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Radial stops using Jensen transformer in JDI duplex?
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #211
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John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljefe ➡️
Haven't we had a thread here in which it was revealed that the Radial D.I.s are no longer phase accurate? I won't buy Radial in the future, as a matter of fact I just sold the last of my Radial stuff on Reverb. This is not what I expected, I always thought of Radial as solid stuff, solid company. They've changed my mind. Lots of people will do anything for money.
That's pretty ignorant - no transformer DI is "phase accurate" - that runs contrary to the way transformers function. There is always phase shift. In any transformer. What the nature of the shift is, now that's a somewhat different question, but as far as what most of those who are slagging Radial in this thread are concerned, I'd be extremely surprised if they could tell the difference.

The amount of nonsense "science" expounded around here can be quite staggering at times.
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi ➡️
The Jensen product promises phase accuracy. The Radial product promises no such thing. Very probably Radial is more honest than Jensen. Or are they? I don't know?
I suspect the real problem is that you don't fully understand the conterxt of what you're reading.

No transformer is"phase accurate" relative to the input signal and I doubt that Jensen would claim such a thing. I suspect that what they were actually talking about was phase consistency between different samples of the same product. To really understand what they mean you'd need to know how to correctly interpret a graphic plot of phase shift vs frequency - I'd bet that most people encounter such things and think "OH, a pretty, scientific looking graph/picture" without actually understanding what it means.

It's perfectly understandable why Radial would choose to omit a bit of technicalese that they feel the bulk of their customers won't understand and might be confused by.
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #213
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58 Reviews written
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio ➡️
People keep mentioning Jensen couldn't keep up..Then WHY were they on a 4 day work week, closed on Fridays?????
You don't reduce hours when you have plenty of work...You INCREASE your hours...what does that tell you??
Maybe they didn't have the liquid capital to pay workers for the additional time?

They were a small specialty company making a rather expensive line of products for a relatively limited market, and had almost certainly lost significant market share to companies making a much cheaper product that was being advertised as "almost as good" for half or 1/3 the money. Lundall, Cinemag, etc. Still good product (better than Chinese junk) but not azs good as Jensen - but much, much cheaper. Greatly beloved of the kind of person who's always asking "What's the best U47 clone I can get for $200? I'm sure you've encountered the type.

And then there's always the types who go for the cheaper transformer because they thing is "has more character"... which really means it's less accurate.

Radial, OTOH,.has the cash reserves to restore the line to full productivity.
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone ➡️
I don't get it...so his credits gives him some sort of super clairvoyance on consumer fraud?

So he becomes some sort of 'super Plush', with some sort of fancy P in front of his leotard and cape, and becomes Ralph Nader on steroids?
No, but they might suggest that he actually KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, which the vast majority of me-too naysayers in this slag-fest certainly do not.
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #215
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone ➡️
wtf...you got some sort of superiority complex?

...dude, that's the raison d'être for taking your stance?

Before you judge anyone who you have no idea about, pay attention to the reason for this thread...as far as I can tell, you've got no clue as to what the main issues are...nada, zilch...

Please make one comment on Radial's blatant bait and switch...just one, come on, I dare ya'...
There is no reason for this thread beyond the fact that some technically uninformed but very self-righteous people took it upon themselves to embark on a typical GS slag-fest over a total non-issue.

You know, there are a few people still around here still who actually know what they're talking about. I don't know if that actually constitutes "having a superiority complex".....

Threads like this are why people at the more serious pro recording sites laugh at this place.
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone ➡️
I suggest you do the same...it would be befuddling if you read the entirety of the thread and still feel there's no culpability whatsoever on Radial's part.

Whatever you state, it doesn't absolve Radial of a blatant, deliberate bait and switch. If you see nothing wrong in this, then I suggest you rescusitate whatever brain cells you squandered in delving into this thread to make yourself a better and more informed consumer...

Btw, at no point did I ever make a qualitative statement about Eclipse transformers, that is not germane to what's being discussed here. The principles apply to any business transaction - it's very simple, you should get what you expect, no more no less, especially if said product is named after what you expect, heavily promoted as such, and possibly hopeful thinking, for there to be some sort of transparency in the matter.

