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How to use the mod wheel for velocity?
Old 21st January 2013
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
How to use the mod wheel for velocity?

If I use ensemble brass instruments, when I hit the note slowly, it has soft sound, but when I hit it fast it has not only louder but a harder, thicker sound.

How do I use the mod/pitch wheel to adjust it during play? Like, I hit the note slowly for a soft sound and then roll the wheel to gradually thicken the sound

(same with strings by the way, from soft string sound to thicker metallic sound)

I have Oxygen 88:

Old 21st January 2013
  #2
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Hello? please this is urgent
Old 21st January 2013
  #3
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
please come on!
Old 21st January 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Grummy77's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Buy sample libraries that support it, or learn to record and program your own. Basic sample libraries aren't capable of the level of expressive control you seek. They are simply playing an audio file as recorded based on how fast you press the key. Press middle C fast it plays the recording of the loud middle C as played by a musician in a studio somewhere. Play that same note slowly it's programmed to play a recording of a musician playing it softly. Based in the software you are using for the library you might be able to set up a crossfade controlled by the modwheel but it will sound like a crossfade of twice the amount of instruments playing the same note only one hard and on soft. It won't sound like musicians doing a crescendo or de-crescendo. Some software like Kontakt is capable of doing more clever and realistic morphing (rather than simple cross fading) but the programing takes more skill/time I believe.

For cinematic strings I use this: http://audiobro.com/

For cinematic brass I use this (also use their woodwind library) : http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/

There are other options and more and more available, mot will cost according to the large amount of work and time that gets put into them, so most are not cheap. Usually the really good ones are quite costly.

Native Instruments came out with a more pop based horn library that is quite affordable that I think will do this but I have not tried it yet myself. http://www.native-instruments.com/en...horns/?type=99

I do have the sax and trumpet libraries from Sample Modeling and they are great. Incredibly realistic and expressive solo horns. http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/index.php

You also might want to check out some of this stuff: http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/

But most basic libraries are not capable of doing what you ask.

Best of luck.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grummy77 ➑️
Buy sample libraries that support it, or learn to record and program your own. Basic sample libraries aren't capable of the level of expressive control you seek. They are simply playing an audio file as recorded based on how fast you press the key. Press middle C fast it plays the recording of the loud middle C as played by a musician in a studio somewhere. Play that same note slowly it's programmed to play a recording of a musician playing it softly. Based in the software you are using for the library you might be able to set up a crossfade controlled by the modwheel but it will sound like a crossfade of twice the amount of instruments playing the same note only one hard and on soft. It won't sound like musicians doing a crescendo or de-crescendo. Some software like Kontakt is capable of doing more clever and realistic morphing (rather than simple cross fading) but the programing takes more skill/time I believe.

For cinematic strings I use this: Audiobro - home of LA Scoring Strings

For cinematic brass I use this (also use their woodwind library) : CineBrass | Cinesamples

There are other options and more and more available, mot will cost according to the large amount of work and time that gets put into them, so most are not cheap. Usually the really good ones are quite costly.

Native Instruments came out with a more pop based horn library that is quite affordable that I think will do this but I have not tried it yet myself. SESSION HORNS

I do have the sax and trumpet libraries from Sample Modeling and they are great. Incredibly realistic and expressive solo horns. Sample Modeling - Home page

You also might want to check out some of this stuff: Wallander Instruments - Modelled Virtual Instruments in VST, AU & RTAS Format

But most basic libraries are not capable of doing what you ask.

Best of luck.
Hi thanks for the detailed explanation! And sorry for the newbie questions

I only use Kontakt premium libraries I'm not using any freeware or stuff like that. I have EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Gold, Hollywood Strings Diamond, The Grand 3.

Regarding the mod wheels, I don't get it- what are they for if not for that kind of stuff?

EDIT:
OMG FINALLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVCU4oX3li4
I was after this video the whole day and finally found it.
I saw it yesterday and the guy was playing with the modwheels. what is he using the modwheel for? is it for the velocity?

Found another video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erz6Sh8uaho#t=2m19s
How on earth is he doing that (2:19-2:21)
Old 21st January 2013
  #6
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
any ideas?
Old 21st January 2013
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
OMG why do I have to wait a whole day for an answer?
Old 21st January 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLer ➑️
OMG why do I have to wait a whole day for an answer?
Because this is a forum, not a support staff waiting at your beck and call 24/7. We have lives, jobs, and other things to do. In all reality, you're asking a specialized question that few on this forum would know much about. Those who do know will comment when they see it. They will probably be more likely to do so if you are a bit more patient and polite. Thanks.
Old 21st January 2013
  #9
Gear Head
 
Lpmike75's Avatar
If you have SO Gold, you will see some patches labeled MOD ...
These patches have a crossfade of velocity layers in them that you control with your Mod wheel.
Old 21st January 2013
  #10
Gear Head
 
Lpmike75's Avatar
Just to add, If some of the samples dont have MOD wheel patches, you can create two different velocity notes and manually crossfade between them with your volume or expression CC. The MOD wheel patches are much easier though
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpmike75 ➑️
If you have SO Gold, you will see some patches labeled MOD ...
These patches have a crossfade of velocity layers in them that you control with your Mod wheel.
I hardly believe this is a feature only available in SO
You can't compose orchestral music without this feature, I know for sure
It should be available for any vst and not as a patch
I am using Cubase 5
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpmike75 ➑️
Just to add, If some of the samples dont have MOD wheel patches, you can create two different velocity notes and manually crossfade between them with your volume or expression CC. The MOD wheel patches are much easier though

this is from kontakt factory library

wheres the mod wheel patch here how do I use it how does it look like? sorry for the noob questions but I'm a noob!
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLer ➑️

this is from kontakt factory library

wheres the mod wheel patch here how do I use it how does it look like? sorry for the noob questions but I'm a noob!
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
??
Old 21st January 2013
  #15
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
bump
Old 21st January 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Grummy77's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The stock Kontakt string patches don't offer that feature to my knowledge. Some of the stock Kontakt Choir patches offer some 'morphing' but not for velocity or dynamics.

If you really need the ability to morph from samples with loud dynamics to soft (or vice versa) then I believe you'll need to invest in more substantial libraries. Check out some of the links I put above. Those library's are capable of what you ask and do a good job of it.

One option is to use an expression pedal. Many basic horn and string patches are ready to go using an expression pedal to adjust volume. But you are not morphing the samples in most cases. The Kontakt Factory string and horn patches the expression pedal will usually adjust the volume. You can get away with much that way but it's not the most realistic sound. You can assign your modwheel (or any of your other faders) to control the volume just the same if you like. That's not too hard. If you want to take advantage of Kontakts morphing script you'll need to put in some serious time and program adjusted patches using what samples Kontakt Factory has. I wouldn't spend that kind of time on it though as it still probably won't sound that great. Especially considering how much time you'll need to put in.

Either way, if you own Kontakt you should have the user manual and PDF documents that come with it. If not I recommend downloading them and reading through some of that stuff. You'll learn a lot more way quicker then waiting for responses on here. You can also try doing youtube searches for Kontakt programming. Lots out there.

Seriously though if you want it to sound good and have that level of expressiveness & control you're going to have to invest in better patches and libraries. A crap ton of programming goes into the good ones. If it were cheap AND easy everybody would be doing it.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #17
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
OMG

This is so confusing!!!
πŸ“ Reply

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