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Sound City - movie directed by Dave Grohl
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #151
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CrankyChris's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brill bedroom ➡️

Also, lest it not be noted, old footage of Stevie Nicks. Now, THAT'S analog. She was printed at +9 in her day, if you know what I mean.
What? I do not know what you mean, but I would like to know.

It sounds dirty, though.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #152
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstory ➡️
Sorry emit sweet- but this is a load of horsesh/t. Within a matter of years, people will be sick of the looping, manipulated, auto tuned drivel that is 80% of what's recorded now.
I stated that people have been looping and fixing vocals for 40 years. The Mellotron is 50 years old now. The first affordable looping machine if you didn't know. Pitch correction techniques have been around since the 70s. The difference is they were used tastefully

Reading through these posts I can tell who have been recording for years and who just got their first mbox interface under the Christmas tree last year and buy into anti technology propaganda on the internet.

Sure people will get sick of looping and negligible autotune just like they got sick of long hall reverb on toms, hairspray, spandex, moptops, flannel shirts, gated reverbed snare drums, backward tape effects, singing through megaphones. The theme here is everything gets overdone and then becomes cliche.

Despite misconceptions there are many may engineers using loops and pitch correction these days who do utilize it such a way that it is not overbearing and overdone. It is done with class. You don't know they are using it.

The theme here is all technology is fine as long as it's not abused. I think this "film" negatively portrays analog technology and live acts in the sense that it exploits it as some sort lost art. Which is a LIE. People still record analog everyday on Neves on Tridents on vintage APIs and play live into them. The difference is they don't feel the need to brag about it. They just go about their business and make records. And these same people will utilize quantizing or pitch correction as needed and tastefully and don't denounce it because they are not really dependent on it (hint)

I think the producer of this film is trying awful hard to prove how great lack of technology is. It's like a guy who brags about how tough he is then you see him get in a real fight and he runs away like a little school girl.

I'm confused because I see records made with analog gear and without computer technology all the time. This guy is trying way too hard to convey how good analog and playing live is. It's as if he is the one who has used protool, looped and used pitch correction all along and now has to divert attention somehow. It's sort of funny actually. He's just trying way to hard to prove something anyone who has a clue already knows. This movie is for people who listen to blink 182 and Brittany spears.

People who have played music and recorded for more than 10 years know how records are made and they still make them that way. They don't need a movie to portray a process they already know of and use regularly. This movie is for bedroom studio kids with protoold LE and an mbox. Noone needs to tell experienced engineers how records are made as if it is in the pats tense. This move is a lie

Chris Farley - YouTube
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Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #153
Audio X
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levon ➡️
Somehow I like everything that Dave Grohl does, he seems to be a cool guy.
I like a lot of what Grohl does as well... except for that Nirvana thing

He's hosting Chelsea Lately all this week.. tune in.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #154
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➡️
I think the producer of this film is trying awful hard to prove how great lack of technology is. It's like a guy who brags about how tough he is then you see him get in a real fight and he runs away like a little school girl.
Ok...If this isn't trolling then nothing is
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Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #155
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod ➡️
Ok...If this isn't trolling then nothing is
Well don't you think it's funny how he trys so hard to shove analog and playing live down everyone's throat? Between his grammy speech this film and all the anti-technology marketing babble behind his last record , it just seems odd to me. Why does a guy who has 300 million dollars waste his time trying to convince everyone that analog records are great and pitch correction is bad? Don't you think that's weird? Is he covering up something perhaps? Not to mention making analog records is much easier than making them on digital if you have a 2 million dollar studio. And he has 2 of them.

Personally I think the lonely suburban guy who makes a great sounding record with just a PC with protool an 8 channel interface, some plugins and a handful of mics is the real Audio hero. If that opinion is trolling then so be it. Anyone can be like this producer and buy a Neve and API desk, 4 studer a827 decks unlimited supply of vintage mics and outboard and hire Bruce Vig and record a great record. What is so noble about that? That's too easy. my gawd are you serious? is he serious?

