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Sound City - movie directed by Dave Grohl
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #91
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Don't get soooo excited by early morning typo.
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Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #92
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
Musicians playing together in a room is great of course, but it would be wrong to assume classic albums were all made that way.
Plenty of great music has been made, part by part, one person at a time. Stevie Wonder played a drum part on his own, then overdubbed Rhodes, then added other parts and musicians as he went along. Same with Paul McCartney, even in The Beatles days. Ringo got fed up waiting for his moment, went home, and Macca ended up playing drums on his own song.
I worked on recordings that some people cherish, and I laid down the drums after everything else on the recording was finished, playing on my own. I did a session on a hit album where the producer needed the drums to be perfectly in time, but the guitarist was ahead, and bassist behind, so I had everything but lead vocal removed from my headphone mix.
This was all back in the 1980's.
From the 70's onwards it was routine to not know all the parts of a song when recording. A basic arrangement was worked out, maybe drums and bass were tracked, then maybe edited as an arrangement evolved. No one knew what the guitar parts would be, or the keyboards, sometimes vocals. The recordings were built up from a basic foundation, like an artist creating a painting. Even Beatles albums were made like this.
Before digital, drums were beat corrected by having slivers of tape removed from the 24 track tape.
All fair points.
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #93
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't think there is a lack of human involvement. I think human's making music are thinking differently.
There is a (somewhat natural) tendency towards perfection. This is fuelling a lot of the sample replacement, auto-tuning, and audio editing.
I've asked some of the great producers and studio engineers what their favourite recordings are, and it's almost always some scrappy early rock record, or Motown or Muscle Shoals. The song speeds up, the bass is out of tune and the drum sound 'basic'. Probably a lot of those things are what makes a recording unique to the moment. Nowadays all those things are being corrected, leading to a uniform, soundalike body of work in contemporary releases.
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #94
Lives for gear
 
Ephi82's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
Musicians playing together in a room is great of course, but it would be wrong to assume classic albums were all made that way.
Plenty of great music has been made, part by part, one person at a time. Stevie Wonder played a drum part on his own, then overdubbed Rhodes, then added other parts and musicians as he went along. Same with Paul McCartney, even in The Beatles days. Ringo got fed up waiting for his moment, went home, and Macca ended up playing drums on his own song.

This was all back in the 1980's.
From the 70's onwards it was routine to not know all the parts of a song when recording. A basic arrangement was worked out, maybe drums and bass were tracked, then maybe edited as an arrangement evolved. No one knew what the guitar parts would be, or the keyboards, sometimes vocals. The recordings were built up from a basic foundation, like an artist creating a painting. Even Beatles albums were made like this.
Before digital, drums were beat corrected by having slivers of tape removed from the 24 track tape.
ya, so what?????

The argument isn't against individual tracking,but its for ensemble playing. Are you saying there is no value in that, or are you just bragging?

" I worked on recordings that some people cherish, and I laid down the drums after everything else on the recording was finished, playing on my own. I did a session on a hit album where the producer needed the drums to be perfectly in time, but the guitarist was ahead, and bassist behind, so I had everything but lead vocal removed from my headphone mix."

Cool, congratulations, but what's the relevance to Sound City?
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Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #95
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Ephi82's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 ➑️
ya, so what?????

The argument isn't against individual tracking,but its for ensemble playing. Are you saying there is no value in that, or are you just bragging?

" I worked on recordings that some people cherish, and I laid down the drums after everything else on the recording was finished, playing on my own. I did a session on a hit album where the producer needed the drums to be perfectly in time, but the guitarist was ahead, and bassist behind, so I had everything but lead vocal removed from my headphone mix."

Cool, congratulations, but what's the relevance to Sound City?
I mean that with all due respect to your talent and experience, and not a knock against you, but I am struggling to understand how its relevant to Sound City
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Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #96
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Sound City started a conversation. I think what chrisso is doing is adding to it (by showing another side of the coin).
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Old 3rd February 2013
  #97
Lives for gear
 
Empire Prod's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The editing that was typical in the past is not anywhere near to even being in the same universe as the type of editing that is typical of todays productions. To equate the two periods is either a reflection of ones ignorance of how things were done in the past, how they are done today or both.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #98
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 ➑️
ya, so what?????