Anyway you cut it, unless you're a friggin' idiot who likes to be taken advantage of, you'd be outraged at Radial's actions, or subsequent lack thereof, all the while tacitly admitting guilt and feigning ignorance...
Hey, dood - you do know that committing libel is a felony, don't you?
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #217
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
There is no reason for this thread beyond the fact that some technically uninformed but very self-righteous people took it upon themselves to embark on a typical GS slag-fest over a total non-issue.

You know, there are a few people still around here still who actually know what they're talking about. I don't know if that actually constitutes "having a superiority complex".....

Threads like this are why people at the more serious pro recording sites laugh at this place.
Actually, I came to this thread in 2013 when I was looking to purchase a Radial JDI duplex. A few months after 'Eclipse' usage started.

It was this thread that gave me the insight to seek out a Jensen equipment mk4. I was buying the 'Jensen' sound, in my JDI, not a transformer I had not experienced prior.

It was thanks to this thread that in 2013 I was able to secure through ebay an older unit that not only had the 'jensen equipped' box but upon opening her up and inspecting today (after seeing the updates the past year and how some users not only back in 2013 but currently with the reintroduction of Jensen transformers were still getting Eclipse trannys) that she does *indeed* have Jensen trannys, and I am happy.

As for the validity of this thread, read the whole thing. One person says the Eclipse sounded fine/the same. Others said it was not. Radial themselves have stated that they had to 'return 500 units' because they were not 'up to spec' from their own testing. So, we can imagine that a few of these slipped through the QC. If you really want to comment on the thread at length, please read the entire thing?!

Regardless, if you buy a box that says 'Jensen equipped' or from a supplier with literature detailing a specific component (that in actuality does not exist in the unit you receive), you have a right to ask what is happening and why.

It's similar to when Proctor & Gamble (a large pharmaceutical company, primarily) bought out the (previously) well-regarded pet food brand/company 'Evo'. Even though they made all efforts to claim supplier sources and ingredients/manufacturing were exactly the same, customers had a different story to tell.

So it is no wonder people get concerned when a company is bought out - especially after going into the market themselves with a similar product.

I for one am grateful for this thread and the insights provided. It's nice that Radial cared to make some comments over the years but I agree with those affected directly (such as the guy who drove to pick his up in Australia after assurances it was a Jensen equipped) that this is not a good business practice. At the very least you need to make sure you are giving statements to your suppliers that will keep consumers informed of changes - especially ones they really do need to know about. The transformer in these passive DIs is arguably the most important component, so it is not illogical to want to know what you are buying. And yes, especially after years of the afore-mentioned company going on about how great Jensen trannys are and how they are their own personal best choice. Why would you want 'second best' when they claim that the Eclipse are 'the same' but 'Jensen are the best'??

I agree also with the change in name. J stands for Jensen. You can't try to say it doesn't, for the couple of years you couldn't get enough Jensens for your JDI duplex range. You needed to change the name slightly - one letter different on the box would not be a huge difference. You already changed the box - 'transformer isolated' instead of 'jensen' - so making it a PDI or EDI is not a huge difference to the changes already made on the mk4-5 boxes.

I did not own any Radial prior to the JDI Duplex but soon after bought an X-Amp reamper. Similarly there are now three different models of the X-Amp (some with differing names) - I am glad I got the second offering, since it seems the newer unit is different again to the first. I don't know the differences between them but change is always a concern when you don't know where you will be at the end of it. Maybe they are the same, maybe they aren't - but regardless, you can't trust the 'reviews' and experience you had with older versions/models of things when changes take place. So again, thank you to the posters in this thread for keeping me up to date and informed. I wouldn't mind some more Radial Eng gear but I'll be keeping a close eye on reports to see if the 'Jensen' brand changes since being acquired by Radial. As mentioned above, it sure seemed that way for the 'Evo' food.
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #218
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
There is no reason for this thread beyond the fact that some technically uninformed but very self-righteous people took it upon themselves to embark on a typical GS slag-fest over a total non-issue.

