Quantcast
Radial stops using Jensen transformer in JDI duplex? - Page 5 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Radial stops using Jensen transformer in JDI duplex?
Old 11th March 2015 | Show parent
  #121
Gear Maniac
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I don't get this whole thread. Yes, radial changed the trannys. And they were open about it. I read it on their facebook I think! So I can't see that there is any bait and switch . . .

And also the DI's sound excellent. Both sorts. And if you DESPERATELY NEED a Jensen DI, they still make the JDI single, and other companies make Jensen DI's.

Personally, I very much like my 'Eclipse' DI's and am very satisfied.
Old 11th March 2015 | Show parent
  #122
Gear Addict
 
NuSkoolTone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrunskill ➡️
I don't get this whole thread. Yes, radial changed the trannys. And they were open about it. I read it on their facebook I think! So I can't see that there is any bait and switch . . .

And also the DI's sound excellent. Both sorts. And if you DESPERATELY NEED a Jensen DI, they still make the JDI single, and other companies make Jensen DI's.

Personally, I very much like my 'Eclipse' DI's and am very satisfied.

As I'm sure has been mentioned several times in the thread, the product is called JDI Duplex, which literally means : JENSEN DI Duplex. So there is an assumption it's Jensen equipped as has been ADVERTISED as such since the product's inception until recently. If they changed the silkscreen on the box to "EDI duplex" the whole issue would go away.

It's really that simple!
Old 11th March 2015 | Show parent
  #123
Gear Addict
 
Tousana's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Since Radial not to long ago purchased Jensen, they should have no problem sourcing transformers now. I would think that since they now own the company they will go back to putting Jensens in the JDI duplex. The reason they switched was for supply reasons and not being able to get the needed transformers in a timely fashion, and I think a resilkscreening process would be prohibitively expensive, perhaps what they should do is offer an exchange for those who feel they where cheated in some way, even though the company was open about the switch. This would certainly end the the episode on a high note. I have always been happy with my Radial purchases, a great company with some great ideas and problem solving products.
Old 11th August 2015
  #124
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Radial has since bought Jensen and purchased additional equipment to allow them to increase production. Production will remain in Southern California and all the staff of Jensen have been retained.
Old 25th August 2015 | Show parent
  #125
|-|
Lives for gear
 
|-|'s Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMFraser ➡️
Radial has since bought Jensen and purchased additional equipment to allow them to increase production. Production will remain in Southern California and all the staff of Jensen have been retained.
I'm in need of two JDI Duplex DI's. Now that you guys have bought Jensen, ramped up production, is the Duplex back to using Jensen's?
Old 25th August 2015 | Show parent
  #126
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by |-| ➡️
I'm in need of two JDI Duplex DI's. Now that you guys have bought Jensen, ramped up production, is the Duplex back to using Jensen's?
I'm curious on this as well if they went back to jensen now they own the supply chain. Looks like they have based on what is on their site. Or hopefully not just stamping Jensen on the surplus Eclipse.

They have updated their marketing info on the site and pics and text both say Jensen again
JDI Duplex™ - Stereo Direct Box

but on music store sites I've seen the pics still say Eclipse, but the description shows Jensen
Radial JDI Duplex | Sweetwater.com
Old 26th August 2015 | Show parent
  #127
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrilo ➡️
... Or hopefully not just stamping Jensen on the surplus Eclipse. ...

They have updated their marketing info on the site and pics and text both say Jensen again
JDI Duplex™ - Stereo Direct Box

but on music store sites I've seen the pics still say Eclipse, but the description shows Jensen
Radial JDI Duplex | Sweetwater.com
That's the power of owning a brandname ... you can legally apply it to anything you want because you have that right.

I don't believe in brand names anymore. They used to mean something, but now typically American makers who had a reputation for quality goods simply outsource to China, where labour is cheap and no money is wasted on health or safety of workers. The brand name remains the same, and gullible punters have attached a worth in their minds and continue to buy.

But after you have been caught a few times, you realise that brand names are now worthless in this millenium. So .. you might as well buy Chinese no-name goods, because they have copied them faithfully and often are just as good if not better.