Call me a fool or a troll but I'll swap the owner of Sound City my Dell PC with Cubase 4 and autotune 2.0, my Apogee Rosetta, My garage and my Vonexgo plugin collection for his Neve console, his studer tape machines and his rack of Pultecs, Eventides and Lexicons and his drum and control rooms. That's a fair trade don't ya think? even swap. I mean after all it's too easy to make a great record on computer so clearly it's worth more than all that hardware since it will save production costs and overhead in the long run, right?

unreal, again this movie is audio propaganda for Brink 182 and Averill Levine fans.

Seriously? who can't make a great record at a Studio with all that gear? Make Tool undertow on a gateway laptop with reaper and a beringer ada and get back to me, and tell me what is easier? analog with LFC and 2in or digital.

So either this movie is sort waving candy in a child's face (look at me I have a neve!!!)or its sort of like covering up the truth. Since the reality is, a person who makes outstanding digital recordings that can rival Neve and 2in production is the true audio god. This movie is like saying it's cooler to win the indy 500 with a Penske than it would be to win with a honda accord, that's the message I get. So call me troll but I think winning the indy 500 with honda civic is much more noble than winning with a professional race car. Same with recording. If you can make a record at home as good as what comes out of sound city (and people do everyday) then you are the audio superhero. If you make a good record at sound city you are just average since everyone makes at least a mediocre record there, not everyone can do that at home. It's much more difficult and takes much more talent. that is not trolling that is the truth. Y'all can romanticize but this movie is in poor taste and is an insult to those who slave over production using menial equipment and still get fine results.
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Old 5th February 2013
  #156
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Saw the movie and loved it! But to me it actually undercut its own message and reinforced my outlook that the method doesn't really matter, it's the end result. Cause they talked up all these ideals throughout the movie, but then at end showed that you can have all the amazing gear, the collaborative vibe, the live playing, the lauded producer, and some of the greatest songwriters and players alive... yet still just end up with a bunch of mediocre ass songs. Haha... I'm sure they sound great sonically, but that last bit was a lot of people I like making songs I don't really want to listen to. But I do love listening to a lot of songs on the first Foo Fighters record, which sounds rough as hell and had one dude doing everything!
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Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #157
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M.S.P.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➡️
Well don't you think it's funny how he trys so hard to shove analog and playing live down everyone's throat? Between his grammy speech this film and all the anti-technology marketing babble behind his last record , it just seems odd to me. Why does a guy who has 300 million dollars waste his time trying to convince everyone that analog records are great and pitch correction is bad? Don't you think that's weird? Is he covering up something perhaps? Not to mention making analog records is much easier than making them on digital if you have a 2 million dollar studio. And he has 2 of them.

Personally I think the lonely suburban guy who makes a great sounding record with just a PC with protool an 8 channel interface, some plugins and a handful of mics is the real Audio hero. If that opinion is trolling then so be it. Anyone can be like this producer and buy a Neve and API desk, 4 studer a827 decks unlimited supply of vintage mics and outboard and hire Bruce Vig and record a great record. What is so noble about that? That's too easy. my gawd are you serious? is he serious?

Call me a fool or a troll but I'll swap the owner of Sound City my Dell PC with Cubase 4 and autotune 2.0, my Apogee Rosetta, My garage and my Vonexgo plugin collection for his Neve console, his studer tape machines and his rack of Pultecs, Eventides and Lexicons and his drum and control rooms. That's a fair trade don't ya think? even swap. I mean after all it's too easy to make a great record on computer so clearly it's worth more than all that hardware since it will save production costs and overhead in the long run, right?

unreal, again this movie is audio propaganda for Brink 182 and Averill Levine fans.

Seriously? who can't make a great record at a Studio with all that gear? Make Tool undertow on a gateway laptop with reaper and a beringer ada and get back to me, and tell me what is easier? analog with LFC and 2in or digital.

So either this movie is sort waving candy in a child's face (look at me I have a neve!!!)or its sort of like covering up the truth. Since the reality is, a person who makes outstanding digital recordings that can rival Neve and 2in production is the true audio god. This movie is like saying it's cooler to win the indy 500 with a Penske than it would be to win with a honda accord, that's the message I get. So call me troll but I think winning the indy 500 with honda civic is much more noble than winning with a professional race car. Same with recording. If you can make a record at home as good as what comes out of sound city (and people do everyday) then you are the audio superhero. If you make a good record at sound city you are just average since everyone makes at least a mediocre record there, not everyone can do that at home. It's much more difficult and takes much more talent. that is not trolling that is the truth. Y'all can romanticize but this movie is in poor taste and is an insult to those who slave over production using menial equipment and still get fine results.
Uh Ok....