You know, there are a few people still around here still who actually know what they're talking about. I don't know if that actually constitutes "having a superiority complex".....
OK, then...Johnny boy I challenge you as well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone ➡️
Please make one comment on Radial's blatant bait and switch...just one, come on, I dare ya'...
.
.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
Threads like this are why people at the more serious pro recording sites laugh at this place.
No man, this thread is exactly within the purview of this site...
As far as I can tell, this place is still called GearSlutz, no?

Why can't you see that this is a consumer issue first and foremost, and in this regard Radial without question crossed the line. That should not be a matter of conjecture to anyone who cared to sincerely follow this thread.
Old 17th September 2015
  #219
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🎧 10 years
So after nearly 3 years of verbal debate, has anyone actually compared the SOUND QUALITY of an eclipse vs. jensen JDI?
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #220
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto ➡️
So after nearly 3 years of verbal debate, has anyone actually compared the SOUND QUALITY of an eclipse vs. jensen JDI?
I don't know...I got these instead:
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #221
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
That's pretty ignorant - no transformer DI is "phase accurate" - that runs contrary to the way transformers function. There is always phase shift. In any transformer. What the nature of the shift is, now that's a somewhat different question, but as far as what most of those who are slagging Radial in this thread are concerned, I'd be extremely surprised if they could tell the difference.

The amount of nonsense "science" expounded around here can be quite staggering at times.
We are only talking about what Jensen and Radial CLAIMED in their literature.

I see today that they only claim "virtually zero phase accurate" for the Jensen equipped JDI Duplex.

So I guess if somebody lies about one thing, we should not be surprised if they lie about another.

Let me get this straight ... a company gets swamped with demand for a product because they made outrageous claims about it that were not scientifically possible ... the people were only buying the product because of those claims, and because of the alleged magical healing properties of the "J" magic beans ..

Then the magic "J" beans became as scarce as unicorn poop, so they switch out the "J" magic beans for "E" magic beans ...

Silly people - they will believe anything we tell them, and eat anything we feed them ...

@ JOHN ... if this makes you happy, then be happy.
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #222
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto ➡️
So after nearly 3 years of verbal debate, has anyone actually compared the SOUND QUALITY of an eclipse vs. jensen JDI?
That has never, ever, been the issue with this thread.

If you pay for a real Shure SM57, you expect to get a real Shure SM57.

It does not matter 1% whether the fake chinese SM57 you get is "just as good" as a real Shure SM57.

It's always been about the principle of the matter.

How come people come down so heavy on fake Shure products, but they have no issue with fake Jensen products?
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #223
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi ➡️
That has never, ever, been the issue with this thread.

If you pay for a real Shure SM57, you expect to get a real Shure SM57.

It does not matter 1% whether the fake chinese SM57 you get is "just as good" as a real Shure SM57.

It's always been about the principle of the matter.

How come people come down so heavy on fake Shure products, but they have no issue with fake Jensen products?
From Radial's FAQ:

I understand that the Duplex went from using a Jensen, to an Eclipse ET-DB1, now back to a Jensen. Can you explain if this is true and the difference?

This is true. Due to short supply from Jensen, we had no choice but to have transformers custom made in order to fulfil demand. The Eclipse used were carefully designed to meet our spec. When Radial purchased Jensen, we injected a significant amount of money into the company to that it could increase production. Because Jensen is now delivering, we have shifted back to using the Jensen JT-DBE.


Now, if they at some point still kept the "jensen" name screened on the "eclipse" DIs, that would be an issue. But still, this is an old thread, and obviously from the FAQ not relevant to current production....unless you are saying that the current JT-DBE tfos are not authentic.
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #224
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto ➡️
Now, if they at some point still kept the "jensen" name screened on the "eclipse" DIs, that would be an issue. But still, this is an old thread, and obviously from the FAQ not relevant to current production....unless you are saying that the current JT-DBE tfos are not authentic.
...from 2 weeks ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rowmat ➡️
Two days ago I ordered a Radial JDI Duplex after the store assured me (following a phone call to the Australian distributor, Amber Technology) that the Duplex was fitted with Jensen transformers.

This morning I went to pick it up and guess what?... No Jensens! The store then spent an hour on the phone trying to get some facts from the distributor who didn't seem to know about the transformer change and appeared to be no more informed than the store.