I learned this lesson with Nike. I had a pair of Nike Air shoes in the 1980's that lasted many, many years. They were excellent. So when they eventually wore out, some times in the 1990's - I bought some Nike Airs. But they were rubbish and quickly fell apart.

A few years ago, I found some shoes that were being sold really cheap - with an undecipherable chinese name. But they looked, as far as I can recall, identical to the original, good Nike Airs. They were fantastic shoes, and never again will I buy Nike.

Radial are going to have a big problem with credibility over this Jensen issue. I just hope they have a policy of total honesty ... but judging by how they handled this debacle, I doubt we will hear from them. They probably didn't think audio engineers would notice.

I don't envy their marketing department ...

It would have all been much simpler if they had merely changed the product name to remove the "J" from the non-Jensen DI. But probably that bait and switch was made at a very high level, and the middle management marketing department can't really defend the indefendable, so best they say nothing .. or we would have heard from them by now.

So like anything now ... let the buyer beware, and do your homework. If you can find better stuff cheaper, regardless of country of manufacture, then vote with your dollars.
Old 2nd September 2015
  #128
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Two days ago I ordered a Radial JDI Duplex after the store assured me (following a phone call to the Australian distributor, Amber Technology) that the Duplex was fitted with Jensen transformers.

This morning I went to pick it up and guess what?... No Jensens! The store then spent an hour on the phone trying to get some facts from the distributor who didn't seem to know about the transformer change and appeared to be no more informed than the store.

According to the sales guy the distributor said they checked their stock and couldn't locate any Jensen equipped Duplexes in their warehouse. So these are either old stock or Radial hasn't yet begun manufacturing Duplexes with Jensens fitted.

Either way the distributor is using Radial's literature on their website which states the Duplex is fitted with Jensen transformers.

The sales guys in the store had no idea whatsoever Radial had stopped using Jensen transformers and they sell a bunch of Radial DI's.

The distributor better get their facts straight quickly as I wasted most of the day driving 120km's to and from the store in traffic which I wouldn't have done if I had been given the correct information in the first place.

And this...

http://www.radioworld.com/article/ra...formers/271192

Quote:
"... As an illustration of the two companies’ long relationship, it should be noted that the “J” in Radial’s well-known JDI direct box, stands for “Jensen” (and the Jensen transformers used in its build)...."
Old 2nd September 2015
  #129
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Looks like they've been caught in a fraud ... any lawyers out there want to take them on?
Old 2nd September 2015 | Show parent
  #130
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi ➡️
That's the power of owning a brandname ... you can legally apply it to anything you want because you have that right.

I don't believe in brand names anymore. They used to mean something, but now typically American makers who had a reputation for quality goods simply outsource to China, where labour is cheap and no money is wasted on health or safety of workers. The brand name remains the same, and gullible punters have attached a worth in their minds and continue to buy.

But after you have been caught a few times, you realise that brand names are now worthless in this millenium. So .. you might as well buy Chinese no-name goods, because they have copied them faithfully and often are just as good if not better.

I learned this lesson with Nike. I had a pair of Nike Air shoes in the 1980's that lasted many, many years. They were excellent. So when they eventually wore out, some times in the 1990's - I bought some Nike Airs. But they were rubbish and quickly fell apart.

A few years ago, I found some shoes that were being sold really cheap - with an undecipherable chinese name. But they looked, as far as I can recall, identical to the original, good Nike Airs. They were fantastic shoes, and never again will I buy Nike.

Radial are going to have a big problem with credibility over this Jensen issue. I just hope they have a policy of total honesty ... but judging by how they handled this debacle, I doubt we will hear from them. They probably didn't think audio engineers would notice.

I don't envy their marketing department ...

It would have all been much simpler if they had merely changed the product name to remove the "J" from the non-Jensen DI. But probably that bait and switch was made at a very high level, and the middle management marketing department can't really defend the indefendable, so best they say nothing .. or we would have heard from them by now.

