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Room acoustics MYTHS and what is a HIGH QUALITY MONITOR TOOL for you ?
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #211
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➑️
I read him differently, I thought he was simply encouraging the guy to keep making his art regardless of the state-of-the-state.
sorry if I was unclear

I think Unclenny is spot on in looking for priorities and also in being encouraging for those who have not checked everything off their list yet, which after all, is most of us! My point was taking off from his thought to say that getting a handle on those priorities is harder when people try to say it is all a MYTH.

By the time I got to talking about the conspiracy theorists I was referring not to Unclenny's post but back to the OP and to the general tone behind all the "doesn't matter" threads, including this one, where the role of the Illuminati is apparently to be played by the "Room Treatment People"
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #212
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️

By the time I got to talking about the conspiracy theorists I was referring not to Unclenny's post but back to the OP and to the general tone behind all the "doesn't matter" threads, including this one, where the role of the Illuminati is apparently to be played by the "Room Treatment People"
I think that ROOM TREATMENT PEOPLE should also talk about the quality of the monitors used (how it affects monitoring) and the effects of using poor monitors in top notch rooms...
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #213
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jrhager84's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
I think that ROOM TREATMENT PEOPLE should also talk about the quality of the monitors used (how it affects monitoring) and the effects of using poor monitors in top notch rooms...
The problem is simple, though. Those who spend the money to effectively treat their rooms, generally have enough know-how to realize that good monitoring is equally important, and have thus budgeted that as well. I can't think of anybody off the top of my head that uses BX5s in a 200,000 dollar space...

It really does go without saying, that one who realizes the need for treatment, will equally realize the need for accurate monitoring...
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris ➑️
Most monitors exhibit very similar playback characteristics. (This is one of the reasons that monitors are one of the most personal choices in deciding which to use. ) the speakers "problems" are so small and insignificant compared to the unusable filtering/ringing a room can provide if not properly designed/treated.
I agree that to have good monitoring, one has to have good rooms + great precise speakers, but saying that the problems with speaker designs are insignificant, is APPALLING.

The speakers are the most prone to distortion in the whole monitoring signal chain and have the most coloring happening, and tons of other problems due to speaker design (QTS of drivers and how they interact with enclosures, box coloring, transient representation, cross over distortions, doppler distortions, and the list is very long), and those are NO INSIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS.

People have understood this in the HIFI domain and everytime people are creating advances in technologies which greatly reduce those problems. If it was so insignificant, why would one ever invest so much time and research money in solving those problems ?

As this wise person said said :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr ➑️

The big trouble with listening to audio coming out of speakers is that until you actually hear something better, you have no gauge to know what is achievable.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #215
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 ➑️
The problem is simple, though. Those who spend the money to effectively treat their rooms, generally have enough know-how to realize that good monitoring is equally important, and have thus budgeted that as well. I can't think of anybody off the top of my head that uses BX5s in a 200,000 dollar space...

It really does go without saying, that one who realizes the need for treatment, will equally realize the need for accurate monitoring...
I fully agree

But, based on this user for example, I don't think that people really understand what you just said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris ➑️

Now take any mediocre speaker and put it in a good room. what you will be hearing is mostly the monitors true voice. Most monitors exhibit very similar playback characteristics. (This is one of the reasons that monitors are one of the most personal choices in deciding which to use. ) the speakers "problems" are so small and insignificant compared to the unusable filtering/ringing a room can provide if not properly designed/treated.