According to the sales guy the distributor said they checked their stock and couldn't locate any Jensen equipped Duplexes in their warehouse. So these are either old stock or Radial hasn't yet begun manufacturing Duplexes with Jensens fitted.

Either way the distributor is using Radial's literature on their website which states the Duplex is fitted with Jensen transformers.

The sales guys in the store had no idea whatsoever Radial had stopped using Jensen transformers and they sell a bunch of Radial DI's.

The distributor better get their facts straight quickly as I wasted most of the day driving 120km's to and from the store in traffic which I wouldn't have done if I had been given the correct information in the first place.

And this...

Radio World: Radial Engineering Acquires Jensen Transformers
Old 17th September 2015 | Show parent
  #225
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone ➡️
...from 2 weeks ago:
I wonder if the Eclipse tfo Duplex that he purchased had "Jensen Equipped" silk screened on it....that would be bad. If they were old stock, and labeled correctly, I don't really see a problem.

This brings back memories of the UA 1176 Clarostat t-pad debacle.

Personally, I don't think it's a big deal, provided the units perform the same, and that they label them as such. But if they were selling "Jensen Equipped" labeled JDIs with Eclipse tfos, that's troubling.
Old 18th September 2015
  #226
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I have been informed by the distributor they have now found some Jensen equipped Duplexes in their warehouse.
My understanding is they had to open the boxes to check the specifications printed in the back of the manual.
I was told if I order a Duplex I need to specify I require a Jensen version and they will send me one.

When I started researching Radial Duplex passive direct boxes several weeks ago I did become aware that Radial had changed to Eclipse transformers a couple of years ago. I also knew that Radial had purchased Jensen last year and had announced they were switching back to Jensen's.

This is why I had the dealer check with the distributor BEFORE I placed my order to make certain they were going to supply a Jensen version.
I don't blame the dealer or the distributor for this.

I used to work in security and one of our major suppliers changed the frequency specifications on a wireless motion detector (burgarly sensor) but failed to tell us.

We sold these with alarm systems to several of our customers (installers) who could not get them to work with the receivers in the alarm panels.

One installer spent five days on a massive job in a three story house out in the country trying to get the things to work before giving up.
We sent him replacement detectors, alarm panel and two receivers all to no avail.

The company who supplied us with the detectors assumed we had the matching receivers in the alarm panels (also never notified) and it wasn't until the only guy in the company who knew about the changes had returned from vacation that we found out why they wouldn't work.

The new detectors were physically the same, had the same part number and came in the same box as the version they replaced.

The frequency specs had changed and were in the manual but were in ultrafine print.

The supplier said they had sent us out a notification by email a few months before but could never show me the email when I asked for it.

The installer's customer cancelled the alarm installation and refused to pay the installer.
The installer then sent the alarm system back to us in unsaleable condition and cancelled his account with us after five years of being a customer.

If the manufacturer had simply changed the model number of the detector then none of this would have occured.
Old 27th October 2016
  #227
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Direct from the man himself...

“Jensen’s, kinda like, as good as it gets, and you have the Eclipse which is a copy of a Jensen, not quite as good, but less expensive.”

Begins at 1:15



Anyway my Jensen equipped Radial Duplex is doing fine along with my Jensen equipped Radial JS3 microphone splitter and that folks is all!
Old 27th October 2016
  #228
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Jensen Versus Eclipse

Hi Slutz;

There are several companies in the US that make good audio transformers. We buy from these folks and badge them under the Eclipse name. Some of these folks use to build for Jensen before Jensen brought production in house. Others built transformers for John Cuniberti for his original Reamp. When we buy these, we carefully specify what we want and they are tested and matched to make sure they perform to our standards. With Jensen, it is a lot easier.

A primary difference between Jensen and the rest is the consistency that Jensen delivers. Jensen employs Swiss-made winders that are much more sophisticated and expensive than the others which assures that when you buy 100 transformers, you get 100 that are exactly the same. No deviation. Jensen also employs the very best 'made in America' wire, the very best laminations and the very best mu-metal cans on the planet. They add extra protective tabs on the wire connections and epoxy-seal each transformer after they have been put in a vacuum. This assures they will not go microphonic and allows Jensen to support them with a 20 year warranty.