So like anything now ... let the buyer beware, and do your homework. If you can find better stuff cheaper, regardless of country of manufacture, then vote with your dollars.

First world problems are a bitch!
Old 2nd September 2015 | Show parent
  #131
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus ➡️
First world problems are a bitch!
Yeah - but I would not worry about. Very, very soon America is going to be 3rd world, and China is now 1st world.

You'll be much better off when you don't have any of those nasty 1st world problems ...

Regardless of poverty status - I just don't like be deceived. Sort of annoys me for some reason ..

Radial could have resolved this a long, long time ago with a little honesty and humble pie ... they could have simply apologised, saying something like ... "sorry, in retrospect we screwed up and it would have been better to rename the product to avoid any confusion".

That's the power of brand loyalty ... you build a reputation on a good product and a good name ... but when you screw with that good name by replacing it with an inferior product - that is called "bait and switch" in my country, and it is illegal.

Here is an example: a good friend of ours does not have much money to live on, but she decided she really wanted some nice carpet - and even though the square area was tiny, this was a big investment for her. The saleman showed her some samples, and she chose a gorgeous quality chocolate brown carpet that was perfect.

Now when the carpet was installed - she was gutted. The carpet they put in was cheap synthetic ****, roughly the same color until you brushed it the wrong way. It looked and felt a bit cheap and nasty, and although approximately the same - it was NOT the same. This is a big deal when you have borrowed money for something nice, and this was not nice.

Then - with a little research - we found this company was doing this to everyone. Bait and switch - pure deception. So luckiy she had not paid, and we were able to apply legal pressure because this IS ilegal in our country.

The company then gave her an option. She could have the carpet removed and the good stuff replaced. That was going to cost them a lot of money. She would still have to pay for the original quote. OR - they decided she could, if she wanted, keep the carpet and they would call it a day. Now because this was a lot of money (for her) she had borrowed, and because the carpet was not THAT bad, she opted to keep the free carpet. It was ok - not perfect, but still acceptable carpet, and free is free. A win for her, and an expensive education in honesty to the @$$#@!$ who tried to fool her.

Tell me that what Radial are doing is not slightly similar ...
Old 2nd September 2015
  #132
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I think it is more of a case of both the distributor and the store not having much idea about the transformer changes.

The fact that Radial didn't change the name of the Duplex to clarify that it was no longer fitted with Jensen's is the issue.

Although Radial can argue the Eclipse is in the same league as the Jensen, if it wasn't such a big deal, then why did they purchase Jensen (the company) and are advertising that the Duplex is now fitted with Jensens once again?

We know lack of supply from Jensen was the original issue but I think Radial should have definately been more transparent and changed the name of the Duplex to be clear it was no longer fitted with Jensens.
Old 2nd September 2015 | Show parent
  #133
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Radial and Jensen

Hi Gearslutz;

Just a quick chime-in to clarify several bits and pieces.

1. Radial & Jensen
Radial purchased Jensen in order to provide greater financial stability to the company. This in turn allowed Jensen to order more raw parts to meet our needs along with the needs of others. I am pleased to say that we now get stock much more rapidly and are able to use more Jensen Transformers in our products and are doing so.

2. Duplex and JD6
Before the acquisition, due to product shortages, we went to several US companies to have transformers made. Some of these were the very same companies that use to produce Jensen before Jensen brought production in house. Keep in mind that the JT-DBE Transformer originated around 1974. Although these companies did an OK job, we found ourselves having to do inordinate amounts of testing to ensure they met the spec. This was the same complaint Jensen had and why they decided to stop using some of these vendors. The good news is that even though we sent back over 500 units, the vast majority worked well. These are the ones that are sold under the Eclipse brand and are equivalent to the original Jensen's from the 1980s.

3. Production in Chatsworth
Jensen transformers are proudly made in Chatsworth California by highly trained individuals, many of which have been with Jensen for years. As a manufacturer that buys parts from hundreds of sources, I can assure you that Jensen not only continues to produce the very highest quality, but the consistency is absolutely spectacular. Anyone that doubts this should start buy checking out the Jensen Factory Tour on line or arranging a visit. We have no plans to move Jensen to China or anywhere else.