So what would choose, A pair of incredible monitors that you can't even hear 60 or 150hz out of and 40 and 100hz is 25db too loud

Get the room right and everything else is cake
You see what I mean
Old 5th February 2013
  #216
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🎧 10 years
Well, the problem I see is, that the room is really the X-factor in the whole thing. You can usually 'tell' actively if a speaker is bad, hyped, tinny, harsh, thin, etc. The room just kind of passively manipulates everything, and can easily trick you, even IF you know about it. I think the point illustrated is, speaker distortion/etc is FAR more predictable and recognizable than a room with acoustic problems. That's how I took it. Maybe I'm wrong... <shrugs>
Old 5th February 2013
  #217
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Nick Morris's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 ➑️
Well, the problem I see is, that the room is really the X-factor in the whole thing. You can usually 'tell' actively if a speaker is bad, hyped, tinny, harsh, thin, etc. The room just kind of passively manipulates everything, and can easily trick you, even IF you know about it. I think the point illustrated is, speaker distortion/etc is FAR more predictable and recognizable than a room with acoustic problems. That's how I took it. Maybe I'm wrong... <shrugs>
+1.

The speakers problems are insignificant COMPARED to the problems the room can create.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #218
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 ➑️
Well, the problem I see is, that the room is really the X-factor in the whole thing. You can usually 'tell' actively if a speaker is bad, hyped, tinny, harsh, thin, etc. The room just kind of passively manipulates everything, and can easily trick you, even IF you know about it. I think the point illustrated is, speaker distortion/etc is FAR more predictable and recognizable than a room with acoustic problems. That's how I took it. Maybe I'm wrong... <shrugs>
Most of people don't hear what box resonance is cause they have never listened to open baffle speakers or super high grade speakers which eliminate box resonance. Most people don't know what a fast impulse time represents in a speaker. Many don't know if some speakers have certain resonances in their frequency representation. Those are only a few problems ...

By what I have seen in the whole thread, only very few people are aware about those issues, and they are not as simple as most people think.

People don't know how colored their speakers are unless they experience the top of the range speakers.

As someone said so wisely:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr ➑️

The big trouble with listening to audio coming out of speakers is that until you actually hear something better, you have no gauge to know what is achievable.
Great words!



So guys,onstead of assuming that speaker design is insignificant, please inform yourselves a bit, at least learn from some of the great post and posters who share knowledge on this thread.
Old 5th February 2013
  #219
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Nick Morris's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
Most of people don't hear what box resonance is cause they have never listened to open baffle speakers or super high grade speakers which eliminate box resonance. Most people don't know what a fast impulse time represents in a speaker. Many don't know if some speakers have certain resonances in their frequency representation. Those are only a few problems ...

By what I have seen in the whole thread, only very few people are aware about those issues, and they are not as simple as most people think.

People don't know how colored their speakers are unless they experience the top of the range speakers.

As someone said so wisely:
But you are not seeing the big picture here.

Yes, a great speaker is a wonderful thing, but it is part of a system that must include an adequate room. otherwise that great speaker, with its glorious uncolored, box resonance eliminated sound, is filtered by the room and in turn less accurate than most mediocre studio monitors in a great room.

It is understood that most speakers have their shortcomings, flaws, and workarounds. No one assumes that just having a great room gives you perfect accuracy in monitoring.

Maybe we have a difference in definition of a mediocre speaker and a great speaker. Perhaps your mediocre speaker is something totally unusable and that would make a little more sense.

What is an example of your great speakers you use?

In my opinion, An example of a mediocre speaker would be Adam S3a. They work pretty well, but with some obvious limitations and colorations. In a great room, great results
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #220
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
I think that ROOM TREATMENT PEOPLE should also talk about the quality of the monitors used (how it affects monitoring) and the effects of using poor monitors in top notch rooms...
the "Room Treatment People" are strawmen you created for the purpose of showing off your self-proclaimed 'superior' knowledge of speaker design. You are just as much of a snob as the people you are complaining about.

In any case, these mythical conspirators are no excuse for denigrating the contribution of the actual space you are listening in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️

Instead of assuming that speaker design is insignificant, please inform yourselves a bit, at least learn from some of the great post and posters who share knowledge on this thread.
Only your elusive Acoustics Illuminati are saying speaker design is "insignificant". Everyone else is simply objecting to YOUR implications that the room is insignificant.