The folks at Jensen are absolutely anal about quality and each individual transformer is tested before it goes out the door. It is this level of quality control that sets Jensen apart.

With Jensen - there is no equal.

Peter
Old 27th October 2016 | Show parent
  #229
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🎧 15 years
transformer sales pitch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
There are several companies in the US that make good audio transformers. We buy from these folks and badge them under the Eclipse name. Some of these folks use to build for Jensen before Jensen brought production in house. Others built transformers for John Cuniberti for his original Reamp. When we buy these, we carefully specify what we want and they are tested and matched to make sure they perform to our standards. With Jensen, it is a lot easier.
so the other coil winders are a bunch of Neanderthals using modified fishing tackle to make transformers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
A primary difference between Jensen and the rest is the consistency that Jensen delivers.
how do you know that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
The folks at Jensen are absolutely anal about quality
and Lundahl, Marvel, Heboyer, Crimson, Cinemag, Altran aren't?

the story is about deceptive practices which quite frankly haunts your recently acquired company including who designed what.
since 1989 there has been a concerted effort to dismiss or outright trash the acccomphments of Ed Reichenbach.
Ed, Tom, and Betty Lou are not longer with us to defend themselves.
but I'm not dead yet.
Old 28th October 2016 | Show parent
  #230
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
With Jensen - there is no equal.

Peter
That's why there was dismay when you guys put out a product with its namesake with something different inside...

I don't understand your post. Is this supposed to be some sort of mea culpa or apology?

jesus...just admit you were wrong to put out JDI's that didn't have Jensens in them. Why prolong the obfuscation? Lame man...
Old 28th October 2016
  #231
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Gentlemen;

All of these companies make good transformers. There is no debate - we buy from many. But I can attest to our from experience that Jensen has certainly been the one that has been best. This is why we bought the company - it was out of frutsration. At the recent AES, I met with a manufacurer that pruchased from others and he experienced the same. You just have to spend more time weeding through them. But hey - half the fun in garndeding is weeding - right?

Peter
Old 28th October 2016
  #232
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Re coil winding machines...

You can spend anywhere from $5,000 to $100,000 on a winder. I have visited several factories and seen what other folks use... Jensen employs machines made by Meteor... top end... very precise. We managed to find two new ones and added them to the production line after we purcased the comapny. The devil is in the details!

Go to the Jensen web site for a factory tour. You can see all of the gear being used. Most companies do not show their back rooms. We convinced Jensen that serious players would appreciate a look behind the scene.

Peter
Old 28th October 2016
  #233
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
What I appreciate about Radial is the quality steel boxes that really shield out electromagnetic hum. It must be expensive to build and ship heavy steel products, but that is quality in my book And they have designs that present solutions for working musicians. But then so do Behringer, to be fair.

The reason I've bought Radial is because I want the best - and I believed the hype about jensen being the best. It's a shame that reputation has been tarnished a little.

The lesson here is: never trust brand names. Ever again. We should have learnt this back in the 1990's when marketing genuises realised that a good name was a commodity that can be bought and traded. Quality? Who cares - we can buy from the cheapest factory and slap a brand name on it! Yaay! (Run giggling to the bank. Collect bonus.)

Lesson learnt. If you need a DI box - check out Behringer first. You'll be surprised how good they are. And you can keep the change. Sometimes having minimum phase transformer isn't as musically useful as having a cheaper transformer with character. The Behringer OT-1 transformer is a rather interesting euphonic thing ... check it out.
Old 28th October 2016
  #234
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Having been in the music industry now for 40 years, I have seen all types of products and met all types of engineers and musicians. I appreciate those that are honest and forthright as this is how we treat our customers. We pride ourselves in making the very best products we can and continue to manufacture in Canada, even though we could pay much less to build in China. This is not to say that products made in China cannot be very good... they can, you just have to be very diligent.