Peter Janis
President
Old 2nd September 2015 | Show parent
  #134
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
Radial purchased Jensen in order to provide greater financial stability to the company. This in turn allowed Jensen to order more raw parts to meet our needs along with the needs of others. I am pleased to say that we now get stock much more rapidly and are able to use more Jensen Transformers in our products and are doing so.
"greater financial stability" ?
would you care to elaborate, Peter ? there are rumors floating about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
2. Duplex and JD6
Before the acquisition, due to product shortages, we went to several US companies to have transformers made. Some of these were the very same companies that use to produce Jensen before Jensen brought production in house. Keep in mind that the JT-DBE Transformer originated around 1974. Although these companies did an OK job, we found ourselves having to do inordinate amounts of testing to ensure they met the spec. This was the same complaint Jensen had and why they decided to stop using some of these vendors. The good news is that even though we sent back over 500 units, the vast majority worked well. These are the ones that are sold under the Eclipse brand and are equivalent to the original Jensen's from the 1980s.
Wow, here I thought the original Jensen products was designed and manufactured by Betty and Ed.
And, Mr. Hogan claims to have redesigned the entire product line.
Would you care to clarify ?
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #135
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Radial and Jensen

Simply put...

Jensen is and always will be an engineering firm that builds ultra high quality transformers using the very finest precision equipment.

However... when Radial got involved, production level manufacturing was new to Jensen. This not only required more investment on equipment, it also meant increasing inventory levels, computer systems and adding financial controls. Anyone that knows anything about running a business knows well that resources cost money. As soon as we arrived on the scene, we purchased two new Meteor Swiss Winders, the best made in the world. Just these required an investment of nearly $100,000. We then hired a qualified accountant. ($)

As for the actual designs, we found hand-written originals by Deane Jensen that go back to the 1970s. Dean (as with Bill Whitlock) are 'real' electrical engineers that have spent their careers in studios, building studio gear. These guys brought the science to the original design of transformers along with the updates that have resulted in vast improvements in the technology that Jensen employs today. There are thousands of companies that can wind a transformer... very few understand the peculiarities with audio.

Further, after 40 years, the guys at Jensen such as Dave Hill know the frailties and problems as they are front line to dealing with customers. When Jensen brought the production in house, they invested heavily on higher quality numerical winders, sourced higher consistency components (made in the US or Europe) and addressed niggly little bits and pieces that allowed them to offer a 20 year warranty.

Most importantly, they stabilized the staff. Jensen will go through 20 people for every 1 that is kept. Building transformers is extremely difficult work that requires steady hands and painstaking precision. A major criteria in selecting someone is to find a person that has done a lot of sewing or petit-point. These 'ladies' are naturally trained to work with very fine threads and have tremendous dexterity. You just have to watch them at work to understand the what is involved. It is truly an art.

Jensen is heads and tails above the rest. Sometimes, (for me) it is like watching paint dry. But it is what it is. And you get what you pay for.

PJ
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #136
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
Hi Gearslutz;
...I am pleased to say that we now get stock much more rapidly and are able to use more Jensen Transformers in our products and are doing so...
Hello Peter,

(1) Is Radial currently producing the Duplex with Jensens transformers?

(2) If so, how can I be sure to get a Jensen equipped Duplex if I order one?

Amber Technology, the Australian Radial distributor, do not appear to have any Jensen Duplexes in stock even though they thought they did when I first had the dealer check with them prior to placing my order for a Duplex.

They sent down an Eclipse Duplex.

Amber are currently advertising Duplexes fitted with Jensens on their website but this does not seem to be the case, at least for their current stock.

http://www.ambertech.com.au/solution...plex-stereo-di

Thanks
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #137
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Radial stands 100% behind the Eclipse transformers that are in the Duplex. We have sent these to the top studios in the world and they were used at the Broadcast center for the last Olympics. So not to worry. They meet our criteria.

If you want to wait for more Jensen equipped Duplexes to hit the Australian market, I am sure the folks at Amber will oblige.
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #138
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
Hi Gearslutz;

Just a quick chime-in to clarify several bits and pieces.