At the highest levels, the main speakers are built into the walls in a system where the room size, shape, dimensions and the speakers themselves are all part of a unified design.
Old 5th February 2013
  #221
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Nick Morris's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️


Only your elusive Acoustics Illuminati are saying speaker design is "insignificant". Everyone else is simply objecting to YOUR implications that the room is insignificant.

At the highest levels, the main speakers are built into the walls in a system where the room size, shape, dimensions and the speakers themselves are all part of a unified design.
^^^
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #222
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hans_beiger's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
t YOUR implications that the room is insignificant.
Please tell me where you have read that ? facts please ? I beg you to enlighten my path
Old 5th February 2013
  #223
Gear Head
 
jasonxoc's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
NO TROLLS PLEASE
ahhh master troll at work

I invested in treatment and there's a MASSIVE difference in my ability to clearly hear what's going on.

Work smarter and harder... get good gear and treat your room... why argue against the validity of acoustic treatment?
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #224
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hans_beiger's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonxoc ➑️
ahhh master troll at work

I invested in treatment and there's a MASSIVE difference in my ability to clearly hear what's going on.

Work smarter and harder... get good gear and treat your room... why argue against the validity of acoustic treatment?
Where did I say that acoustic treatment was not valid Sir ? please show me
Old 5th February 2013
  #225
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Nick Morris's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
Where did I say that acoustic treatment was not valid Sir ? please show me

So we agree then, the room needs to be designed and treated properly along with sound decisions in choosing a speaker system. A speaker can/will have many limitations shaping, distorting a signal, revealing the speakers own sound. These "problems" are not as detrimental to the monitoring accuracy as a poor room would be.

Great, now that's over. ATC SCM300 sound incredible to me. Dynaudio m4 is no slouch either.
Old 5th February 2013
  #226
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ddageek's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hans your trying to make people write a rule where the bottom line is about individual aesthetic preferences and individual institutional dynamics are the norm!

Most of the professionals around here understand that out in the real world the argument is moot because in most cases we deal with situations where the room and the monitors are in some way a compromise and still make recordings that for some strange reason people seam to like!

Any experienced freelancer knows he has to work with what he is given, and part of that skill set is knowing and ajusting to an imperfect room/ monitors.We have all been in "tuned rooms" with great monitors that have sucked, and all the other possible combinations, and still make recordings!

A better thread would be how do you deal with rooms/speakers you never worked with before, and learn about how to listen!

The worst piece of advice I've heard is to listen to great speakers and learn what cheap speakers do wrong!
My Magnepan 3.5rs sound nothing like my Questeds,which sound nothing like my Vandersteens whic sounded nothing like the 12in Tannoys I sold, that Sound Nothing like the Induction Dynamics my neighbor builds which sound nothing Like BradDs Focal Twins or my other Neighbors Proacs or the guy down the streets B&Ws and its not because their rooms are different!
The Secret is to listen to real live music unplugged! thats how you learn what any speaker be it ATC or POS! thats what pros do and how I know all the speakers I mentioned earlier are Awesome yet Flawed!
Thats how those great recordings came out of rooms the size of my bathroom, the guys that made them new what they were hearing ment was on the tape, even if they couldn't hear it, that was their skill!
Old 5th February 2013
  #227
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🎧 15 years
I think the point I'm trying to make is that I'd take grade A speakers in a grade C room over grade B speakers in a grade A room. If I had a grade D or E room, moving to a different location would probably be cheaper than trying to treat the room.
Old 5th February 2013
  #228
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🎧 10 years
Hans, I also think personal taste/hearing comes into play as well. I mean, you're assuming that a better speaker can be heard (and enjoyed) by all... There are engineers that can't hear above 15k. There are also people that still mix on ns10s <shudder>. The point is, the flatter the room, the more you can hear how the speaker itself translates to other playback systems...

It's a very personal and subjective experience with speakers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
Old 5th February 2013
  #229
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Nick Morris's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson ➑️
I think the point I'm trying to make is that I'd take grade A speakers in a grade C room over grade B speakers in a grade A room. If I had a grade D or E room, moving to a different location would probably be cheaper than trying to treat the room.
Because of the way we all label things differently, this is probably why there is so much confusion. Your grade speakers could be my grade c speakers, and my grade a room could be your c.