It might be best to agree to disagree with Daves opinions on recording in the movie and just move on...
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #158
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gear is cool's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I saw the trailer for this film and it looks very cool.

What the F is wrong with a cool rock doc about a great studio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➡️
Personally I think the lonely suburban guy

Now I have a clue...
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #159
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➡️
Despite misconceptions there are many may engineers using loops and pitch correction these days who do utilize it such a way that it is not overbearing and overdone. It is done with class. You don't know they are using it.
As others have pointed out, we all know it's done because the music is inhumanly perfected. It doesn't have to be an obvious effect in order for it to do damage. When so many songs you hear have more accurate timing and better vocal pitch than the best actual musicians, and you know that these people aren't close to the best, then you know it's being not just done but over done. The fact that many people may not hear it obviously being done make it even worse, because they don't even know how plastic it actually is.

Quote:
The theme here is all technology is fine as long as it's not abused.
But the problem is that almost everyone is abusing it. And these tools are just so much easier to use than trying to do something similar back in the day, that it's not remotely in the same universe. When it became vastly easier to just quantize something than actually play in time to begin with, the damage had begun, and it's been going down hill since.

And one way you can tell it's so out of hand is how aggressively so many people work to rationlize this stuff these days. What used to be a sign of the greed and shallowness of the record companies people now argue are tools for empowering the people.


Again, if people were honest about it, I wouldn't have so much trouble with it. But so few people are, either at the pro level hyper-perfecting already quite talented musicians or the bazzilloins of people putting out home made stuff that is vastly beyond their actual skill level without ever admitting it.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #160
Gear Nut
 
qvplite's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➡️
If you can make a record at home as good as what comes out of sound city (and people do everyday) then you are the audio superhero.
I haven't seen the film yet and I'm not sure what I'll think of it when I do -- I kind of sway between "analog rules" and "digital is great too"...

I'm curious to see what you think of the track I mixed more or less ITB in my living room last year... am I an audio super hero? Haha. I don't think so, but it's pretty decent at the same time. Let me know your thoughts.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #161
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Mertmo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I am so glad I saw Sound City before the existence of this ridiculous thread.

Congratulations to those who just couldn't resist taking the Gearslutz ride...
Well done
Old 5th February 2013
  #162
Gear Addict
 
AwTAC's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
A mellotron does not function on a loop.

John Titor wishes he could have trolled as expertly as this.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #163
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwTAC ➡️
A mellotron does not function on a loop.

thanks, Are you referring to the VST mellotron plugin? They actually made real mechanical ones in the 1960s.

I thought the action of a mechanical device which starts, cycles to an end position, resets to the start position and then continues, in an automated fashion; was called looping. If not it's certainly called cycling then. I'll have to amend my previous post. Thank you sir.
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Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #164
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvplite ➡️
I haven't seen the film yet and I'm not sure what I'll think of it when I do -- I kind of sway between "analog rules" and "digital is great too"...

I'm curious to see what you think of the track I mixed more or less ITB in my living room last year... am I an audio super hero? Haha. I don't think so, but it's pretty decent at the same time. Let me know your thoughts.
I think Economy is a killer song. I think if you worked with Bruce Vig at the Soundcity you could produce a fine album together.
Your vocals are every bit as sincere as Dave Grohl'ss or Kurt Cobain's. You are a better guitarist than both of them IMO.

nice work
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Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #165
Gear Addict
 
MattMoorman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I must've missed the first part of the movie that said, "This film was made for engineers, especially the forum members of Gearslutz. This is your new bible."

I just cannot relate to the negative reactions. It's not as dogmatic as some of you are making it out to be. It's a perspective of a successful musician(s) who has a lot of enthusiasm, energy, money, and successful friends. Strengthen your filters.