1. Radial & Jensen
Radial purchased Jensen in order to provide greater financial stability to the company. This in turn allowed Jensen to order more raw parts to meet our needs along with the needs of others. I am pleased to say that we now get stock much more rapidly and are able to use more Jensen Transformers in our products and are doing so.

2. Duplex and JD6
Before the acquisition, due to product shortages, we went to several US companies to have transformers made. Some of these were the very same companies that use to produce Jensen before Jensen brought production in house. Keep in mind that the JT-DBE Transformer originated around 1974. Although these companies did an OK job, we found ourselves having to do inordinate amounts of testing to ensure they met the spec. This was the same complaint Jensen had and why they decided to stop using some of these vendors. The good news is that even though we sent back over 500 units, the vast majority worked well. These are the ones that are sold under the Eclipse brand and are equivalent to the original Jensen's from the 1980s.

3. Production in Chatsworth
Jensen transformers are proudly made in Chatsworth California by highly trained individuals, many of which have been with Jensen for years. As a manufacturer that buys parts from hundreds of sources, I can assure you that Jensen not only continues to produce the very highest quality, but the consistency is absolutely spectacular. Anyone that doubts this should start buy checking out the Jensen Factory Tour on line or arranging a visit. We have no plans to move Jensen to China or anywhere else.

Peter Janis
President
This is not exactly the best time and place for a cheesy marketing speil.

How about something more human - like an "oops - so sorry we got that wrong".

You are not addressing our concerns - that the "J" in your product name strongly implied it was "Jensen" equipped, and that even now there is confusion amongst your distributers as to the truth. Bait and switch is not cool.

It would seem that now that you own the Jensen brand name, you can legally slap it on any old transformer you care to build.

You say that your consistency is "absolutely spectacular" ... but we only have your word for this. That's about as good as your word that JDI was Jensen equipped when it wasn't.

Can I suggest you invest in a better media relations company that understands the term "damage control" ...

Last edited by Kiwi; 3rd September 2015 at 01:20 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 3rd September 2015
  #139
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Wouch!! So the JD6 also was NOT Jensen equiped ... gob smacked!!

OK - who, apart from Radial, makes good DI boxes now?
Old 3rd September 2015
  #140
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I am ashamed of the many, many times I have praised Radial products in this forum. I wish I could get them all delete now. Especially since I usually mentioned that they were Jensen equipment - perpertrating the lie. I feel ripped off.

My deepest apologies to the forum - and I will no longer be recommending Radial on principle.
Old 3rd September 2015
  #141
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Radial...WTF!?!

Unless you guys want to branded as scumbags of the highest order, you have an ethical duty to any customer who from the point that you guys bought out Jensen, who've bought the JDI Duplex expecting Jensens and to find that they aren't there - to replace them for the sh*t they were expecting, no questions asked.

Offering anything less at this point would not only be a huge disappointment, but criminally lame...major league lame. Shame on you Radial for being lame...f*cking pathetic if you ask me...
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #142
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
Radial stands 100% behind the Eclipse transformers that are in the Duplex. We have sent these to the top studios in the world and they were used at the Broadcast center for the last Olympics. So not to worry. They meet our criteria.

If you want to wait for more Jensen equipped Duplexes to hit the Australian market, I am sure the folks at Amber will oblige.
Peter, this is not exactly addressing my questions.

Is Radial currently (as we speak) producing Duplexes fitted with Jensen transformers and, if so, for how long have Jensen Duplexes been back in production?

When you say "more Jensen equipped Duplexes to hit the Australian market" that implies that you have already shipped Jensen equipped Duplexes to Australia. I would assume that means to Amber? Yesterday someone at Amber checked their stock of Duplexes and were unable to confirm any were Jensen equipped. The Duplex they sent down to Melbourne stated in the manual it was fitted with an Eclipse.

As for you standing by the Eclipse transformers, that is all well and good but when someone orders a BMW, and is told they're going to receive a BMW but winds up receiving a BMW badged Mazda instead (for the same price) one can argue all they like "Hey, Mazdas are great cars" but I'm afraid that is not going to cut it.