Until you a person has experienced an A on both sides, how can you know what each person is really talking about?
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #230
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hans_beiger's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris ➑️
Because of the way we all label things differently, this is probably why there is so much confusion. Your grade speakers could be my grade c speakers, and my grade a room could be your c.

Until you a person has experienced an A on both sides, how can you know what each person is really talking about?
Exactly!! People who hear grade A speakers though find it very very difficult listening to grade C speakers(for me Focal Twins as an example).

My friends who have experienced the purity and honesty or grade A speakers have their lives changed, it's hard for any of us to hear faulty speakers.

It's a blessing as well as a curse cause most of people don't get what you try to say.
Old 5th February 2013
  #231
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Nick Morris's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
Exactly!! People who hear grade A speakers though find it very very difficult listening to grade C speakers(for me Focal Twins as an example).

My friends who have experienced the purity and honesty or grade A speakers have their lives changed, it's hard for any of us to hear faulty speakers.

It's a blessing as well as a curse cause most of people don't get what you try to say.
+1 to that. Once you've hear the best, the last thing you want to do is take a step back. With speakers, it is definitely more noticeable for many people regarding the quality of the speaker system than the quality of a room - even though the room can have much more damaging effects.
Old 6th February 2013 | Show parent
  #232
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hans, I understand you are having a hard time compromising with speaker quality but a studio as others have said is all about making the best out of what you have available (I think I mentioned "picking your poisen" earlier in the thread). As such it's going to be VERY subjective as to where to allocate resources best. Bob has mentioned his compromise would be an "A" grade speaker with a "C" grade room while others have chimed in with a different preference. Neither choice is wrong, they are just "picking THEIR poisen" and thats not even considering all the other many variables like the size/distance/type of speaker preference/debate too (I thought Bob in a past thread mentioned he liked passive midfields but maybe he will chime in on that tangent).

While it may be hard to shut off the analytical side of your mind, we still also have to enjoy listening to music regardless of the playback system and space to do our jobs better. There are times low quality drives me nuts too but I'm able to shut that aspect out and just focus on the music itself. Maybe my musical background helps with that trick but who knows. I do know that if I'm having a conversation with someone and there is background music going on, part of my attention is still listening to the music (gift/curse). I've mentioned in prior threads here that when I listen to the classic song "Louie Louie" it always seems to get my foot tapping. Now I don't think you could make that song sound good with an "A" speaker in an "A" room or even a perfect speaker in a perfect room (if they ever do get made), given it's poor recording and even worse vocals (the FBI here spent 5 million dollars trying to figure our the actual words sung and failed). I just focus on the music and enjoy the song despite my trained ears.

For casual listening while net surfing at the home computer I often listen to a local college radio station through a pair of very small KLH passive speakers at a fairly low volume (less than $25 new for the pair). I used the corner and side walls to best position those cheap small speakers to get the most out of them breaking a few of the common rules in the process. I mananged to get a decent sound and great imaging and my frame of reference probably helped greatly with achieving that result (It even sounds better than some home studio setups I've heard over the years). I don't concentrate on it's flaws (did you really think a pair of $25 speakers in an untreated room was going to be close to perfect?) and instead really enjoy the quality of that radio station's non- playlisted selections (I just enjoy the music most of which I have never heard before).

