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Vocal Mic With Lower-Mid Scoop
Old 1st March 2014
  #1
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RedBaaron's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Vocal Mic With Lower-Mid Scoop

Need recommendations for a good vocal mic (preferrably ldc) with a scoop around 300-500 khz. Yes, I've tried increasing the distance. Anything spring to mind?
Old 1st March 2014
  #2
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Aaron Miller's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Check out the FR on the Lauten Atlantis. The mic kills on many sources and high end is smooth.
Old 1st March 2014
  #3
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The Neumann TLM103 sounds like it has a dip around that area. At least relative to the high mids and above. I think that's why I like it so much on toms and overheads (depending on kit anyway). I agree that Lauten Atlantis is a great mic in general.
Old 1st March 2014 | Show parent
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Miller ➑️
Check out the FR on the Lauten Atlantis. The mic kills on many sources and high end is smooth.
Thanks, looks promising
Old 1st March 2014 | Show parent
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred ➑️
The Neumann TLM103 sounds like it has a dip around that area. At least relative to the high mids and above. I think that's why I like it so much on toms and overheads (depending on kit anyway).
Looks like from the frequence response at Neumann TLM 103 | RecordingHacks.com that it has a high-frequency bump at around 5-20khz. Is it one of those that sizzles with a very much gain thrown at it?
Old 1st March 2014
  #6
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countrymetalguy's Avatar
 
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🎧 15 years
how about a Shure SM7b?
Old 1st March 2014 | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countrymetalguy ➑️
how about a Shure SM7b?
Already own one. I like an SM7b through a Neveish pre-->Compressors->Vitalizer->EQ, but I am looking specifically for something with the mud cut around 300-500khz already there in frequency response, if it exists. Condenser preferrably, tube even better.
Old 1st March 2014
  #8
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The Stellar CM6, as long as you don't swallow the mic. Tube LDC with no trace of mud.
Old 1st March 2014 | Show parent
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 1846071 ➑️
The Stellar CM6, as long as you don't swallow the mic. Tube LDC with no trace of mud.
Do you know where I can find a frequency response graph on that?
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron ➑️
Looks like from the frequence response at Neumann TLM 103 | RecordingHacks.com that it has a high-frequency bump at around 5-20khz. Is it one of those that sizzles with a very much gain thrown at it?
Yes, it's got a pronounced high mid to high end, but if you cut low mids it's going to make anything brighter. Unless of course it has a flat top with a rolloff up there. Maybe you need a ribbon mic like an R84 and EQ to taste?
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred ➑️
Yes, it's got a pronounced high mid to high end, but if you cut low mids it's going to make anything brighter. Unless of course it has a flat top with a rolloff up there. Maybe you need a ribbon mic like an R84 and EQ to taste?
Never tried a R84. The only ribbons I've used have been cheaper ones, and the roll-off on the highs kind of scared me away for vocals. Is it more even-balanced than say, a Shiny Box with the Lundahl mod? I've got one of those laying around and could try it out.

But actually, I was fiddling with some additional ITB processing with the SM7 just now , and I think that's probably going to be close enough to do the trick. That mic has always struck me as having little to no character of its own, but it takes eq & compression like nobody's business.

If I can't do the job with it, I'll probably give the Lautner a shot come tax return day, since the 3-circuit thing interests me. Also need to get my T3 fixed and try it, since from what I remember, it was in the vicinity.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind if I do end up buying something.
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron ➑️
Never tried a R84. The only ribbons I've used have been cheaper ones, and the roll-off on the highs kind of scared me away for vocals. Is it more even-balanced than say, a Shiny Box with the Lundahl mod? I've got one of those laying around and could try it out.
I've never tried a Shiny Box or compared it to an AEA R 8 4. The R 8 4 is very smooth for vocals.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #13
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cchord59's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Try a 421. I really like those mics on muddy sounding singers with too much 300 Hz.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #14
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Not a LDC, but I was trying experimenting with some of my "drum/guitar" mics on vocals the other day, and noticed to what extent the Heil PR22 and PR30 have a scooped low-midrange. The PR30 has a bit more bottom end, and overall smoother sound to my ears. They are not too dissimilar from a LDC in terms of sound. Plenty of treble/air/clarity, and using the proximity effect, you can dial in a suitable amount of bottom end (much like an SM7-B I'd imagine).

That said, I still can't see me using them nearly as much as my Lauten Oceanus and C414. I'd love an Atlantis one day. Seems like a promising, versatile mic. Happy hunting!
Old 2nd March 2014
  #15
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euphoria89's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The Blue Kiwi has a noticeable dip in this area. No Mud, and the top end is airy, but not harsh. Like a modern 87ai, but with a slightly less forward sound.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #16
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frans's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
No LDCs but ... try a kickdrum mic. I know that a few of those are used regularly as vocal mics. Give it a try and lowcut to taste. Another way would be a 'kickpad' in tandem with any LDC.
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #17
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RedBaaron's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cchord59 ➑️
Try a 421. I really like those mics on muddy sounding singers with too much 300 Hz.
421 -> CAPI V28 has so far been my favorite for this application also. But it's not really 'hi-fi' sounding enough at the highs for a modern recording sound. For some reason though, I really do like a 421 though API-ish for an old school country vocal sound, and an SM7 through Neve-ish for rock sound, and think switching the pres makes both mics not nearly as good. Might be something to experiment on, using the vitalizer or a bbe to bring a little clarity to the highs and using the 421.
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #18
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RedBaaron's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pscorbett ➑️
Not a LDC, but I was trying experimenting with some of my "drum/guitar" mics on vocals the other day, and noticed to what extent the Heil PR22 and PR30 have a scooped low-midrange. The PR30 has a bit more bottom end, and overall smoother sound to my ears. They are not too dissimilar from a LDC in terms of sound. Plenty of treble/air/clarity, and using the proximity effect, you can dial in a suitable amount of bottom end (much like an SM7-B I'd imagine).

That said, I still can't see me using them nearly as much as my Lauten Oceanus and C414. I'd love an Atlantis one day. Seems like a promising, versatile mic. Happy hunting!
Thanks! I have a PR-40 and it's getting there, but gets a little pointy on vocals when driven hard & compressed (that said, I absolutely love that mic on big guitar cabs that are kind of bassy). I've been meaning to check out the rest of the Heil line, so maybe I'll give the others you mention a shot.

Lauten Atlantis is definitely in the running. The graph looks right, the demos sound just right, the flexibility is there, and the price is doable (anything over 2K would be a little tough). On the other hand, after Nathan's R84 suggestion, I dug out my Shiny box 46-MXL and was surprised to find that with the same signal chain and settings I use for the SM-7, the ribbon sounded even better, smoother. So I'm curious to try a R84 for comparison just because by all accounts, it's pretty much awesome at everything, and goes for just over 1K.
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #19
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RedBaaron's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoria89 ➑️
The Blue Kiwi has a noticeable dip in this area. No Mud, and the top end is airy, but not harsh. Like a modern 87ai, but with a slightly less forward sound.
It looks like from the charts on Blue Microphones Kiwi | RecordingHacks.com that, like the TLM-103, it's pretty even in the low mids, though it has a presence boot around 5k that probably makes it seem like there is a dip in the low-mids by comparison. My only concern with using something with presence boost is that it may get a little s***** on the way in with too much gain. Perhaps I'm better of with sticking with something that's smooth all-around or even a little warm and then notching out the mud afterwards. Seems to be working pretty well with the ShinyBox ribbon that way. Though I do hate taking it down every time and know it's only a matter of time before my dumb @$$ knocks over the mic stand.
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #20
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RedBaaron's Avatar
 
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans ➑️
No LDCs but ... try a kickdrum mic. I know that a few of those are used regularly as vocal mics. Give it a try and lowcut to taste. Another way would be a 'kickpad' in tandem with any LDC.
Interesting suggestion with the kickpad. I've never used one. I'll have to grab one and experiment...
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #21
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron ➑️
On the other hand, after Nathan's R84 suggestion, I dug out my Shiny box 46-MXL and was surprised to find that with the same signal chain and settings I use for the SM-7, the ribbon sounded even better, smoother. So I'm curious to try a R84 for comparison just because by all accounts, it's pretty much awesome at everything, and goes for just over 1K.
Ribbons are great!! Also check out the new AEA N22. It's a bit more present in the high mids and less low frequency proximity boost for working closer to the source (still with the ribbon character).

AEA N22 NUVO Series Ribbon Microphone – Products – AEA Big Ribbon Mics™ and Mic Preamps
Old 3rd March 2014
  #22
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guitarboy94's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Check out the Studio Projects CS1. It's got a 300HZ rolloff option. I've noticed that it really helps clear up the mud on my own vocals. PM if interested in more details. It's a fabulous mic for not much coin.
Old 4th March 2014 | Show parent
  #23
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy94 ➑️
Check out the Studio Projects CS1. It's got a 300HZ rolloff option. I've noticed that it really helps clear up the mud on my own vocals. PM if interested in more details. It's a fabulous mic for not much coin.
Right on. Does it just notch out at around 300 or does it cut everything below?

I have a T3 that got a little busted up in too many moves, and been meaning to send it off for a repair. The two guys (brothers I think?) really nice, offered to do a fix for a flat $75, which is a heck a lot worse than buying a new mic. Especially considering I bought it used.
Old 4th March 2014 | Show parent
  #24
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RedBaaron's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred ➑️
Ribbons are great!! Also check out the new AEA N22. It's a bit more present in the high mids and less low frequency proximity boost for working closer to the source (still with the ribbon character).

AEA N22 NUVO Series Ribbon Microphone – Products – AEA Big Ribbon Micsβ„’ and Mic Preamps
Always smooth, those ribbons. Which do think would be better [pick between the two Aea's ? My pockets don't reach so deep these days.

I put the 421 up again with the same signal chain the ribbon and the SM7, and wow, I would almost say that nails it perfectly. It's an older one, a 421-U (if that makes a difference). Not as much warmth or smoothness as the ribbon but scooped in just the right places.
Old 4th March 2014 | Show parent
  #25
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron ➑️
Always smooth, those ribbons. Which do think would be better [pick between the two Aea's ? My pockets don't reach so deep these days.
It depends on how you approach things. The R84 has a bigger proximity so the closer you get to the source (i.e. within 18 inches or less) the bigger it gets in the lows. Not a woofy kind of low end, but definitely round. Along with that is the sound will have more front to back depth just because of the placement. You can use the R84 up close, but it will definitely need a pop filter and you might want to angle it at least 20 degrees if up close (less than a foot).

The N22 is made for more 'modern' methods - up close to the source (less proximity boost, a bit more high mid pronounced, and a lot more protection from wind velocity to the ribbon). Think of it kind of like 65/35 ribbon/mellow vibe LDC.
Old 4th March 2014 | Show parent
  #26
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RedBaaron's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred ➑️
It depends on how you approach things. The R84 has a bigger proximity so the closer you get to the source (i.e. within 18 inches or less) the bigger it gets in the lows. Not a woofy kind of low end, but definitely round. Along with that is the sound will have more front to back depth just because of the placement. You can use the R84 up close, but it will definitely need a pop filter and you might want to angle it at least 20 degrees if up close (less than a foot).

The N22 is made for more 'modern' methods - up close to the source (less proximity boost, a bit more high mid pronounced, and a lot more protection from wind velocity to the ribbon). Think of it kind of like 65/35 ribbon/mellow vibe LDC.
I almost always insist on doing right at 18 inches with extra gain to compensate, so there's a pretty pickle.

i guess if the ole lady will let me, I may have to spring for the AER84. i mean, a living legend for just over a cool grand.

But for now, I think I'll have to make due with the toys I have assembled before me.Sucks to be a working stiff. Maybe when the tax man pulls through for me...
Old 4th March 2014 | Show parent
  #27
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron ➑️
I almost always insist on doing right at 18 inches with extra gain to compensate, so there's a pretty pickle.

i guess if the ole lady will let me, I may have to spring for the AER84. i mean, a living legend for just over a cool grand.

But for now, I think I'll have to make due with the toys I have assembled before me.Sucks to be a working stiff. Maybe when the tax man pulls through for me...

It's very balanced at 18 inches. If there is too much room from the fig 8 pattern, I've had great luck just hanging a packing blanket at head height behind my head, behind the mic, or both.
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