Radial should have at least changed the model name of the Duplex to EDI or something to delineate it as being different to the Jensen version.

If your distributors and dealers aren't sure of the changes, and are continuing to provide incorrect information almost two years after the change, then it appears Radial obviously hasn't done enough to correct the confusion.

Radial has not been backwards using the 'Jensen' name for many years to promote its products.
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #143
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
As a company, Radial builds the very best product that it can and will always do our very best to stay the course. When parts are no longer available, we adapt. The JDI, Duplex and JD6 are now all outfitted with Jensen Transformers as we too believe these are the very best. But unlike internet ink, we cannot merely type stuff to make things happen.

As for transitioning back and forth, we did announce the changes on our web site and unfortunately, hardware product is not always sold through following the same time line as the changes we make. But one thing for sure, we stand behind our products 100%.

And as for the sound quality.. we listen to transformers... we do not merely test them. In fact we spend hours doing so. We are committed to quality and this is why we invested in Jensen.

End of story.

PJ
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #144
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
As a company, Radial builds the very best product that it can and will always do our very best to stay the course. When parts are no longer available, we adapt. The JDI, Duplex and JD6 are now all outfitted with Jensen Transformers as we too believe these are the very best. But unlike internet ink, we cannot merely type stuff to make things happen.

As for transitioning back and forth, we did announce the changes on our web site and unfortunately, hardware product is not always sold through following the same time line as the changes we make. But one thing for sure, we stand behind our products 100%.

And as for the sound quality.. we listen to transformers... we do not merely test them. In fact we spend hours doing so. We are committed to quality and this is why we invested in Jensen.

End of story.

PJ
Isn't it reasonable for anyone who've bought JDI Duplexes expecting that they would contain Jensen transformers, specifically after it was announced that Radial bought out Jensen, that they would indeed contain Jensen transformers - of which it was named after?

Considering you guys have not been transparent about JDI Duplexes not containing Jensen transformers was egregious enough - finally admitting after the fact...but to not account for whatever stock you have left in circulation, knowing full well if it indeed does have Eclipse instead of Jensens - which is clearly in violation of good faith that people would assume JDI's would indeed contain its namesake transformers...well, it don't look very good on you guy's part at all...

Man up, and rectify your mistakes.

Jesus...all it would take is - anyone who expected Jensens, and didn't get them, well now since you own them, it's just right you should replace them, to make sure they were getting what they were expecting...

Really, anything less, I'd never ever buy your products on principle alone, regardless of how great you think your products are - respect, fair play and honesty still should mean something, and any company that crosses that line...you deserve no support.

You come off as dishonest cheapskates - you might save a little here with the deception that you've pulled off so far, but you lose far more in terms of credibility and reputation...
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #145
Lives for gear
 
Trakworx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister ➡️
Radial stands 100% behind the Eclipse transformers that are in the Duplex.
I'd bet my Jensen-equipped Duplex that nobody here, in a blind test, could hear the difference between a Jensen equipped Duplex and an Eclipse equipped Duplex. Sonically, I believe this is much ado about nothing.

Having said that, as a matter of public relations and human psychology I believe it is a big mistake Radial is making by allowing this situation to perpetuate. If people FEEL misled, no matter if the product sounds just as good, then no amount of explaining will ever fix that. It's human nature. By all means stand behind Eclipse quality, but if a customer wants to exchange an Eclipse unit for a Jensen unit then Radial should do it free of charge. The damage to Radial's brand is far worse than the cost of swapping the units. It's just good business practice. Wise up radial. Do the right thing.
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #146
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
What a bunch of crying babies here. Buy other Radial products equipped with Jensen or other company's products made with Jensen transformers. There are lots of them.
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #147
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
How about just putting a sticker on the box stating whether that particular unit has an Eclipse or Jensen transformer in it? This still allows you to use whatever your production runs have available at any given time and still is very clear to the buyer.