While the analytical part of the brain is very necessary for the work, so is the artistic side. A good song or performance should be able to be enjoyed regardless of monitering compromises so maybe try focusing on that aspect too when the curse stikes (or during full moons LOL). Engineering for the groove and dynamic performance experience is of equal importantance. There is emotion as well as tension and release in our performance too, if not we would still be wearing those white lab coats to work.
Old 6th February 2013 | Show parent
  #233
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hans_beiger's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr ➑️
Hans, I understand you are having a hard time compromising with speaker quality but a studio as others have said is all about making the best out of what you have available (I think I mentioned "picking your poisen" earlier in the thread). As such it's going to be VERY subjective as to where to allocate resources best. Bob has mentioned his compromise would be an "A" grade speaker with a "C" grade room while others have chimed in with a different preference. Neither choice is wrong, they are just "picking THEIR poisen" and thats not even considering all the other many variables like the size/distance/type of speaker preference/debate too (I thought Bob in a past thread mentioned he liked passive midfields but maybe he will chime in on that tangent).

While it may be hard to shut off the analytical side of your mind, we still also have to enjoy listening to music regardless of the playback system and space to do our jobs better. There are times low quality drives me nuts too but I'm able to shut that aspect out and just focus on the music itself. Maybe my musical background helps with that trick but who knows. I do know that if I'm having a conversation with someone and there is background music going on, part of my attention is still listening to the music (gift/curse). I've mentioned in prior threads here that when I listen to the classic song "Louie Louie" it always seems to get my foot tapping. Now I don't think you could make that song sound good with an "A" speaker in an "A" room or even a perfect speaker in a perfect room (if they ever do get made), given it's poor recording and even worse vocals (the FBI here spent 5 million dollars trying to figure our the actual words sung and failed). I just focus on the music and enjoy the song despite my trained ears.

For casual listening while net surfing at the home computer I often listen to a local college radio station through a pair of very small KLH passive speakers at a fairly low volume (less than $25 new for the pair). I used the corner and side walls to best position those cheap small speakers to get the most out of them breaking a few of the common rules in the process. I mananged to get a decent sound and great imaging and my frame of reference probably helped greatly with achieving that result (It even sounds better than some home studio setups I've heard over the years). I don't concentrate on it's flaws (did you really think a pair of $25 speakers in an untreated room was going to be close to perfect?) and instead really enjoy the quality of that radio station's non- playlisted selections (I just enjoy the music most of which I have never heard before).

While the analytical part of the brain is very necessary for the work, so is the artistic side. A good song or performance should be able to be enjoyed regardless of monitering compromises so maybe try focusing on that aspect too when the curse stikes (or during full moons LOL). Engineering for the groove and dynamic performance experience is of equal importantance. There is emotion as well as tension and release in our performance too, if not we would still be wearing those white lab coats to work.
Hi Bassmankr, I do understand what you are trying to say and those are fair points but we are not talking about enjoying music here but critical monitoring which translates to other systems.

Bob I am sure would pick this poison not really because of personal TASTE, but simply because the mix/masters done in those conditions have a better chance of translation, based on the person's many years of experience, when compared to other combinations.

Now one is again free to say that Bob does not know what he is talking about, but in practice, this method works based on his years of experience, so maybe we should have an open mind on it ?




By the way about mixing on monitor speakers to create "magic", if one uses a monitor system which is ported and have a certain slow response, and one would think that the groove is perfect because it is going along the speaker's "own" release times. But are you sure that it will groove the same on other speakers ?

The advantages of using precise/neutral monitoring from my experience is that if magic and beauty is created on very neutral speakers/good room, the magic has more of a chance to translate to other systems.

By the way, there might be magic in certain songs but did it ever happen that a glorious song, beautiful production and nice groove is spoiled by the engineering and causes the track to be extremely hard to enjoy because it simply hurts the ear(piercing) or sounds absolutely terrible and boomy, undefined and flabby in the clubs ?

Emotions, Magic, Groove, Dynamic Energy are things that all respectable engineers want to inject in their music but if monitored on very neutral systems, the chance of this magic being translated to other systems + the sound being intelligible on other systems is more likely to happen.

The alternative to having a superb reliable system is of course checking on multiple monitors, but working on a very good neutral system brings confidence and confidence in itself beings its own magic touch to the equation.

