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Beats Per Minute
Old 30th January 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Beats Per Minute

Is BPM a constant standard time? It's my understanding that each audio program beats a little differently, but lets say that you rendered the click to an audio file at 97 BPM from PT, Logic, and Cubase, then tabbed to the
transient and aligned each rendered file on a grid, would they match up?

Thanks,
H
Old 31st January 2013
  #2
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skyshaver's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This apple support thread goes into a great deal of depth regarding this issue.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0
Old 31st January 2013
  #3
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Nick Morris's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've never checked, but I sure would hope that they match up. 97 beats per minute sounds pretty definite, why would it be different? The internal timing of the system?
Old 31st January 2013
  #4
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Beat Poet's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I find there's always difference of a few hundreds or even thousands of a second, but a quick bit of beatmapping locks everything right in.
Old 31st January 2013
  #5
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Pollo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This seems like an easy question to answer. If everything would always match perfectly, why do we need WordClock and such to sync stuff together?

So I think you are safe to assume that unless you sync DAW's one to the other, the BPM's are never going to align perfectly. The difference might be small but one sample off already gives you that phasey sound. (which can be great of course, if that's what you're looking for)
Old 31st January 2013
  #6
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Welp, I've imported many people's sessions into Pro Tools from Sonar, Fruity Loops, Reaper, Cubase, Ableton, Garageband and the bpm they give me always works and downbeats end up locking to the grid. Β―\(Β°_o)/Β―
Old 31st January 2013
  #7
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Nick Morris's Avatar
 
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You wouldn't really hear a difference in that situation.
Old 1st February 2013
  #8
Dan
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There's two different things going on here. If you're trying to lock to DAWs together that are playing at the same time, then yes, having the same frame rate, and clocking the systems together is needed. If you're taking audio files generated from 1 software, and transferring to another, then there's a difference in how tempos are calculated.
Some tempos are evenly divisible by a given sample rate, some aren't. How that tempo is rounded to fit a sample rate is calculated differently in different applications.
If you export the midi from Finale, for instance, into Protools you'll often see tempos like 78.008 in Protools, when in Finale it was 78. That's because 44,100x60/4 isn't evenly divisible by 78, and DAWs don't do intra-sample beats. (These numbers are for illustration, and not accurate.)
Another symptom of this shows up with looping audio files. Loops don't always fit neatly into grids.
While it would be great if there were a standard way of dealing with this, but that would involve companies working together, and agreeing on things.
Old 1st February 2013
  #9
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StudioRay's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have to agree with DaveE - when I import people's stuff from other programs and I am given a tempo with it, it always lines up. (I use Nuendo)

The OP didn't ask about perfect word clock sync, he asked if, "tabbed to the transient and aligned each rendered file on a grid, would they match up?" And my experience is that the answer is always yes.
Old 1st February 2013
  #10
Dan
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Do you mean you're given a midi file with it, or they tell you the tempo? I have the same experience when receiving a midi file (all is good) but the readout of the tempo will often have added decimal places. I see it most often when importing from DP, but admittedly, I have much more experience between these two apps than others.
Old 1st February 2013 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollo ➑️
This seems like an easy question to answer. If everything would always match perfectly, why do we need WordClock and such to sync stuff together?
word clock is syncing things together at the sample level so that you don't get pops or clicks when the digital streams merge

BPMs are macro by comparison - - at 120 BPM, there are 22,050 samples in between each and every beat, for example

I have regularly taken audio files from Wherever and guessed at their BPM, done a little nudging and gotten them to hold steady to my grid for the length of a song - for all practical musical purposes

if there is a drift, I would suspect one machine was set to drop frame or something. I have only rarely encountered a significant drift on some longer songs that required me to cut and nudge the audio a little bit.


Quote:
So I think you are safe to assume that unless you sync DAW's one to the other, the BPM's are never going to align perfectly. The difference might be small but one sample off already gives you that phasey sound.
with a one sample error, you are only going to get a phasey sound if the same piece of audio is going to be imported from BOTH programs. It doesn't sound like this is what the OP is doing.

if you are importing drums from "DAW A" and laying in some keyboards in "DAW B" the keyboards are not going to phase against the drums. Nor will you hear a rhythmic problem in a drift of a couple of samples.
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