.....
Cool, congratulations, but what's the relevance to Sound City?
Settle down.
I'm just adding to the discussion here, based on personal experience.
I'm not arguing about the film, I'm commenting on some of the points being made in this thread.
I think ensemble playing has it's merit, but I don't think less ensemble playing is the leading cause of perceived staleness, or lack of quality in contemporary music (note I said "perceived").
Historic recordings that people cherish have been constructed part by part, over maybe even a year, and of course historic recordings that people also cherish have been recorded as a live take with everyone playing together.
I don't see ensemble playing as the missing link if people are claiming music was better in 'the good ole days'.
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Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #99
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tape_attack!!!'s Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
can someone please explain me why the studio had to close down?
the former studio owner recounts that he bought the neve for 74k in a time where he paid 38k for a house. and a few years later they made thier first million with the tom petty and the heartbreakers record!
how could a studio, that did the biggest bands over decades go broke???
what was the problem?
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #100
Lives for gear
 
Ephi82's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
Settle down.
I'm just adding to the discussion here, based on personal experience.
I'm not arguing about the film, I'm commenting on some of the points being made in this thread.
I think ensemble playing has it's merit, but I don't think less ensemble playing is the leading cause of perceived staleness, or lack of quality in contemporary music (note I said "perceived").
Historic recordings that people cherish have been constructed part by part, over maybe even a year, and of course historic recordings that people also cherish have been recorded as a live take with everyone playing together.
I don't see ensemble playing as the missing link if people are claiming music was better in 'the good ole days'.
yup I was riled up! More by other posters than you! I apologize for coming on too strong. Understand the points you made.
Old 4th February 2013
  #101
PDC
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Just because they got a check once, doesn't mean that was profit. Just because they had a bunch of artists booking doesn't mean that the studio got paid either.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #102
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Studios generally charge a daily rate. So their income is the same, whether an album sells nothing, or sells millions. Of course studios become more popular and therefore busy the more hit records are made there.
Most big studios are struggling. The music industry, for various reasons, is in a financial squeeze. Many records are made in 'home' studios.
McCartney has one, Butch Vig has one, Dave Grohl has one.
Instead of booking out studios for months, many artists are booking studios for a few days, or a couple of weeks, to record some drums, or an orchestral session, or for mixing.
Old 4th February 2013
  #103
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timtoonz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I still want to know what the "real" meaning of 'Predator' is....

:-)
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Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #104
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 ➑️
I think you are reading way too much into the message of the movie. It was a history of an old funky studio and the way records were made back then. I happen to like it, if you dont, why keep hanging in the thread. Go away!

It also celebrates the value and the fun of a band playing together in the studio to create music that is captured as it is being played. Yes, compression, and reverbs, delays and samples (ie technology) were used to enhance this, as technology does today, but the point is ensemble playing, not technology. Musicians inspiring each other. Get it? (probably not)

Then you go on the say this:

"I don't see much honor in that. Quantizing aside, making a record analog is much easier than on digital. High quality Digital has no forgiveness, what goes in comes out. With a Neve desk and analog decks, you are inherently forgiven both dynamically and with matters of analog timbre and Class A musicality."

What an elitist and pretentious position to take!

You are saying that the artists of yesterday, because the recording technology was not as "accurate" in sound reproduction as today's, could still make good records, easier, because the analog medium was more forgiving and provided for more "musicality".

First let me say that you are clearly out of your mind about the capabilities of older artists but second, you are making the argument that you seem opposed to:

older recording technology clearly has attributes that appeal to musicians in that it can be used to impart a certain musicality on its own, hence why Dave celebrated that old Neve desk in the movie.

What is wrong with that? Do you object to the sound of a vintage Les Paul? Do you object to the tone of a Blackface Deluxe Reverb? How about an old violin called a Stradivarius? A Neumann u47?
you misunderstood me, Bands still make records everyday in studios like these records at SC were made. I'm just stating there is also nothing wrong with making records "the new way" either. See your point of view above is the exact misconception I'm talking about. I work out of 3 different studios, all have analog decks, desks and analog outboard as well as PT, Logic etc. In the right hands records will get made properly. Properly is not any one particular way however. Properly relates to the sound not the methodology behind capturing the sound.

I think you fell right into trap of what this movies false premise is, and it's intention of brainwashing impressionable viewers.
Lot's of studios have Neve consoles, have fender amps Les Pauls, u47s 2in decks. These tools hardly make records, Artists make records, this is the point you miss and why this movie sends a bogus misguided message.

There is nothing wrong with making a record solely overdubbing into protools with virtual instruments. as long as the end result sounds good. There is something wrong with making records on Neve consoles and on 2in tape if the end result sounds bad. Personally I would rather listen to a Trevor Horn production made soley on computer as opposed to listening to some of the crap you hear made on Neves and Studers. It's all about the talent behind the controls it not the controls themselves that matter. This movie sends a false message that only good music can be made in a dirty dark studio as long as it has a Neve and a lava lamp. This is not true for everyone. It may have worked for these every but it doesn't work for every artist.

But again making a recording live to 2 in and analog desk it probably the easiest way to make a great sounding record.
I don't think what this film conveys is inaccurate in the sense that records are still made this way everyday. This is not something that only occurred at soundcity in in 1993
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Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #105
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
Musicians playing together in a room is great of course, but it would be wrong to assume classic albums were all made that way.
Plenty of great music has been made, part by part, one person at a time. Stevie Wonder played a drum part on his own, then overdubbed Rhodes, then added other parts and musicians as he went along. Same with Paul McCartney, even in The Beatles days. Ringo got fed up waiting for his moment, went home, and Macca ended up playing drums on his own song.
I worked on recordings that some people cherish, and I laid down the drums after everything else on the recording was finished, playing on my own. I did a session on a hit album where the producer needed the drums to be perfectly in time, but the guitarist was ahead, and bassist behind, so I had everything but lead vocal removed from my headphone mix.
This was all back in the 1980's.
From the 70's onwards it was routine to not know all the parts of a song when recording. A basic arrangement was worked out, maybe drums and bass were tracked, then maybe edited as an arrangement evolved. No one knew what the guitar parts would be, or the keyboards, sometimes vocals. The recordings were built up from a basic foundation, like an artist creating a painting. Even Beatles albums were made like this.
Before digital, drums were beat corrected by having slivers of tape removed from the 24 track tape.

great post , this is my point of view also.
I can tell by reading others' posts here they read a little too many Dave Grohl articles on SOS or cream magazine.

Fact of the matter is records have been made by overdubbing and digital and computers for 30 years. On the flip side, Bands still make records live in the studio everyday too if that's their thing. 40 years ago artists also made records by doing all overdubs as you stated. There are many ways to make a record.

This whole idea that everyone quantizes and uses pitch correction is a total misconception. It's just plain wrong. It's also wrong to think records 30 years ago were not done cheating either. I have to say this movie is total propaganda and is inaccurate to at least the US music scene.

Its one rinky dink studio where 4 or 5 classic records were made. Personally I think the Metallica records made there are a joke sound wise. Also I do think records like RATM first record were not recorded solely at SC as other like Tool were tracked at many studios.
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Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #106
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, except I doubt the film is a negative conspiracy aimed at anyone impressionable.
And I don't know why you are determined to persuade anyone it's a 'rinky dink studio' with an overblown reputation.
Having worked in many, many studios, often the disheveled, divey studios feel the most inspiring, while the biggest names feel too corporate, or intimidating.
Many incredible albums were made at Island Studios (Basing Street):
http://po4ep.s3.amazonaws.com/111/l/20930419.jpg
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #107
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
Yeah, except I doubt the film is a negative conspiracy aimed at anyone impressionable.
And I don't know why you are determined to persuade anyone it's a 'rinky dink studio' with an overblown reputation.
Having worked in many, many studios, often the disheveled, divey studios feel the most inspiring, while the biggest names feel too corporate, or intimidating.
Many incredible albums were made at Island Studios (Basing Street):
http://po4ep.s3.amazonaws.com/111/l/20930419.jpg
Well I think I am just trying to convey that SC doesn't exactly have a certified plaque of DSOTM or BIB on the Wall. Some pretty mediocre recording done there if you are realistic.

As far "conspiracy aimed at anyone impressionable", well if you read some of the posts here I think you'll find some of those post are proof of my comment. However I may be wrong that the producers of the film have an agenda, certainly some impressionable minds have proven they are looking at his this film and thinking the digital age is some culprit and current music is a victim of it all. Which is wrong.
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Old 4th February 2013
  #108
Gear Maniac
 
Golden Frog's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I watched it and liked it. I'm wondering if they used high quality versions of the songs that were not recorded on Sound City? For example, they played Here I go again by Whitesnake, like showing how other modern studios were taking them out of business, and the quality of Sound City's songs vs. the others were huge.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #109
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➑️
Well I think I am just trying to convey that SC doesn't exactly have a certified plaque of DSOTM or BIB on the Wall.
After The Goldrush, Rumours, Damn The Torpedoes.......
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #110
Lives for gear
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➑️
Well I think I am just trying to convey that SC doesn't exactly have a certified plaque of DSOTM or BIB on the Wall. Some pretty mediocre recording done there if you are realistic.
Everyone with a clue disagrees with you.

At least you're consistent though.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #111
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Grohl & co did a live all star sound city band show Friday night in town.
A lot of the key players in the movie jammed.
Stevie nicks,cheap trick,fogerty, Springfield etc etc etc
killed it.
Old 4th February 2013
  #112
Gear Addict
 
philosi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Awesome ****ing movie! Just watched it twice in a row. Thank God someone out there still gives a ****.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #113
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
After The Goldrush, Rumours, Damn The Torpedoes.......
Rumours was not recorded at Sound City it was done at a studio called the Record Plant in the Bay Area.
also Criteria Studios in FLA and at Wally Heider Studios.
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Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #114
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz ➑️
Everyone with a clue disagrees with you.

At least you're consistent though.

I just don't hear all that much good sounding stuff recorded there
it's overall very rough. I like the Tom Petty stuff tracked there
but that's not exactly produced music. Decent raw rock record.
Again this place is not a par with oceanway or Sunset, ELL or Caribu
as far as musical importance
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Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #115
Gear Addict
 
philosi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The movie tells a story about the love of music. It is filled with heart, something so much of todays music is missing.
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Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #116
Lives for gear
 
gear is cool's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➑️

I have to say this movie is total propaganda and is inaccurate to at least the US music scene.
.

OK, you've said it over and over and over and one more time just to be what, right - really - OK you are RIGHT- feel better now.

Dang dude maybe next time Dave give you a comment card on what YOU thought of the movie you can fill it out in BOLD letters.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #117
Lives for gear
 
Hypnotic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz ➑️
Everyone with a clue disagrees with you.

At least you're consistent though.
I disagree with him too, and I have no clue.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #118
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➑️
Rumours was not recorded at Sound City it was done at a studio called the Record Plant in the Bay Area.
also Criteria Studios in FLA and at Wally Heider Studios.
'Never Going Back Again' was recorded at Sound City.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #119
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➑️
Again this place is not a par with oceanway or Sunset, ELL or Caribu
as far as musical importance
Which is obviously why Paul McCartney (and all the others) decided to get involved with this project.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #120
Lives for gear
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
Which is obviously why Paul McCartney (and all the others) decided to get involved with this project.
Let alone the fact that one of the biggest albums of the past 30 years was recorded there, but emitsweet seems determined to ignore the facts.

Totally not worth the effort dude. It's either trolling or stupidity, either way it's not worth the time.
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