In a top notch room room, It is so much better to mix on speakers which are speaking the truth of the sound signal, rather than when using colored and boxy speakers on which you have to GUESS if the sound is right or not.
Old 6th February 2013 | Show parent
  #234
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
By the way about mixing on monitor speakers to create "magic", if one uses a monitor system which is ported and have a certain slow response, and one would think that the groove is perfect because it is going along the speaker's "own" release times. But are you sure that it will groove the same on other speakers ?
By the way, what did you think of the square wave impulse graph? Ported speaker slow?
Old 6th February 2013
  #235
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
Hi Bassmankr, I do understand what you are trying to say and those are fair points but we are not talking about enjoying music here but critical monitoring which translates to other systems.

Bob I am sure would pick this poison not really because of personal TASTE, but simply because the mix/masters done in those conditions have a better chance of translation, based on the person's many years of experience, when compared to other combinations.

Now one is again free to say that Bob does not know what he is talking about, but in practice, this method works based on his years of experience, so maybe we should have an open mind on it ?




By the way about mixing on monitor speakers to create "magic", if one uses a monitor system which is ported and have a certain slow response, and one would think that the groove is perfect because it is going along the speaker's "own" release times. But are you sure that it will groove the same on other speakers ?

The advantages of using precise/neutral monitoring from my experience is that if magic and beauty is created on very neutral speakers/good room, the magic has more of a chance to translate to other systems.

By the way, there might be magic in certain songs but did it ever happen that a glorious song, beautiful production and nice groove is spoiled by the engineering and causes the track to be extremely hard to enjoy because it simply hurts the ear(piercing) or sounds absolutely terrible and boomy, undefined and flabby in the clubs ?

Emotions, Magic, Groove, Dynamic Energy are things that all respectable engineers want to inject in their music but if monitored on very neutral systems, the chance of this magic being translated to other systems + the sound being intelligible on other systems is more likely to happen.

The alternative to having a superb reliable system is of course checking on multiple monitors, but working on a very good neutral system brings confidence and confidence in itself beings its own magic touch to the equation.

In a top notch room room, It is so much better to mix on speakers which are speaking the truth of the sound signal, rather than when using colored and boxy speakers on which you have to GUESS if the sound is right or not.
You're still on the straw man argument...no-one disagrees with your last statement...and maybe let bob talk for himself?
Old 6th February 2013 | Show parent
  #236
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➑️
By the way, what did you think of the square wave impulse graph? Ported speaker slow?
Hi Karloff, the impulse graph is absolutely impressive, there is a part of me which wants to believe and there is another part of me which knows how ported speakers behave and I will have to listen to them to make sure which part of my brain is right

The comparison is not fair though, I would love to see how the "MULTIWAY SPEAKER" behaves with the Cpr+Aoi technology :P
Old 6th February 2013 | Show parent
  #237
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans_beiger ➑️
Hi Karloff, the impulse graph is absolutely impressive, there is a part of me which wants to believe and there is another part of me which knows how ported speakers behave and I will have to listen to them to make sure which part of my brain is right

The comparison is not fair though, I would love to see how the "MULTIWAY SPEAKER" behaves with the Cpr+Aoi technology :P
I couldn't care less about fair. The things are not about to leave my studio and I can tell you now which part of your brain is right.
Old 6th February 2013
  #238
Lives for gear
 
jrhager84's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Are you using the A21Ms? How are those treating ya? I was thinking of going the A25M route until I can save my pennies for the mm27s, and then use the 25s as a b-speaker.
Old 6th February 2013 | Show parent
  #239
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 ➑️
Are you using the A21Ms? How are those treating ya? I was thinking of going the A25M route until I can save my pennies for the mm27s, and then use the 25s as a b-speaker.
They're tickling my back and making me smile. Love it.

You should try the A25's and mm27's side by side before you blindly assume the Barefoots will be an upgrade.......
Old 6th February 2013
  #240
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jrhager84's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It's true, but there's nowhere in Idaho that has either, and I don't exactly want to send 10k+ as a deposit to audition both here... Oh, first world problems...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
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