The standard corporate policy of asking for forgiveness after a company is caught substituting a key element of a product instead of simple disclosure on packaging is why you have lost so much consumer support, regardless if this action was per legal advice to not subject you to liability. The fact is that one has to still pop the top off your product to determine which transformer is used. Because you have failed to take simple, effective, and inexpensive steps (a simple sticker) for full disclosure to the consumer at the point of sale and instead appeared to be counting on this issue just blowing over now questions consumer confidence on the Jensen name brand itself as you now own them. Your postings imply that Jensen will maintain it's pre-buyout quality levels but given the transpired events, please remember that people will be watching to see if Jensen's quality changes. Remember it takes years to earn back trust, it would be unfortunate if a market develops for "Vintage" JDI's and JD6's selling for more than the new Radial offerings.
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #148
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
A similar situation exists with the Radial Twin Iso. Every vendor on the net advertises them as having Jensen transformers. The photos of the product show lettering saying so, as does the text. But what B&H shipped us last month, with the identical stock number, was a Twin Iso with Eclipse transformers. The packaging states Eclipse and there are no graphics or wording on the packaging mentioning Jensen transformers. There is no indication that Radial even makes the Twin Iso with Jensens any more. Their website only mentions one Twin Iso now, and nothing about Jensens.

Frankly, I would expect to pay less for the Eclipse version. I'm considering sending it back.
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #149
Lives for gear
 
Trakworx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
What a bunch of crying babies here.
Yes, crying like babies is normal human behavior, which is precisely what Radial should recognize and deal with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Buy other Radial products equipped with Jensen or other company's products made with Jensen transformers. There are lots of them.
To be fair, the Radial product in question does represent itself as having Jensens inside, hence the "J" in "JDI". Vendors are advertising it as containing Jensens but some units don't have Jensens. That is why people are crying out - a normal emotional response to the feeling of having been deceived. Radial is failing to see the big picture - their reputation and now by extension even Jensen's reputation are at stake, no matter how babyish people may or may not be, that's the situation. Trust is the most important thing in business. Radial is blowing it. This has gone on far too long.
Old 3rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #150
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
What a bunch of crying babies here. Buy other Radial products equipped with Jensen or other company's products made with Jensen transformers. There are lots of them.
I don't think you get ... the other DI makers who used to buy Jensen have to deal with Radial now, because Radial have bought out Jensen.

As you can see - direct from the horses mouth - Radial does not apologise for bait and switch practices, and don't give a crap about customer relations or ethics.

So we can buy from another maker who advertises that their DI box is "Jensen equipped" - and it might be a Radial transformer made with cheaper materials. This is perfectly legal - and all Radial have said is that (for now) they have kept the same staff. But this will be for economic reasons, and given their track record and appalling customer facing behaviour displayed in this thread - why should we trust them at all???

The product might "work" and Radial might "stand by them" (whatever that means - probably that they wizz past their office water cooler on a conveyor belt).

Behringer DI boxes pass signal - they work too. And Behringer offer a 3 year warranty. The coloration is very obvious though - frankly, it works for some sounds, and the real Jensens can be rather boring.

But the whole point of real Jensen transformers is that they used to be phase accurate - the only ones that were. Radial have never claimed that their own transformers are phase accurate. They are not the same (otherwise they would not have bought the company - they could have simply proven with measurement tests that their own tranformers were superior. But they can't.

So what did they do? They swapped them out - and people who had believed their old marketing about J standing for Jensen got something different to what they paid for. In my country, that is illegal. I don't know USA laws that well - maybe that's alright in your country.

But now that they legally own the Jensen name - they could buy the cheapest transformers on the planet (maybe from Behringer) and slap a Jensen sticker on it, and that would be perfectly legal.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 104 views: 28926
Avatar for Zoot
Zoot 12th September 2019
replies: 40 views: 3728
Avatar for CJ1973
CJ1973 28th December 2007
replies: 8 views: 3846
Avatar for Apemandan
Apemandan 18th March 2008
replies: 2 views: 2961
Avatar for Janesaid2me
Janesaid2me 14th June 2013
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump