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Can a fantastic drummer make Vdrums sound good
Old 14th June 2013 | Show parent
  #781
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
if a drum library doesn't normalize its samples and the engine has a midi velocity to level mechanism, when you change a velocity curve or note velocity, you're effecting two unrelated velocity maps. you're also effectively selecting different samples.
Old 29th June 2013
  #782
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cjogo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Been behind a E drum since the 80/90's -- it all what you get use to. I have a TRAP KAT and TD 3 and a SPD 20 ... nothing wrong with the samples or the action on the pads. I even donated my 1964 Ludwig Ringo set > to a local studio. Studio or Live ... I much prefer E drums.
Old 29th June 2013
  #783
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Another Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8qU0VcbhBY

We got to perform in coke studio. Our drummer played Td-30 roland. You can hear how the drums sound. Sorry about heavy vocal tuning, and the language.
Old 29th June 2013
  #784
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Another Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8qU0VcbhBY

We got to perform in coke studio. Our drummer played Td-30 roland. You can hear how the drums sound. Sorry about heavy vocal tuning, and the language.
Old 29th June 2013
  #785
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cjogo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Trap Kat to a K2500 Kurzweil
IRON BUTTERFLY MONTEREY STRINGS - YouTube

I found out years ago > you could not approach E drums as the old acoustic kit you were accustomed to. Hats worked totally different / splashes /etc. Had to re-trained myself for over 20+ years. Finally purchased a couple of mesh heads : had start over again for control /approach. Used rubber tip sticks to keep the noise down in the studio ///
Old 30th June 2013 | Show parent
  #786
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarmad ➑️
Another Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8qU0VcbhBY

We got to perform in coke studio. Our drummer played Td-30 roland. You can hear how the drums sound. Sorry about heavy vocal tuning, and the language.
Wow, fantastic band! I think the dhol drumming in Pakistan/India is the original hip hop!
I play with a singer named Sukhawat Ali Khan from Pakistan here in California. Great to hear what is going on there!

Peter Warren
Old 30th June 2013 | Show parent
  #787
Gear Maniac
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrunskill ➑️
Yes, of course they can sound good. It’s just triggered samples at the end of the day, and how many million good sounding records use drum samples?

I record guitar-oriented material, and I find that, if the song as a whole is tight and in the pocket, it doesn't matter if the drums and bass are programmed to be played by virtual instuments.
The most important thing about percussion, is that it has a good feel and that it is tight. Whether a drum sample is actually performed by a breathing human, is of extremely secondary importance.
However, canned drums can sound lame if the programmer tries to get too flashy, because it is hard to maintain a human-like feels with a busy, snare-roll filled drum pattern.
In fact, in my own stuff, I know I have my drums dialed in when I don't notice them; they just blend into the organic whole of the song.
Like bass, drums generally, in pop music, are best heard but not seen.

I used to play my own bass parts, which were good enough but, as a guitar player, I didn't want to spend time playing bass when I would rather play guitar (life is short).
So, I started programming my bass parts using realistic bass sounds, which, when one uses the right VSTi (most suck), the results are slammin and authentic and way more virtuosic than what a human bass player could achieve. BTW, kudos to Steinberg Halion.

In a tight, groovin song, the whole band is the percussion, with drums being the final cement.
It's the beat that matters, not the beater.
Old 1st July 2013 | Show parent
  #788
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Muser's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjogo ➑️
Trap Kat to a K2500 Kurzweil
if you get a chance, try a Kurzweil ME-1. the kits and percussion in them are really pretty good. it's a small unit so it might save you some hassle. as long as your Trap Kat can do all the note assigning, you should be ok.
Old 1st July 2013 | Show parent
  #789
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cjogo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser ➑️
if you get a chance, try a Kurzweil ME-1. the kits and percussion in them are really pretty good. it's a small unit so it might save you some hassle. as long as your Trap Kat can do all the note assigning, you should be ok.
thanks -- I remember them --mainly for piano/organ samples.but they have decent drums also...
Old 2nd July 2013
  #790
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks pw2005. I'll check out Sukhawat Ali khan!
Old 4th July 2013
  #791
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hi

I use an electronic drum kit as a controller but using ezdrummer as the sound source (I am the drummer) after the recording I break the midi to parts and make it audio processing it with analog gear. Some expensive some not so. I don't know to me the result is fine but I think you have to get the trick to understand how the drums respond and then you can get decent track. At least all the clients that I have start by being skeptical but after they hear the result they feel fine. I even made a Rock EP that way and nobody ever asked me whether the drums are fake.
Old 4th July 2013
  #792
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Old 4th July 2013 | Show parent
  #793
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
they can sound a lot more "realistic" than:

- a singer with autotune
- an electronic keyboard trying to emulate real instruments
etc
Old 13th July 2013
  #794
Gear Head
 
Alek75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Finally I found a nice thread.

I just bought for my studio a v-drum.
I know it won't sound as good as a new one but there are some points:

to sound as good as these sound you have to use pro studio. And I mean PRO not mid.
For some genre anyway you end up triggering the drum to quantise or change sound.

My only issue now is setup. I bought a nice Jobeky drum with Roland Cymbals and I got an Alesis Trigger I/O.

But some how the response isn't so good yet especially the velocity gain a curve.
Not sure if the Alesis is the issue but I'l struggling to find help on how to setup the trigger from the Alesis.

As for sounds I use Addictive Drums and Native Instruments Drum

Still haven't tried BFD2
Old 13th July 2013
  #795
Gear Head
 
Alek75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Finally I found a nice thread.

I just bought for my studio a v-drum.
I know it won't sound as good as a new one but there are some points:

to sound as good as these sound you have to use pro studio. And I mean PRO not mid.
For some genre anyway you end up triggering the drum to quantise or change sound.

My only issue now is setup. I bought a nice Jobeky drum with Roland Cymbals and I got an Alesis Trigger I/O.

But some how the response isn't so good yet especially the velocity gain a curve.
Not sure if the Alesis is the issue but I'l struggling to find help on how to setup the trigger from the Alesis.

As for sounds I use Addictive Drums and Native Instruments Drum

Still haven't tried BFD2
Old 13th July 2013 | Show parent
  #796
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alek75 ➑️
I just bought for my studio a v-drum.
I know it won't sound as good as a new one but there are some points:
if you are triggering samples from a library, why would the 'new' v-drum sound better than a used one?
Old 14th July 2013 | Show parent
  #797
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alek75 ➑️
Finally I found a nice thread.

I just bought for my studio a v-drum.
I know it won't sound as good as a new one but there are some points:

to sound as good as these sound you have to use pro studio. And I mean PRO not mid.
For some genre anyway you end up triggering the drum to quantise or change sound.

My only issue now is setup. I bought a nice Jobeky drum with Roland Cymbals and I got an Alesis Trigger I/O.

But some how the response isn't so good yet especially the velocity gain a curve.
Not sure if the Alesis is the issue but I'l struggling to find help on how to setup the trigger from the Alesis.

As for sounds I use Addictive Drums and Native Instruments Drum

Still haven't tried BFD2
The triggering issue is the Alesis unit. You might be able to adjust it and get good response. The hi hat is single zone as well. A used roland td4 will work great for about $200. The td9 is good as well. Even the td6 will be better than the Alesis. Yamaha is great too but you need their pads. The new DTX502 module is $250 and triggers great.

Peter
Old 14th July 2013 | Show parent
  #798
Gear Head
 
Alek75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
if you are triggering samples from a library, why would the 'new' v-drum sound better than a used one?
Sorry new= real/acoustic drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by pw2005 ➑️
The triggering issue is the Alesis unit. You might be able to adjust it and get good response. The hi hat is single zone as well. A used roland td4 will work great for about $200. The td9 is good as well. Even the td6 will be better than the Alesis. Yamaha is great too but you need their pads. The new DTX502 module is $250 and triggers great.

Peter
Yep it seems Alesis can't use my VH-11 in full same as other Roland Cymbals.
I was thinking about the Td-11 module. It's a good choice? I don't need sounds samples but at this point I don't wanna make twice the same mistake and going for a less performant trigger.

cheers guys
Old 14th July 2013 | Show parent
  #799
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alek75 ➑️

But some how the response isn't so good yet especially the velocity gain a curve.
Not sure if the Alesis is the issue but I'l struggling to find help on how to setup the trigger from the Alesis.
it might be better to use a linear curve on the Alesis if it has one. that way you will get all 128 velocities. any midi curve starts to use less midi velocities because it doubles/tripples/quadruples etc, on certain ones to get the curve. technically it would be better if the drum sample software had a velocity to gain curve. some also have a midi vel curve map as well, but that is the same as missing midi velocities out. at least it's in the software though, so it could be saved with a patch there. linear midi velocity to dB gain should give better fine grain control. then use the softwares midi curve if that doesn't yield enough expression. it can be tricky but that's how it is.
Old 14th July 2013 | Show parent
  #800
Gear Head
 
Alek75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser ➑️
it might be better to use a linear curve on the Alesis if it has one. that way you will get all 128 velocities. any midi curve starts to use less midi velocities because it doubles/tripples/quadruples etc, on certain ones to get the curve. technically it would be better if the drum sample software had a velocity to gain curve. some also have a midi vel curve map as well, but that is the same as missing midi velocities out. at least it's in the software though, so it could be saved with a patch there. linear midi velocity to dB gain should give better fine grain control. then use the softwares midi curve if that doesn't yield enough expression. it can be tricky but that's how it is.
muser thanks for the help.
I've just noticed that the issue with the VH-11 is the program change. But isn't an Alesis issue it just need to be "learned" by my Addictive drums (as you can see from the attachment it can be done. And same thing for my NI studio drummer. I'll try today to set it up and let you know.
Attached Thumbnails
Can a fantastic drummer make Vdrums sound good-screen-shot-2013-07-14-11.27.59.png  
Old 14th July 2013
  #801
Gear Head
 
Alek75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
ok now vh-11 hh works like a charme on AD but i can't find where i can change the cc in the ni abbey road. anyone knows where i can find this option?

(btw maybe i'm ot here? should i open a new thread?)
Old 31st July 2013
  #802
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
2 Box drums all the wayyyyyyyy !!!!!
Old 6th August 2013
  #803
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Stevil's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i'll side skirt the whole "authentic" sounding issue & say 'a fantastic sampler/programmer can make electronic drums sound good'. make them do what they do best & load them up with glitchy tweaky sounds, drum machines & weird noises. have fun!
Old 6th August 2013
  #804
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Admittedly I didn't read this whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating someone else.

V-drums themselves? The answer is no. They're neat and all, but the sound modules they ship with are terribly unconvincing sounding.

If you're using the Vdrums or a Trapkat to trigger other, better samples, you certainly do get closer if you go back for editing in terms of velocities etc, but cymbal work is more often than not a pretty easy giveaway that someone used samples (if you're listening for it). Hats especially, as well as ride-like patterns on crash cymbals, swells, etc. None of that translates particularly well.

Then again, depending on what's being played, these might be non-issues.
Old 30th August 2013
  #805
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
As far as I'm concerned, if they're good enough for Neil Peart, they are perfectly ok for little old me!
Old 31st August 2013 | Show parent
  #806
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
What studio headphones are recommended with the V-Drums?
Old 31st August 2013
  #807
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I use a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones and they work well with V-drums. You could also check out the vdrums.com forum for advice.
Old 1st September 2013
  #808
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Beat Poet's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
He's playing a Yamaha DTX, but Kenny Aronoff sounds good at Kenny Aronoff "Functional Practicing" - Drumeo Edge (Yamaha DTX Drums) - YouTube
Old 2nd November 2015
  #809
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Superior Drummer 2.4 volume issues.
Why does my drums sound so quiet in SD2 even when velocity is set to 127?
Old 3rd November 2015 | Show parent
  #810
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by White ➑️
Superior Drummer 2.4 volume issues.
Why does my drums sound so quiet in SD2 even when velocity is set to 127?
Are you using an Edrum midi preset? What E drum do you have? Check the velocity output from your module.
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