I like this post though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewig ➡️
you can have all the amazing gear, the collaborative vibe, the live playing, the lauded producer, and some of the greatest songwriters and players alive... yet still just end up with a bunch of mediocre ass songs. Haha... I'm sure they sound great sonically, but that last bit was a lot of people I like making songs I don't really want to listen to.
Dave Grohl seems really cool. Nirvanna was great, and have their place in 20th century culture and music. I couldn't care less about the Foo Fighters. So what? Didn't keep me from enjoying it and tapping some inspiration from it. I think that most people's taste is music is terrible. But it's also important that I remind myself that (somehow, even if, for example, you think that John Mayer's vocals are good) you're not wrong. That being said, there's a fine line to walk between concerning yourself with people and ideas that you don't agree with and being in a room full of people that you agree with.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #166
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewig ➡️
Saw the movie and loved it! But to me it actually undercut its own message and reinforced my outlook that the method doesn't really matter, it's the end result. Cause they talked up all these ideals throughout the movie, but then at end showed that you can have all the amazing gear, the collaborative vibe, the live playing, the lauded producer, and some of the greatest songwriters and players alive... yet still just end up with a bunch of mediocre ass songs. Haha... I'm sure they sound great sonically, but that last bit was a lot of people I like making songs I don't really want to listen to. But I do love listening to a lot of songs on the first Foo Fighters record, which sounds rough as hell and had one dude doing everything!
LOL so true !
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Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #167
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I personally just found it inspiring. The amount of musical heroes I just sat through and listened to them openly and candidly talk was pure gold for me. So what if Dave can afford this ****, he deserves it too, have you seen him live? ****ing brilliant is all I can say. This forum is called Gearsltuz and from the opening scene it was like browsing here but with visuals and commentary.

I say great work Dave, thanks for making a film about what we are all obsessed with semi main-stream. Hell maybe my wife might even get it coming from Dave (as we are Foo's fans). I have no complaints about this doco nor do I proclaim I have any right too, I just enjoyed it.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #168
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Kaoz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➡️
Bruce Vig
FFS stop calling him Bruce!
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Old 5th February 2013
  #169
181483
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertmo ➡️
I am so glad I saw Sound City before the existence of this ridiculous thread.

Congratulations to those who just couldn't resist taking the Gearslutz ride...
Well done
It was all my fault. I'm the one who bumped this thread. The coolest thing about this film is that impressionable young minds get to see how f'ing cool it really is to be a real artist in a real creative environment with nothing to lose. This nirvana can be achieved by anyone, regardless of skill or experience. I first got the bug when I re-arranged all the pep rally band horn parts during a high school basketball game, having everyone conspire against the band director so we could enjoy the horror on his face while he conducted, not knowing which punk-ass was making him look like a fool. Then moving on to the power of the 4-track cassette recorder, some straight edge musician friends, and letting creativity just go where it goes. That great energy is what is sadly missing in a lot of young people's lives today (it seems). Thanks to Dave for having the balls to get this film made. I hope he makes ten more.

-d
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #170
Lives for gear
 
CrankyChris's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewig ➡️
Saw the movie and loved it! But to me it actually undercut its own message and reinforced my outlook that the method doesn't really matter, it's the end result. Cause they talked up all these ideals throughout the movie, but then at end showed that you can have all the amazing gear, the collaborative vibe, the live playing, the lauded producer, and some of the greatest songwriters and players alive... yet still just end up with a bunch of mediocre ass songs. Haha... I'm sure they sound great sonically, but that last bit was a lot of people I like making songs I don't really want to listen to. But I do love listening to a lot of songs on the first Foo Fighters record, which sounds rough as hell and had one dude doing everything!
I think what a lot of people like about "analog" is that it required a talented and well rehearsed band who understood that there was no "fixing" it later.
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Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #171
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
My take is that technologies (computers and non-linear editing) have given people without much musical SKILL the ability to produce music. This is not necessarily a bad thing when someone with great musical ideas is able to produce them on their own. It is frustrating however to those people who have spent their whole lives refining the craft of performing music live. I also can relate to the theory that music has suffered from the LACK of collaborative performing that doesn't (and often can't) happen in most home studio settings.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #172
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertmo ➡️
I am so glad I saw Sound City before the existence of this ridiculous thread.

Congratulations to those who just couldn't resist taking the Gearslutz ride...
Well done
I saw the thread title in the list before seeing the movie and purposely avoided it for that reason, glad I did, sorry I started reading even after.