The same applies with our friends that manufacture transformers in North America and Europe. We have excellent relationships with many of the ones listed in this thread - along with others. The majority of these companies are honest and ethical. We work with them because they stand behind their products just as we do. Nowhere are we saying that they do not make good products... we are merely saying that Jensen delivers greater consistency - year after year. It is worth noting that we started working with Jensen in 1992. This is almost 25 years ago - and over 25 years, Jensen has consistently delivered exceptional quality. Perfect? No, sometimes deliveries were so slow that our revenues were being affected. This can affect peoples pay cheques... something that one cannot under value. When it got to the point where we had to do something, we contacted these other manufacturers to build transformers for us. This was the only viable solution we could think of at the time. Believe me – we understand better than everyone how changing one transformer to another is critical, so before we did so, we tested, tested and tested and then listened until we felt we had the right transformer to do the job. Specs only tell you part of the story. You have to listen. At the end of the day, they did a very good job and produced a very high quality product that we felt was worthy of the Radial brand. Jensen is but one of the many transformer suppliers we use.

Interesting to note… over the years, only one other company has delivered the same level of consistent quality as Jensen is Mogami cable. In fact, I have dinner planned on Sunday night in Tokyo with Lew Hirabayashi who heads up the company. They are good people that take great pride in what they do.

As for your statement of never trusting a brand name, I am not sure this is the best approach towards buying a product. Good brands are built by good people that stand behind their products. I was fortunate to work for the Fender organization for a period of 10 years. Although one can argue that their guitars are not as good as a hand made no-name, never once was cutting corners to reduce quality ever discussed. It was always about delivering the best value for the dollar. I love my Strat and am still learning to play my Tele!

I was recently back stage at a David Crosby show – chatting with David’s guitar tech. They have a bunch of Radial DIs racked up for David’s guitars. When I asked about ‘why’ they use Radial, he said sound is important, but no sound is really important! No sound, means I am out of a job. All this brings us back to quality. Use quality parts and put them inside a quality enclosure and the product will not let you down at the most critical times. No, not perfect – nothing is, but certainly more dependable.

Hopefully this rings a bell for all of you that may have doubts with respect to Radial and all of the great products that abound in our industry.

Peter
Old 28th October 2016
  #235
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1 Review written
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Thanks Peter - yes, that is the world we live in. Lowest price rules - hence America has sold itself out to make China rich. This exactly confirms my statement that brand names are now meaningless. Whether stuff is built in China or not is not that important from the point of view of quality - we all know they can make quality, or [email protected], as required.

But if we want chinese products - why not cut out the middle man?

As for Fender - they have been trading on their name for decades now. Compared to the asian makers like Yamaha, Ibanez etc, the quality just isn't there - dollar for dollar. But people will pay for the name. It's like Coca Cola - if you want the real flavour of cola beans you have to buy a competitor organic product, because the 'real thing' is a tasteless shadow of it's original concept (not that it wil ever contain cocaine again ... original secret recipe - bollocks).

But I respect Radial products for the quality I can see and hear, regardless of who makes it now. So if chinese makers are reading this ... steel cases please! They shield hum better.
Old 28th October 2016
  #236
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old ghost's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Reading through this thread has just made me want one... Eclipse or Jensen aside, sounds like a cool unit.
Old 28th October 2016
  #237
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FWIW, I'm at an event today where there is a cache of new Fender instruments laying around for perusal. Far and away the best player is the American Elite Stratocaster. The Custom Shops look nice, but the necks don't feel nearly as balanced to me. They're $2K more.
Old 28th October 2016 | Show parent
  #238
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilla_studios ➡️
FWIW, I'm at an event today where there is a cache of new Fender instruments laying around for perusal. Far and away the best player is the American Elite Stratocaster. The Custom Shops look nice, but the necks don't feel nearly as balanced to me. They're $2K more.
Not saying Fender can't make nice guitars. But about a dozen other makers can make better guitar for half the price.
Old 28th October 2016 | Show parent
  #239
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi ➡️
Not saying Fender can't make nice guitars. But about a dozen other makers can make better guitar for half the price.
I know. And one can get a 2nd hand, US made G&L that feels as good as the strat I liked for less than half.

But aesthetic is forever tied to music and most of the people I play with and/or get hired to record would not be caught dead playing a Yammy electric guitar at a gig.

Beater old Harmony or Silvertone? Sure.

It is what it is. The instrument, in addition to technical excellence, should bring you joy.
Old 28th October 2016
  #240
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The new Yamaha Revstar range is fantastic ... I would rather be seen with one of those than a Fender ....
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