th August 2014
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Daniel Lanois Vocal Effect

Was listening to the new Rocco Deluca record that was produced by Daniel Lanois. It's pretty great, by the way.

There is a vocal effect on a song called "Free" and I was wondering if anyone has some idea of how they are achieving that? I've tried to get it and I can get something starting to get there but not right.

It's a similar effect that was used on Bob Dylan's "Love Sick" off of the Time Out of Mind record. It has a very cool distorted sort of thing going on.

This is the best version I can find online of the song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUSG9vRWl60
Old 28th August 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
code green's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Not sure exactly what aspect of the vocal you're referring to but I believe Lanois ran Dylan's vocals in Time Out of Mind through a guitar amp. Hard to discern with certainty just what's what in Lanois's hall of delay mirrors, but it sounds to me as if he gave some space to the amp in mic'ing it and perhaps blended that with the dry vocal.
Old 1st September 2014
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Santiago's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by neogardguitar ➑️
Was listening to the new Rocco Deluca record that was produced by Daniel Lanois. It's pretty great, by the way.

There is a vocal effect on a song called "Free" and I was wondering if anyone has some idea of how they are achieving that? I've tried to get it and I can get something starting to get there but not right.

It's a similar effect that was used on Bob Dylan's "Love Sick" off of the Time Out of Mind record. It has a very cool distorted sort of thing going on.

This is the best version I can find online of the song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUSG9vRWl60
I'm also enjoying that album a lot (was listening to it just now!). "Free" is (I think) one of the few songs that Lanois had no involvement in (although the sound is kept quite consistent, which is cool), I will check the liner notes.

As for the sound on "Love sick", Lanois explained it in an interview a few years ago:

"Lanois captured Dylan's voice with a Sony C37A microphone, the very same
one he used on "Oh Mercy": "It sill had Bob's name on it; we just pulled it out
of the box." Compression was provided by a vintage UREI LA-2A. The album's
distinctively processed vocal sounds were created by a variety of devices. A
stereo flanger program on an Eventide 3500 helped create the plaintive vocal
timbre on "Love Sick." "If somone were to describe that to me, I'd say, ' No,
I don't think you should use that effect on Bob's voice,' " Lanois says. "But
it happened to come up, and there was just something cool and 'transmissional'
about it. It almost sounds like he was being beamed in from a satellite or
something."

Elsewhere Lanois used what he calls "the Elvis echo" on Dylan's voice:
an 180 milisecond delay setting on an AMS harmonizer, simulating 7-1/2" ips
slapback echo from a Fifties tape machine. "Often the processing went down
while Bob was performing," Lanois explains. "We would record a clean vocal
track and a processed vocal track and then blend them to taste when we mixed.
But Bob would perform to the processing to give him inspiration. It's kind of
the equivalent of a Chicago blues harp, where you overdrive it. We tried to
encourage that as much as possible-that kind of P.A. vocal sound."

ACADIE :: Interview on the recording of Time Out Of Mind

In a separate interview the use of a guitar amp was quoted, so that's also part of it, clearly. It gives that slightly cutting character that goes really well with his voice.

http://www.uncut.co.uk/bob-dylan/bob...ward-interview

I should add that the guy who did mos tof the engineering on the Rocco Deluca record is here on GS and could probably tell us more about the album! His name is C.Judd Karn , and I will give drop him a line.
Old 1st September 2014
  #4
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
hey thanks for the info. would love to hear more about the Rocco Deluca album from C.Judd Karn. It really is a great sounding record.
Old 1st September 2014
  #5
Gear Head
 
James Meder's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
this record is fantastic. Been playing it non stop on spotify as it seems to have suddenly disappeared from everywhere else online. Any input on the engineering or mixing that went down would be greatly appreciated!
Old 1st September 2014 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meder ➑️
this record is fantastic. Been playing it non stop on spotify as it seems to have suddenly disappeared from everywhere else online. Any input on the engineering or mixing that went down would be greatly appreciated!
It's available via Google's All Access service as well.


The harshed out, saturated vocal pushed forward by an almost imperceptible slapback and haloed by a tiny bit of 'verb is Lanois' current (or perhaps then-current) trick of the moment. The Dylan thing is really prominent and a bit hard to adjust to, since the vocal is so far forward. Overall, the technique reminds me of a number of Tom Waits tracks over the years.
Old 1st September 2014 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Santiago's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 ➑️
It's available via Google's All Access service as well.


The harshed out, saturated vocal pushed forward by an almost imperceptible slapback and haloed by a tiny bit of 'verb is Lanois' current (or perhaps then-current) trick of the moment. The Dylan thing is really prominent and a bit hard to adjust to, since the vocal is so far forward. Overall, the technique reminds me of a number of Tom Waits tracks over the years.
I remember when Time out of mind came out it sounded so shocking, because up until then producers had been trying to paper over the weirdness in Bob Dylan's voice (Lanois himself had made it sound fairly good on Oh Mercy). And on this record, suddenly, this weirdness was amplified and made into the main feature.

It should be remembered, however, that Dylan himself (see link above) was the one who insisted to sing through an amp for the whole of the album. But of course, Lanois ran away with it and gave it a lot of prominence.
Old 1st September 2014
  #8
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think, had the Dylan vocal been a little more seated down into what I would think of as its pocket, I would have liked it considerably more. I've apparently always had a bit of a soft spot for harshly saturated vocals. Possibly because my own voice is more on the Dylan end of things than the Nat Cole end.
Old 8th September 2014
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
ForgottenG's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is in no way an exact recreation but I just discovered the SDRR saturation plug-in from Klanghelm. ridiculously cheap and cool tones. Check it out.
Old 8th September 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Santiago's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgottenG ➑️
This is in no way an exact recreation but I just discovered the SDRR saturation plug-in from Klanghelm. ridiculously cheap and cool tones. Check it out.
Thanks, very intriguing, will check it out!

EDIT: Actually they even have a nice freeware version that allows you to dip your toes into the SDRR sound...

http://www.klanghelm.com/IVGI.php
Old 8th September 2014 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
old ghost's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgottenG ➑️
This is in no way an exact recreation but I just discovered the SDRR saturation plug-in from Klanghelm. ridiculously cheap and cool tones. Check it out.
Thanks for the heads up on SDRR ForgottenG! Good stuff. Klanghelm rocks.
Old 9th September 2014
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
ForgottenG's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yea I have used this plugin numerous times today I can't believe how cool it is.
Old 20th September 2014
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
thanks for posting. Was a fan of Rocco DeLuca after seeing him live a few years ago. Didn't know one released a new record. Easily my favorite record of the years so far.
Old 5th October 2014
  #14
Gear Addict
 
C.Judd Karn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Glad folks are enjoying the Rocco record, we worked hard on it.
Recorded the majority of the record in a house in LA, gorilla style,
Would schedule weekly meetings with Dan to get notes on production,
Go back and fine tune it to bring to Dan for final mix.
He did not use much outboard, just eventide 3000, ams verb, lexicon delay
And 2 la 2a comps....but he played that console like a lap steel....genius!

Let me know if you have any questions about the recording
Old 5th October 2014 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Santiago's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Judd Karn ➑️
Glad folks are enjoying the Rocco record, we worked hard on it.
Recorded the majority of the record in a house in LA, gorilla style,
Would schedule weekly meetings with Dan to get notes on production,
Go back and fine tune it to bring to Dan for final mix.
He did not use much outboard, just eventide 3000, ams verb, lexicon delay
And 2 la 2a comps....but he played that console like a lap steel....genius!

Let me know if you have any questions about the recording
Thanks for posting here! It's my favourite-sounding album of the year so far, so it's interesting to see that Lanois used gear that he has been using for ever - perhaps it's more about knowing the gear well than about having endless outboard.

A couple of quick questions:

- What was the signal chain for the lapsteel, including the amp?

- How did you mic the acoustic guitar?, I think the record has a consistently cool dry sound on the acoustic tracks.

- What's the harmonium-like instrument on Simple thing? It's a very unexpected touch and sounds great.
Old 5th October 2014
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I second the favorite sounding record of the year and add the last couple years. A few questions to...
Where the tracks cut live with the band? How did you approach isolation in the house? Did you do anything to attempt to treat the room?

Were you compressing on the way in?

And because its gearslutz... What was the vocal mic? How about drum mics?

Who was the rhythm section? They're great.

I'm out for a 7 week tour right now (playing a bunch of the same venues as rocco) I've been using the record as house music and always get people asking who it is.
Old 5th October 2014
  #17
Gear Addict
 
C.Judd Karn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hi Santiago,

Wow, that's a nice compliment about the records sound! There
We're definite choices from chord voicings, instrument, where in the room to record, etc.
that were consciously made. Once we had a few good stations ( one for guitar, one for organ, one for
Bass...) we would just go back to that set up and go.
To answer your questions:
1. I was not there for the lap steel, that was one of the few things I had missed as at that point
I had moved on to a new job. But when in Dans studio he had a Fender tweed mic'd up with a senn 609 into
Either an API 512 or one of the Neve console pres.
He rarely compresses guitars while recording.... But during mix all bets are off and it sounds like one of his
Vintage la2a may have touched the guitar.
2. Glad you asked about the acoustic: Rocco never used a pick. The mic, every time on acoustic was....wait for it....a brand new 57 (one sounded better than the others, I think a Chinese fake made it into his collection, and the Non fake sounded best). We marked our favorite 57 with tape and it was only used on acoustic from that point on.
Before I worked at Vintage King (yes, I work at vk now, long other story...a good one
I had been close friends with David at Mercury Recording...when we started the record, just Rocco and I, there was no recording budget, so we were just cobbling our recording gear together for the pre production.
On the first "tracking day" David was so nice that he shipped down a pile of his mic pres; a pair of his m72 tube, and 4 of his grand pre channel strips, as well as a 66 vari mu comp.
After shooting out all of the pres we had on hand his grand pre channel strip and the new 57 was the coolest tone, and we stuck with it.....loved it so much I bought the very channel strip to hold on to for the next record.
If you go to the mercury Facebook page I think there is a photo of that first ensemble tracking day...you can see the gear and Rocco in the background with the trusted 57....and sm7 set up for Gtr and vocals.
3. Harmonium sound: it was Rocco's personal Harmoniam that he played, we also recorded a 70's solid state hammond that had the coolest tones... It's all over the record....and that doubled some lines.....both the harmonium and the organ were recorded with a Royer 121 into a Mercury M72 (one that I've owned for years). A big part of the
Tone on the record was from the beautiful old wood floors in the house....it has a tone.
Oh, and this post is starting to sound like a Mercury commercial (haha), but honestly we had neve 1073, ua la 610, api512, and the mercury grand pre and m72 to choose from....at the end of the day the best mic and pre amp match won and we never moved away from those combos.....it gave the record a sound that could be recreated over the 2 year process.....yes, 2 years....that's another story.
Old 5th October 2014
  #18
Gear Addict
 
C.Judd Karn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hi Phanlon,

Thank you for the kindness...Rocco, Dan, Lucas "Old Man" and Alex will be stoked to hear the kind words.
This record was a team/family effort making us all better.

1. Compressing on the way in: yes, on some things...in fact, only these-
Vocal= sm7-mercury m72- line in UA LA610 opto compressor
Bass Guitar (electric)= mercury grand pre channel strip - UA LA 610 line in for opto compressor
Some of the back ground vocals (gang vocals) claps and percussion would also get the
Same treatment but with a Royer 121 the m72 and same opto compressor.....but not often.
I was very cautious as to leave room for Dan to play with the Dynamics during mix and was not
Until a few songs in and after Dan's encouragement that I started taking some of the raw tracks back to
My studio to add some processing through some of the vintage 1176, 1073, and a pultec Eqp 1a.
This was only done on "everything hurts", and maybe 2 others....the rest of the record tracks would only be
Brought back to my studio for clean up..........the majority of the record was edited and of course recorded on a Mac lap top with pro tools 10 (not HD).

2. Vocal and drum mics:
Vocal = a fairly new sm7b
Drums = Royer 121 above ride side of kit with null facing snare, Aea r 84 above snare side
With null facing floor tom and ride
Hat = another r84 with null facing snare
Snare = old shure 545 from my studio
Kick = Rocco's akg d112
(Aea were rented from Micworks ....pre working at VK)

Isolation, and room treatment: we found the sweet spot in the largest room in the house. A main concern
Was the low ceiling and that was another reason for positioning the null of the figure 8 mics pointing at not only
The drum they needed to reject, but also the ceiling reflections.
******forgot to mention the U47fet just above the drummers head, that mic was a killer******
There was an uprise player, drummer and Rocco cutting some keeper and scratch vocals and acoustic,
They were all in the same room: bass player 3 feet behind drummer with a gobo made of couch cushions, 2 mic stands and
A lot of packing blankets.
The drummer was in front of Rocco, about 8 feet away, with a gobo of the same material protecting the guitar and vocal mic.
The only keeper vocals and guitars from the basics that came from that session were "thief and the moon", and "simple thing" both of which were a solid take with maybe only a minimal edit on one....hard to remember....and of course Dan adding some beauty with his pedal steel on one.

3: The Rhythm section-
The rhythm section from Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeroes on=
Everything Hurts
Thief and the Moon
Simple thing
Feather and Knife

Oliver Charles (drums) world of hurt.... Bass pedals were Rocco I think? We moved pretty quick on this one.

"Colors of the Cold" was made up of pieced together sounds that I found all over the record for percussion, either Old Man or I played bass on it.....and then Dan took it to a whole new level with his extraordinary Mix! Amazing! All of that dub stuff and echoes and pulling notes from the slide....just amazing!

I am not sure who the rhythm section were on "free", "congregate" (both we had already done versions) and "through Fire".....as I had already started work at VK by that time and had to bow out.

It's a beautiful record and I am very proud of what was made with good friends.

Have fun on the tour, drink lots of water and watch out for that truck stop Jerky
Old 5th October 2014 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Judd Karn ➑️
....but he played that console like a lap steel....genius!
Old 6th October 2014
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
He obviously knows the arrangement and can bring in /out as he pleases.

Beautiful work and you could record that performance direct to 2 track.

Cheers
Old 6th October 2014 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Santiago's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Judd Karn ➑️
Hi Santiago,

Wow, that's a nice compliment about the records sound! There
We're definite choices from chord voicings, instrument, where in the room to record, etc.
that were consciously made. Once we had a few good stations ( one for guitar, one for organ, one for
Bass...) we would just go back to that set up and go.
To answer your questions:
1. I was not there for the lap steel, that was one of the few things I had missed as at that point
I had moved on to a new job. But when in Dans studio he had a Fender tweed mic'd up with a senn 609 into
Either an API 512 or one of the Neve console pres.
He rarely compresses guitars while recording.... But during mix all bets are off and it sounds like one of his
Vintage la2a may have touched the guitar.
2. Glad you asked about the acoustic: Rocco never used a pick. The mic, every time on acoustic was....wait for it....a brand new 57 (one sounded better than the others, I think a Chinese fake made it into his collection, and the Non fake sounded best). We marked our favorite 57 with tape and it was only used on acoustic from that point on.
Before I worked at Vintage King (yes, I work at vk now, long other story...a good one
I had been close friends with David at Mercury Recording...when we started the record, just Rocco and I, there was no recording budget, so we were just cobbling our recording gear together for the pre production.
On the first "tracking day" David was so nice that he shipped down a pile of his mic pres; a pair of his m72 tube, and 4 of his grand pre channel strips, as well as a 66 vari mu comp.
After shooting out all of the pres we had on hand his grand pre channel strip and the new 57 was the coolest tone, and we stuck with it.....loved it so much I bought the very channel strip to hold on to for the next record.
If you go to the mercury Facebook page I think there is a photo of that first ensemble tracking day...you can see the gear and Rocco in the background with the trusted 57....and sm7 set up for Gtr and vocals.
3. Harmonium sound: it was Rocco's personal Harmoniam that he played, we also recorded a 70's solid state hammond that had the coolest tones... It's all over the record....and that doubled some lines.....both the harmonium and the organ were recorded with a Royer 121 into a Mercury M72 (one that I've owned for years). A big part of the
Tone on the record was from the beautiful old wood floors in the house....it has a tone.
Oh, and this post is starting to sound like a Mercury commercial (haha), but honestly we had neve 1073, ua la 610, api512, and the mercury grand pre and m72 to choose from....at the end of the day the best mic and pre amp match won and we never moved away from those combos.....it gave the record a sound that could be recreated over the 2 year process.....yes, 2 years....that's another story.
Thanks for all the details, I will have some good listening sessions with this knowledge on mind!

Very surprising about using a 57 on the acoustic, particularly as I found it a great sound without knowing anything about how it had been recorded.

And very interesting too about the harmonium mic'd with the Royer sounds, again, it's something that jumped at me when I heard the song.
Old 14th October 2014
  #22
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
There was a lot of magic captured on this recording... congrats to Rocco, Chris and all involved. Daniel's mixes are on another level, I really love the vibe he created... It's in heavy rotation here...
Old 14th October 2014 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
timtoonz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Judd Karn ➑️
Hi Phanlon,

2. Vocal and drum mics:
Vocal = a fairly new sm7b
Drums = Royer 121 above ride side of kit with null facing snare, Aea r 84 above snare side
With null facing floor tom and ride
Hat = another r84 with null facing snare
Snare = old shure 545 from my studio
Kick = Rocco's akg d112
(Aea were rented from Micworks ....pre working at VK)

Isolation, and room treatment: we found the sweet spot in the largest room in the house. A main concern
Was the low ceiling and that was another reason for positioning the null of the figure 8 mics pointing at not only
The drum they needed to reject, but also the ceiling reflections.
******forgot to mention the U47fet just above the drummers head, that mic was a killer******
Great post - thanks. I'm just a bit confused about how the ribbon microphones are used to create a stereo picture of the drum kit. If the snare is in only one of the ribbons (the AEA apparently), then do you pan that mic to the centre? Or does the snare come more from the U47fet over the top, panned up the middle?

Thanks for any and all info you can provide!
πŸ“ Reply

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