Great doc and a nod to Grohl for getting this done and I doubt he makes even one penny off this.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #173
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz ➡️
FFS stop calling him Bruce!
oops yeah, I always call Bruce Fairbairn.... Butch, and I call Butch.... Bruce
I'm not into the pop rock production scene, so I get the names confused.
Lordalge brothers names I always get mixed up too.
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Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #174
Gear Head
 
nerioplayground's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Analog vs Digital I'm tired of it.....

Great work from Grohl, it is the documentary that maybe everyone here in the slutz will do if they have the chance, I enjoy every single second of it, and please it is not about analog vs digital.

Stop rambling about this matter, every recording method has it's own goods and bads.

Thank you mr Grohl, btw the moment when Dave tell to Butch about telling to McCartney that he f**ked up the take, it is just hilarious.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #175
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➡️
Well don't you think it's funny how he trys so hard to shove analog and playing live down everyone's throat? Between his grammy speech this film and all the anti-technology marketing babble behind his last record , it just seems odd to me. Why does a guy who has 300 million dollars waste his time trying to convince everyone that analog records are great and pitch correction is bad? Don't you think that's weird? Is he covering up something perhaps? Not to mention making analog records is much easier than making them on digital if you have a 2 million dollar studio. And he has 2 of them.
I think you're being overly cynical about it I believe that he grew up making records on analogue in a garage somewhere and Grohl is now due a midlife crisis . I guess he just wants that feeling back;

"We are so rock and roll, I'm in a basement with my best friend whose a drummer and we're playing a really awesome song I wrote this afternoon, after a couple of beers and a BBQ."

Know what I mean? Where 'Wasting Light' is concerned, there will be additional pressure on him from his 'superiors' and from his fans to provide a top notch album, which I feel justifies the expensive outboard gear (API and Neve on the previous album I believe) and microphones.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right. I'm just saying, look at it from this point of view instead :P
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #176
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
There's a huge pro tools rig in the background and a click track blasting in Taylor's headphones
So it I doubt it was all done free form old school .
Still enjoyable though.
I remember working on that console a few times and it needed work!
Old 5th February 2013
  #177
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EricF's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I saw the movie last night.

Going in, I was expecting it to be more about the studio itself, which was a major part, but not really the foucs. The overall story seemed to be about this cool Neve console with a great history, how awesome Dave Grohl is for buying it from Sound City as they reached the end of their existence, and all the cool people he got to hang out with because of it. Being critical, it comes across as a bit self-serving.

There seems to be a lot of feathers ruffled by his comments about "analog good, digital bad". I didn't quite get the message that way. To me, the message was about being authentic and not relying on technology to make up for a lack of musical/artistic skills at a time when it's so easy to do just that. I can see how some people might take the way it was presented as a bit of elitest snobbery.

Overall, I thought the movie was really enjoyable, and I'll be watching it again.

Then again, I'm kind of a Dave Grohl fan, and I think the Foo's "Wasting Light" album is full of great songs that sound better than any of the previous Foo's albums.
Old 5th February 2013
  #178
Moderator
 
Oroz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What a great movie. Seen it two times by now and will see it again for sure (several times). I really enjoyed it, big time. A must see for every one that's involved in the music. Congrats to every one involved in the movie, awesome job.
Old 5th February 2013 | Show parent
  #179
Gear Maniac
 
toine6's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➡️
I thought the action of a mechanical device which starts, cycles to an end position, resets to the start position and then continues, in an automated fashion; was called looping. If not it's certainly called cycling then. I'll have to amend my previous post. Thank you sir.
No, it didn't loop or cycle (if I'm understanding you right), it played the length of the tape and then you had to rewind. I think there were a couple late models made, as requested by Keith Emerson or someone like that, that did in fact LOOP continuously. It's all on Google somewhere, I'm sure. So you maybe only typically had like 40 seconds per key, and then it ran out.
Old 5th February 2013
  #180
Gear Head
 
Left to starve's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hoped to see more then a one little mentioning of kyuss , maybe some footage of them recording sky valley or something like the rage against the machine part which was cool. oh well.
The best part of it for me was the jam with grohl josh homme and trent and how everything just came together when josh switched to the bass and Trent played the organ.
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